1250 Points - no comp but friendly game

[Mandavar]

Hi!

I will play 2 short games against a friend of mine next weekend. We will use 1250 points armies, without comp, but gentlemen approach. I am not sure if we will use Khaine Magic, but thats not so important.

My opponent will most probably play at least once with Dwarfs and maybe Bretons or Skaven for the second game. He could also bring WoodElves or Khemri, but thats not very likely.

I have a bit of experience playing this point range with WoC, but I never before played High Elves in this range. So I do not want to take WoC or one of my other armies, but would want to field 2 different HE armies on that day. One I have already found I think, feel free to comment:

Loremaster, General, Sword of Might, Meerwyrmshield ---> 265
Noble, BSB, Elven Steed with Barding, Two Handed Sword, HA, Shield, Starlance, Golden Crown, Dragonhelm ---> 170

5 Reavers, Bows --> 85

9 Silverhelms, Shields FC ---> 237
21 White Lions FC, Banner of the World Dragon ---> 353

2 RBT ---> 140

Sum: 1250

Solid Block with General, BSB in Cav, 2 RBT against Caff and Multiwounds, Reavers for Movement.

Any Idea for a second list which should be totally different? I thought about Monstermash, but points are really tight. I have a nice Gamezone Noble on Eagle model which I have not used yet, maybe something around that? An alternative would be to go for max-Body-Count. Core with Infantry/Bows, some Chariots in Special?

Best regards
Var

[Eirik]

Some people do grumble about BotWD, though against those races I think you're in the clear, as it basically functions as protection against war machines.

Heck, it seems like a solid list even in a competitive game.

[Mandavar]

BotWD is okay for us, the new Dwarves also have some Combos which hurt a lot. And you are right, against his Warmachines it is very important.

What I meant with "without comp, but Gentlemen Approach" was that we wanted to try some things normaly not seen in small lists, without going totaly over board.

Concerning the first list, I am thinking about ditching a RBT for an Eagle and with the 20 points made available by that I could use an Eagle BSB Noble with Reaver Bow/Potion of Strength and Charmed Shield. I think against Dwarves that might be worse, but I would like to use the model.

Any Idea what other list to try? I thought about building a list around a Lvl4 Shadow Archmage in Bowmen, or if it makes sense to use an Annoited on Frostphoenix. With Dwarves in mind, the Shadow Archmage might be the better idea ..

Best regards,
Var

[Mandavar]

So, I have now 4 lists for tomorrow, my enemies will be Woodelves and Dwarfs.

List 1 as above:
Loremaster, General, Sword of Might, Meerwyrmshield ---> 265
Noble, BSB, Elven Steed with Barding, Two Handed Sword, HA, Shield, Starlance, Golden Crown, Dragonhelm ---> 170
5 Reavers, Bows --> 85
9 Silverhelms, Shields FC ---> 237
21 White Lions, FC, Banner of the World Dragon ---> 353
2 RBT ---> 140

List 2 as variant:
Loremaster, General, Sword of Might, Meerwyrmshield ---> 265
Noble, BSB, Great Eagle, Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Charmed Shield, Lance, Heavy Armor, Lion Cloak ---> 209
5 Reavers, Bows --> 85
9 Silverhelms, Shields FC ---> 237
19 White Lions, FC, Banner of the World Dragon ---> 327
1 RBT ---> 70
1 Eagle ---> 50

List 3 as real alternative list:
Archmage, Lvl 4, Lore of Shadows, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation ---> 320
Noble, BSB, Heavy Armor, Sword of Might, Shield of Merwyrm ---> 134
18 Archers, Musician ---> 190
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Musician ---> 125
20 White Lions, FC, Banner of the World Dragon ---> 340
2 RBT ---> 140

List 4 - fun list, pseudo Monstermash:
Prince, Elven Steed with Barding, Dragon Armor, TOTS, Ogre Blade, Golden Crown, Enchanted Shield ---> 257
Dragon Mage, Dragon Armor, Charmed Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Dispel Scroll ---> 430
5 Reavers, Bows --> 85
9 Silverhelms, Shields FC ---> 237
1 Frostheart Phoenix ---> 240

We will see what I will play against which enemy, maybe we throw dice .

[Eirik]

I got what you meant by 'no comp', I was talking about a competitive game in contrast to you saying it was friendly

In general, eagles are one of the weaker units in our book and bolt throwers are one of the strongest. At competitive events, the main reason a player is not taking 4 RBTs is that they are restricted by comp. Eagles serve best as re-directors, but are less relevant with the advent of cheap core reavers.

So if you want to trade RBT for an eagle, It might work to try something new and fun, but not to make a more competitive list. Against a decent dwarf player you are unlikely to get a charge off on the war-machines easily, even with an eagle. And once the charge lands, the eagle is almost as like to die as to take out the machine.

List 3 is closest to what I would choose. I tend to prefer Archmage over Loremaster in terms of raw power, I like to have a few archers (against dwarves a heavier focus on archers or cav are probably equally usable), and who doesn't love shadow against war machine heavy I2 armies?

L4 will probably be the most chaotic and fun, but you might be getting into the 'too crazy' zone. Of course, if your opponent takes 3 cannons, you may be in for a bad time .

But yeah, I would suggest 3 or 4 and suggest against 2 since 1 is better and 4 is more fun.

[Mandavar]

Thank you for the comments, and I think they are correct too.

The only comment I have concerns List2, I did ditch the RBT for an eagle to get points for the "improved" BSB Noble on Eagle with Reaver Bow. So basically I do not loose much shooting power, but needed some points and did not want to weaken the White Lions. So I am not sure if List 2 is really that much weaker. But If taken purely against Dwarves you may still be right, Charmed Shield and RW3+/1+ can only do so much against Shooting. And you are right Eagle against Dwarfen Warmachine never ended well for me in the past.
But I never used my Gamezone Noble on Eagle before, so I might choose the List just because of that. Would you advice to drop the Eagle in the Rare section to buff the White Lions more?

List 2 as variant, no Eagle:
Loremaster, General, Sword of Might, Meerwyrmshield ---> 265
Noble, BSB, Great Eagle(all Upgrades), Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Charmed Shield, Lance, Heavy Armor, Lion Cloak ---> 224
5 Reavers, Bows --> 85
9 Silverhelms, Shields FC ---> 237
22 White Lions, FC, Banner of the World Dragon ---> 366
1 RBT ---> 70

Basically I took the 50 Points and buffed the Eagle from the Noble and added 3 White Lions.

I think List 4 will be the most fun, but a SunDragon is not a very impressive Monster, the game might be over very fast .

List 1 and 2 feature the Loremaster because for small games he is a bit better than in bigger games. So when to Play him, if not for this Point range?

[Eirik]

Really the loremaster is a ton of fun and I often play her specifically for that reason. And it's not fair to say she isn't as good as the archmage since I'm not on a high enough level of play to say so, but I think I do see the archmage in more pro tourney lists. Go with whatever you think you will enjoy for spellcaster, because they're both viable.

Now that I notice you added reaver bow from list 1 to list 2 that does make up for the loss of shooting. Both list 2s you've presented here could work.