How to counter an Empier Cav army?

All discussions related to Warhammer Fantasy Battles from 1st to 8th edition go here, including army construction, comp creation, campaign and scenarios design, etc...
Post Reply
Message
Author
Scarano
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:19 pm

How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#1 Post by Scarano »

Ok chaps, so on Thursday I will be putting my mighty HE army on the table for what will be the very first time. And I want to do them proud.
I will be facing a good mate, we are both friendly players, but we both seem to cheeseing things up. And also being quite secretive about our lists. Now he has experience under his belt, I am still quite a new player.

I would like to know your advice for taking on Empire.
The list I am planning on running is as follow -

Lords and Heros
Archmage
+ Book of Hoeth
+ Talisman of Preservation
+ Level 4 Wizard
+ Lore of Heavens
= 320

Prince
+ Giant Blade
+ Shield
+ Dragonhelm
+ Dawnstone
+ Dragon armour
+ Elven Steed
+ Ithilmar barding
= 282

Noble
+ Ogre Blade
+ Shield
+ Luck-stone
+ Dragon armour
+ Battle Standard
+ Elven Steed
+ Ithilmar barding
= 170

Mage [85]
+ Dispel Scroll
= 110

Core
5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

12 Silver Helms
+ shields
+ high helm
+ musician
+ standard bearer
= 306

Special
24 White Lions of Chrace
+ Guardian
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Banner of the World Dragon
= 392

Rare
Frostheart Phoenix
= 240

Frostheart Phoenix
= 240

Giant Eagle
+ Shredding Talons
= 55

Now I can't tell you exactly what he is running, but I can tell you a few things he will 100% have.
The Empier army he has put together (his first time using them) is all cavalry.
He will have 1 - 2 units of Demigryphs and in know for a fact he is bringing the Stank.

What's your advise guy, feel free to also critisis my list.

Any help appreciated.

Regards
My Blog: [url]www.wargamingmywaytoahappierlife.blogspot.co.uk[/url]

Records:
High Elves: W= 3 L= 0 D= 0 Bare with me I'm new to this
Ogre Kingdoms: W= 1 L= 0= 0
User avatar
Axiem
Rhetor militaris
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#2 Post by Axiem »

Hi Scarano!

The list looks quite good, and there aren't a lot of suggestions to be made.

Heavens is an interesting choice on the Level Four: I would personally go with Life here since the bus is small, and you'll want to conserve them as much as possible. Flesh to Stone on White Lions is also much better than the Heaven buffs, and Life also saves you needing Talisman of Preservation on your Level Four (it also keeps your BSB and Prince alive as well). I would take another Eagle instead.

If you know he's going to be taking Knights and would be open to it, Metal on the Level One can do wonders to Stanks and Demis (what lore is the Level One currently using? It's not listed).

Reavers are a non-issue against Empire. I would personally go with 2x 6s of Helms, as they're going to support your Phoenixes and Bus much more effectively.

Hope that helps!

Axiem
User avatar
HERO
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:52 am

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#3 Post by HERO »

Drop scroll caddy for more Lions and another Eagle IMO, you don't need the scroll caddy in most games, especially with book. Just better manage your dice.

Also, I would drop Dragon Armor on the Prince. Waste of points with that Dragonhelm. Also, your BSB wants Enchanted Shield with that Luckstone.

The Lore choice should be Life I think, in this type of list at least.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=45884][img]http://i.imgur.com/EvidzNv.jpg[/img][/url]
[i]Click the banner to see my 8th Ed. High Elves Tactica![/i]
[url=http://lkhero.blogspot.com/][size=150]HERO's Gaming Blog[/size][/url]
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

Personally, I'd swap one Phoenix out for 4 RBT to increase board control.

I'd also keep the scroll. Empire are fond of Life (also Light and Heavens) and something like Dwellers on that bus could really hurt. TBH only your combat units can hold characters, so I'd consider putting one caster in the Lions and the other in the bus, maybe to protect it. Life or High look like good shouts for that.
Scarano
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#5 Post by Scarano »

Super apriciative of your help chaps. Tweeking the list with your suggestions.
But as always the final decider will be the fair of my dice.

They main reason for the dual pheonix is I have the models and just finished painting them.
Plus one was sent to me free of charge from GW, and IMO anything that comes free from a company like GW it deserves to be used. :D
My Blog: [url]www.wargamingmywaytoahappierlife.blogspot.co.uk[/url]

Records:
High Elves: W= 3 L= 0 D= 0 Bare with me I'm new to this
Ogre Kingdoms: W= 1 L= 0= 0
User avatar
bloody nunchucks
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:25 am

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#6 Post by bloody nunchucks »

Alright mate

I have a few suggestions, I glanced at the comments and agree with most of them.

Against an Empire army running a tank, 2x+ Demi's and a Calv deathstar we don't have too many choices, but certainly enough to make due with.

1) Why you are not taking lore of metal against someone you know is taking knights and a tank is beyond me. It's probably one of the two best lores you can take in this game. You can kill the tank in one turn if you are lucky, or the knight unit.

2) I would strongly consider Bolt throwers. Dropping a Phoenix for four would be a great choice imho. you can eliminate the knight unit in a short amount of time with concentrated fire from bolt throwres or shoot at the Demi's.

3) 3 units of chaff is not enough when playing against an army that will have warmachines, a tank and a deathstar. I would figure out how to get at the least another eagle and maybe another reaver unit or two.

4) At this point level, without a defensive mage your White Lions will be hurting in combat. They are going to lose numbers like it's their job. So after they fight (and beat) a unit of demi's (they can't fight the knight deathstar) you will want to conserve their points. I would add more to them or get even just a lvl2 with beasts, life or high in the unit.

5) You currently have two units that can win you the game, while he will have four (two that fly, one you cant kill, one you can only fight with your own deathstar) in addition to this he will have better support shooting than you do. You will need to deploy properly and quickly engage without waiting for him to get to you. If one of your units (deathstar, WL's) get's flanked you will lose the game. Think about using reavers to screen your sides from the Demi's, if you need more tactics on that just ask.


Wall of txt, I know. Sorry!
I used to play:
High Elves
Tau
Retribution of Scyrah
Asur1985
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:40 pm

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#7 Post by Asur1985 »

Gees O how on earth did you get a free Phoenix?
User avatar
Delaqure
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:57 pm

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#8 Post by Delaqure »

Does he also have cannons? If so the reavers are a good choice. I also vote for some bolt throwers. They can seriously damage the knights and griffins. I also second the lore of metal. It will scare the crap out of him and leave him in a quandry for dispelling.
User avatar
John Rainbow
Posts: 3550
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
Location: PA, USA

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#9 Post by John Rainbow »

vs. Empire I second the advice about taking RBTs. In fact they are almost an auto-include in any HE list as they are that good!

If you can hit them in the flank or rear, a single frosty should be able to take out a small unit of Demi's. As long as you don't whiff and take a full load of attacks from them, you should do some wounds and likely break them on combat res.

If you know you will face Empire, why no lore of metal?
Eirik
Posts: 2103
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 9:14 am

Re: How to counter an Empier Cav army?

#10 Post by Eirik »

RBTs are one of the best units in our book. Without a couple, you're going to have a bad time against armor. I imagine that against an empire 1+ save army, 4 would make a world of difference.
Ah, Floorhammer. A time honored tradition. Sadly, I no longer play since my brother tripped and right-angled the spears of a 15-man regiment.
-Original Dragon Prince, July 2011
Post Reply