How to handle Chaos - Throgg and Galrauch

[Gwaihir75]

Hi,

I'm usually running an ETC list with white lions. I don't know how to protect them from Throgg breath weapon. Any ideas? He always kills half of a unit

I have similiar problem with Galrauch's breath weapon. The answer should be star dragon, but my prince will die. What is a correct ruling for Galrauch's breath weapon?

25.9. Q: If you take multiple hits from Galrauch’s breath, do you take multiple tests?
A: No, just one.

Does it mean that his breath will just be one die, so 1-4 makes star dragon toughness test, 5-6 prince takes the T test. Right?

Thanks.

[Auere]

Caradryan on Ashtari is like the worlds best counter to Throgg. Throgg would be dead before he moves. And since Throgg is often with trolls (who have no command), there is just no getting around the encounter for him...

Other than that, white lions with flaming banner should also do the trick. 12 white lions should be able to strike at throgg, 8 hits... 5-6 wounds. Throgg has only 4...

When it comes to Galrauch, you are looking at a 510p model which is both a monster and a level 4 mage. You need to shoot and magic that thing... 4 rbts, reaver bow+pot of strength or even massed bow shots, combined with stuff like searing doom (which I hope you are taking against chaos anyway).

[Gwaihir75]

Hi,

thank for your help. Caradryan might be a good idea, but there is no place in my star dragon list. The other thing is that I am building an universal army. On the other hand I have lvl4 high mage and lvl1 fire mage which can take lore of metal instead of fire.

One of my list is:
prince on star dragon
lvl4 mage scepter
lvl1 mage scroll
BSB reaver bow

30 archers
6 silver helms, musician, shields
5 silver helms, musician, shields


28 white lions, FCG, banner of the world dragon

3 RBT
1 eagle

My second list is similiar with frost instead of star dragon and better equipment for heroes.
My 3rd list is spanish list from Serbia ETC 2014 - prince on foot, archmage, 2 nobles in 13 silverhelms, frost rest is similiar.

[Auere]

With that list, its easy to see you doing well against galrauch. Just put a PoS on the bsb and switch your level 1 to metal, and you should blow him to bits on safe distance. The prince can charge in and finish the job (star lance+OTS I suppose?), when galrauch is down on two wounds.

Trolls (and throgg in particular) are kind of difficult when you dont have the flaming banner or flaming weapons. You dont even have sisters to nick of regen before firing 30 arrows and 18 rbt bolts into the trolls. I think trolls and throgg are a perfect counter for your list. Something for you to consider, if its a general list. Chimeraes are not nice eiter without flaming attacks. Fireballs dont make up for a lack of flaming attack, since they only strip the regen in the magic phase.

As for general note on the list, I dont think your magic setup is optimal. I think you wouldnt feel much of a diffence by going 2xlevel2, which should save you a bunch of points. Maybe high and metal plus a ring of khaine.

Level4s are best with the Book.

[Gwaihir75]

Prince has ots and giant blade. What is PoS?
My spell against trolls is fiery convocation. I think that high magic is fine.

Book would be great, but ETC is pretty much limited.

Thanks for help.

[Auere]

PoS=Potion of Strength

Fiery Convocation is a very suboptimal way to handle trolls. Such a high value spell to kill 1-2 trolls - although its RiP is probably enough to still force a dispel.

But 1-2 dead trolls wont help you beat Throgg... only flaming attacks will. So either live with the big troll king wrecking your poor elves, or bring some fire!

[Gwaihir75]

The biggest problem with Throgg is his breath weapon. The rest might be manageble.... Star dragon has fiery breath, but it is pretty weak - in close combat it won't turn the regeneration off the trolls.

[Auere]

Yeah... Throgg is pretty brutal. S5 no armour breath weapon and core trolls... omg. He is cheap aswell. Easily one of the best special characters.

The dragon strikes is I2, so the trolls will have their regen against all other attacks (prince, other units in same combat, dragons regular attacks). It doesnt quite work, although it does help a bit.

I think that if you want to keep the general layout for the list, adding 5-10 sisters would be the ideal solution to a throgg troll unit. With all your other shooting, you can really put a dent on them when regen is down. And once the unit is down to 4 guys, throgg starts taking hits aswell... if you get him down to a couple of wounds, he should die in combat before he gets to use his breathweapon - even with regen.

The good thing about adding a few sisters is, that they are not bad against other things. Its definately not a waste.

[Gwaihir75]

Well, I can drop balistas and take 12 sisters and the book. Same 5 combo points, for Throgg matchup it is definitelly better.

[NexS]

Throgg?
On a slightly more serious note (but probably entirely unhelpful)

[Gwaihir75]

LOL

Thanks.

[John Rainbow]

Troll vomit is magical no? Ergo BotWD should help there.

[Gwaihir75]

Actually Troll vomit is not magical. Hence only Allariele would be a little helpfull, but WS 5+ won't save it.

[NexS]

I'm pretty sure JR is right. From memory, it's a magical no armour attack....

[pk-ng]

I'm pretty sure JR is right. From memory, it's a magical no armour attack....

troll vomit is not magical.
throgg's vomit is not magical as well

Auere: instead of changing the army list to defeat the throgg list I think Gwaihir75 what's to know what tactic (this is the tactics sub-forum after all) can be used to counter throgg & co.

Gwaihir75:
Against Galrauch you can't let him breath your WLs otherwise as you've stated that's half the unit gone. The best way to counter Galrauch is use your Star Dragon as a threat bubble to ensure if galrauch does land and breath at least you can counter charge him. As previously stated use RBTs / range / magic to beat galrauch down so Hand of Glory on your RBT will help. SQ is a too short of range. The fire mage will help especially with fireball even if it's the occasional 1 or 2 wounds still worth to cast it.

Against Throgg & Co. you can't do alot as previously stated you don't have flaming attacks (well only breath). You get 2 options
a) redirect the said unit. do not engage it.
b) shooting it down to a reasonable size for you to manage in combat. You can always breath the unit first then RBT shoot it. Breath is flaming attacks to 1 round of shooting (preferably in short range) should do on average 6 (from rbt) 3-4 from breath.

[Gwaihir75]

pk-ng: Thanks. This is what I wanted to hear. So either:
a) double flee redirect (I have eagle and silver helms unit)
b) shoot down - dragon first followed by RBTs and archers

I think b) option is perfect and suits my style. My dragon can usually move up to 20" in a moving phase and up to 20 inches in a magic phase....

[pk-ng]

with option b) it is kind of an all in tactic. So if you commit to it you have to do it from the start (this is very dependent on the unit size. I'm assuming it quite large like 8+). You can't really half-ass this tactic. Its either commit early or don't commit at all. Sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't after all it's 50% chance for him to save his wounds