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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 3:45 pm 
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So, im posting this so more experienced players may give their thoughts about the overall idea that I've got for the army.

The Army

Lords
Lore master of Hoeth with Dispel scroll, Khaines ring, reaver bow. 6+ ward
Lvl 4 archmage High magic Book of hoeth, 4+ ward

Heroes
Noble BSB BotWD
Noble on Griffon, Star lance, shield of merwyn, ironcurse icon (warmachine hunter)

Core
20 Archers (chipper)
40 LSG in horde formation (anvil)
2x5 Reavers with bow&spear (chaff)

Special
6 Dragon Princes With Rampagers standard (reroll failed charge) (steamroller/flanker)
30 Swordmasters ( Hammer)
Lion Chariot of Chrace ( supporting)

Rare
2x ECBT

I play an defensive list where i try to shoot away as much as possible and then flank/rear the biggest threats with my LSG as the anvil. Spamming high magic to keep an ward on the lsg/swordmasters.

Im using these units mostly because I started with an IoB and added units afterwards, in retrospect I would have used Phoenix guards and White lions instead of LSG and Swordmasters, but this will have to make due.

English is not my first language and I am sorry for any instances of bad grammar or misspelling.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:46 pm 
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I like your lists, but I think it would have trouble being competitive. What do you mean by 'competitive'? You probably won't be winning big tournaments with this list, but you should be able to win some games against the players at your local gaming store.

My advice might not be useful if you don't have all the right models, but I don't think you need to go out and buy many new models unless you really want to. LSG and Swordmasters aren't the most competitive units, but you can still win games with them. You might do better if you go and buy 4 boxes of silver helms, but you can improve just as much by playing a lot of games and learning how to move your units.

Silver helms are considered especially strong in the recent book. People like to take them in small units (5 or 6) to act as flankers and threats. They also like to take them in bigger units (10-16) to place characters in them.

If you could replace your LSG with silver helms, I think you would be more competitive. These days, S3 infantry are considered weak in combat. I wouldn't think of 40 LSG as being an anvil, I would think of them more like a unit of archers. They will only be able to survive in fights against enemy chaff. Not that there is anything wrong with having lots of archers.

Where are you putting the BSB? The swordmaster's banner bearer is able to hold the BotWD. Then the noble can take magic items, and the banner can't be removed simply by killing the noble. You could give the noble some combat gear if he didn't have to carry the BotWD, such as Armor of Caledor and a Greatweapon.

A few more small points
* Try Razor Standard instead of Rampager's Standard on the knights. They need to hit harder more than they need to reroll charges.
* Most people also consider 4 ECBT to be very good in any competitive list, so grab 2 more if you have them :)
* Where are you putting the mages? Give the best wardsaves to any with the swordmasters, and less protection to anyone in the LSG
* I think the Reaver bow is weak on the Loremaster, who only has BS 4, give it to the noble who you can remove BotWD from, since he has BS 6
* Instead of the bow, you can improve the Loremaster's armor with a dragon helm

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Ah, Floorhammer. A time honored tradition. Sadly, I no longer play since my brother tripped and right-angled the spears of a 15-man regiment.
-Original Dragon Prince, July 2011


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Location: ireland
noble on griffon cannot use the shield of the merwyrm as mounted models don't get parry saves, give it to the loremaster instead. if he is in the unit with the archmage he can get a 3++ parry then.
I would also give him the book of hoeth, you can 2 dice a lot of spells then with him.

give your bsb dragon armour, which starts him with a 6++ and can be increased by high magic.

play a test game and come back to us :-)

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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:13 am 
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I agree with Sparky

An Enchanted shield on the griffon noble instead will give him the armor he needs.

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Ah, Floorhammer. A time honored tradition. Sadly, I no longer play since my brother tripped and right-angled the spears of a 15-man regiment.
-Original Dragon Prince, July 2011


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:52 am 
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Eirik wrote:
I like your lists, but I think it would have trouble being competitive. What do you mean by 'competitive'? You probably won't be winning big tournaments with this list, but you should be able to win some games against the players at your local gaming store.

My advice might not be useful if you don't have all the right models, but I don't think you need to go out and buy many new models unless you really want to. LSG and Swordmasters aren't the most competitive units, but you can still win games with them. You might do better if you go and buy 4 boxes of silver helms, but you can improve just as much by playing a lot of games and learning how to move your units.

Silver helms are considered especially strong in the recent book. People like to take them in small units (5 or 6) to act as flankers and threats. They also like to take them in bigger units (10-16) to place characters in them.

If you could replace your LSG with silver helms, I think you would be more competitive. These days, S3 infantry are considered weak in combat. I wouldn't think of 40 LSG as being an anvil, I would think of them more like a unit of archers. They will only be able to survive in fights against enemy chaff. Not that there is anything wrong with having lots of archers.

Where are you putting the BSB? The swordmaster's banner bearer is able to hold the BotWD. Then the noble can take magic items, and the banner can't be removed simply by killing the noble. You could give the noble some combat gear if he didn't have to carry the BotWD, such as Armor of Caledor and a Greatweapon.

A few more small points
* Try Razor Standard instead of Rampager's Standard on the knights. They need to hit harder more than they need to reroll charges.
* Most people also consider 4 ECBT to be very good in any competitive list, so grab 2 more if you have them :)
* Where are you putting the mages? Give the best wardsaves to any with the swordmasters, and less protection to anyone in the LSG
* I think the Reaver bow is weak on the Loremaster, who only has BS 4, give it to the noble who you can remove BotWD from, since he has BS 6
* Instead of the bow, you can improve the Loremaster's armor with a dragon helm


Thanks alot for the pointers, but I'd like to keep the models i've got for economical and i like to have an infantery-heavy army as I play defensive. To clarify, i dont expect this army to win any competitions but i always try to win and get the most out of the units. Beating friends and winning at my LGS.

