Sell me on Swordsmasters of Hoeth and Chariots

[demonwalker]

So as long as I've played HE, I have never felt like I would prefer Swordsmasters over any other units. They have good stats compered to White Lions and Phoenix Guard, but I feel like they don't have any where near the survivablity of the Guard or the killing power of White Lions. The S6 I feel is always better than an extra attack.

As for Chariots, I've just never had good experiences with Chariots at all. The Skycutter is occasionally decent, but I can never justify taking any chariot over a few more of something else. What tactics should I be using for these units?

[Ladril Caledor]

A huge advantage of Swordmasters is how well they deal with rear and flank charges. I feel they can be a good unit with the right characters and magic items buffing them up. Good example is an Anointed with Crown of Command and a High Archmage with Book of Hoeth. Also run less ranks and wider, like 3x7 to make the most of extra attacks. It's a lot of points but you can get the best elements of the Phoenix Guard and White Lions along with the Swordmasters own inherent strengths by running them this way.

They are also pretty awesome in small cheap units, like 1x6. They can either be used as chaff, flank chargers for combat res, or (most commonly) they draw fire away from your main units in the shooting or magic phase, as despite being cheap they are seen as a juicy target and a threat.

As for chariots, I own one and I love the model but I find it hard to get into my lists. Seems like there are better options for the same price. I'm open to ideas though.

[GrinningB@est]

+1 to using Swordmasters as small units. They can kill chaff units that charge them before the other unit gets to strike, are small enough to sacrifice if you need to, and are fabulous on a flank charge. Have you read the tactica on Lion Darts? It's a similar idea but is effective over a wider frontage.

Chariots are very similar, this applies to all 3 types available to High Elves, but my favorite is the Tiranoc due to cheapness and bows (more on that later). I'm a beastmen player too, and love my chariots. Part of the issue I believe you're having is the elf mentality- everything is expensive, therefore valuable. That's fine if you're talking about 20 White Lions, but doesn't apply to a chariot that only weighs in at a cost of just over 5 White Lions. A lone chariot is a chaff unit with some limited combat potential. How do you use it then?

Unless you're worried about fast cav or fliers getting behind you, a lone chariot doesn't really belong in the center of your battle line. It can't march, so is actually slower than your infantry units, so you won't be getting it in the way of much (unless you're also running a light council or shooty list) and sitting back). Therefore it goes on a flank. From there, it guards the flank from basically everything besides a main combat unit (defined as 250+ points, 2 ranks or more, and monster cav), and can come from behind to clear chaff. Even monsters have to pay attention to S5 auto hits. Additionally, if the unit you're running it with (which can be a cav unit, due to m9 swifstride) needs a little boost in combat, you can even put it into the front of an enemy unit as it gets full attacks on the unit just by going corner to corner. A lone chariot is a powerful, flexible unit that is useful in both friendly and competitive environments.

Then there's the units of chariots. Obviously points dependent, but I highly suggest you go all in for 3. That's a unit that anything has to take notice of. 11 impact hits on average auto hitting. It helps for me that I like to run lore of beasts, either on a scroll caddy or as my main caster. A single wyssans and that unit wipes things out, I'm a fan even without it. The unit does have limitations though, if part of your battle line it needs to be lined up across from something it can beat on the charge (which it IS likely to get) as it is not very maneuverable, going in on a corner only gives it impact hits & attacks from one chariot, and it CANNOT go into the front of a horde- not that much in the HE list is too pleased to do that. All that said, my favorite place for the unit is still on the flank. It will control a flank completely. Anything that would shrug off it's impact hits is probably in the center of your opponents line (and if it's not, ok, sacrifice the chariots and sweep the rest of your army through whats left and then take out that big nasty unit later). And you really don't have to worry about the chariots getting re-directed or chaff'd up, sine they have 6 bow shots and can force panic checks on small units, especially in conjunction with any archer units you may field.

Some people will tell you that they're too vulnerable to shooting. They are vulnerable, but they're T4 with a 5+, which is pretty decent by elf standards. And don't forget, if they're shooting at the chariots, they're not shooting at your war machine hunters, or your white lions, or your cav bus or whatever.

I'm sure you can tell, I'm a fan of chariots. They likely won't win a tournament for you, but are lots of fun.

[demonwalker]

Hmm...Chariots seem like more of a fun thing then for elves. I'm testing out a unit of Swordsmasters in a 16k point game now, but it likely won't do anything (Forgot to deploy it like a moron ) so I may be testing it in several lists. Something I am quickly realizing though...I have absolutely no clue how to use cav models. The Reavers I get on using them for redirecting and other shenanigans, but Dragon Princes and Silver Helms I'm just clueless. Any help on those? So far I've been running SH in a 5 wide 3 deep and DP 5x4. Is this a good, standard way of running them? I tend to fight against horde armies if that helps.

[SpellArcher]

I've come very late to the party but I just took Swordmasters to a tournament and they rocked. 19 with full command and World Dragon, which was fantastic (funnily enough!). Lvl4 High and BSB in the unit. They may not stand up to ETC-levels of badassery but they can deal with most stuff just fine.

Oh and a General in a chariot too.

[Ladril Caledor]

I'd like to hear more about the general in a chariot. What equipment? Tactics? Performance? It's something I've never tried or seen but would love to give it a go.

[SpellArcher]

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=35247

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