Ill try all the changes you pointed out and check how it feels.

Again, Thanks alot.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:48 pm 
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NLjungberg wrote:
I'd like to keep the models i've got ... and get the most out of the units.

This is how you become good at this game. You will accomplish much more by learning to use the units than you will by picking the "right" units. This is true even for experienced players.

You will probably find these videos by Furion useful.
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=68814
The top section talks about basics, the bottom section talks about specifics and is harder to grasp.

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Ah, Floorhammer. A time honored tradition. Sadly, I no longer play since my brother tripped and right-angled the spears of a 15-man regiment.
-Original Dragon Prince, July 2011


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:47 pm 
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Location: NJ, USA
With both an Archmage and a Loremaster you might run into a problem of not having enough power dice to keep them well fed to cast.
Maybe try just picking one or the other so you can get the full value out of them. Try playing a game with both first though and see how it works out!


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Farva324 wrote:
With both an Archmage and a Loremaster you might run into a problem of not having enough power dice to keep them well fed to cast.
Maybe try just picking one or the other so you can get the full value out of them. Try playing a game with both first though and see how it works out!


I've seen players on the site use both and have quite a bit of fun. Both have spells that are going to be more useful in various situations

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Ah, Floorhammer. A time honored tradition. Sadly, I no longer play since my brother tripped and right-angled the spears of a 15-man regiment.
-Original Dragon Prince, July 2011


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:21 am 
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Farva324 wrote:
With both an Archmage and a Loremaster you might run into a problem of not having enough power dice to keep them well fed to cast.
Maybe try just picking one or the other so you can get the full value out of them. Try playing a game with both first though and see how it works out!


Albeit it being true it is hard to keep both mages wellfed it is not the man reason i run both is to keep the magicphase versatile. Khaines ring to keep atleast two units with a wardsave. And all signature spells never leaves me without anything to do.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 267
Using a wyrm shield you cannot use mounted char. Griffon, lsg and lion chariots are quite bad in competitive environment. I think you should invest more to foot fighting chars to get unprotected chars to lsg second line. How about something like

Lvl 4 high, top, boh
Lm, dispel scroll, crown of command, merw. Shield, sword of might
Sealord, bsb, botwd
Noble, gw/halberd, aoss+lucks./armour of destiny
Griffon noble da/ha+lion cloack, swiftstrike, reaver bow, crown of alc., charmed shield/dragon helm, lance
0-1x20ish archers, mus/fc
40ish lsg, fc
2-4x5 reavers, bows, mus
30ish sm, fc, razor banner
6ish dp, champ, banner of eternal flame
0-1xlion chariot
Bolters


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Posts: 32
A L4 + loremaster works very well but cost to much
A L4 + scroll caddy cost 200p less and i don't think a little better spells choices dooing the game is worth that much. You pick the lore for the L4 after what add you list most and add a spell for the caddy. I find a L4 with high and seering doom on the caddy works really well. But i think this list lack against armour ( swordmasters and 2 bolts ) so I would go with metal on the L4 and " combat add " like heavens or beast on the caddy
the 200p saved could be used for a frostheart but if you don't have the model you can upgrade the griffon noble to a prince Also as pgp suggst a combat noble would add much needed high strengh attacks to you sea guards.

* note i don't have my Book so the points are probertly a bit off

Prince on Griffon @425
Talisman of preservation, charmed shield, ogre blade, Dragon armour, lion cloack. Swiftstrike.

Archmage level 4 lore of metal. @ 305
Talisman of endurance, Book of hoeth.

Mage level 1 lore of beast @ 110
Dispel magic scroll.

Bsb @ 151
Armour of destiny, great weapon.

10 x archers @100
10 x archers @100

28 x sea guards with full command. @ 366

5 x Reavers with spear @ 80
5 x Reavers with spear @ 80

6 x Dragon Princes. @174

30 x Swordmasters @ 465
with full command and razer banner.

2 bolts. @ 140

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:21 pm 
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So I have played a couple of games since my first post and have changed my mind about a couple of things.
- Cut the noble on griffon , not worth the points.
- leave the bsb with standard banner. Add BotWD on the unit who needs it.
- use two groups if swordmasters at approximately 15 units each to get more static CR.
- use dragon princes to flank units and combo charge.
- only use loremaster if he feels needed.
- use the lvl 2 mage as a scroll carrier and pick a lore that counters the army I'm facing.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Posts: 32
I can only say try the list i have posted
it actualy more or less include the changes you have found you need.


Prince on Griffon @425
Talisman of preservation, charmed shield, ogre blade, Dragon armour, lion cloack. Swiftstrike.

Archmage level 4 lore of metal. @ 305
Talisman of endurance, Book of hoeth.

Mage level 1 lore of beast @ 110
Dispel magic scroll.

Bsb @ 151
Armour of destiny, great weapon.

10 x archers @100
10 x archers @100

28 x sea guards with full command. @ 366

5 x Reavers with spear @ 80
5 x Reavers with spear @ 80

6 x Dragon Princes. @174

30 x Swordmasters @ 465
with full command and razer banner.

2 bolts. @ 140

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Love making army lists
Don't believe MSU


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