Elite Infantry Ideas

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henrypmiller
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:20 am
Location: UK

Elite Infantry Ideas

#1 Post by henrypmiller »

I think our Elite infantry aren't particularly great compared to 'previous re-roll GW hits' and new Dark elf elite units. So I thought I would re think their roles and try and try and give them more distinct jobs.

The way I see it is that the Swordmasters are kind of the infantry-killer-blender unit, the White lions are the "hold you up and high strength" unit, and the Phoenix Guard are "durable but not so killy". I want to change these roles slightly.

Swordmasters 14pts

As before but instead of deflect shots:

Masters of the Sword:
4++ parry save 6++ vs shooting. Full supporting attacks from the second rank. Martial prowess adds 1 rank [up to 3] but only 1 A each from the back rank.

Having read the defenders of Ulthuan these kids are rocking some crazy fighting style that makes trying to kill them pretty impossible. I think a ward save in combat reflects this quite well, is not over powered as you can still kill them at range or with magic [also the sisters of battle [new DE] have a similar rule and in theory are probably not quite as good warriors. Also because its a parry save when fighting the sisters of battle they wouldn't get the ward save because of their special rule. I think this is to do with whips or nets or something which is accurate as they wouldn't be able to use their fighting style if they were all tangled up].

Champion can have 50pts of ANY TYPE of magic items - he's from Hoeth Bra!

These guys are now "durable in close combat" and "infantry killers" as before in their role.

Pheonix guard: 13pts

As before with the following changes:

LD 10, Unbreakable. Fluff wise there is no reason why they shouldn't have this rule. They know they are going to die. They don't run away.

No 4++. Really don't understand this rule fluff wise.

MRes [2] Assuryan protects them and whatnot. Same as Anointed.

Their role is now a fail safe road block unit for setting up flank charges and slowing down units. Similar to what white lions do now. but you don't pay the points for the high S attacks.

25 pts of ANY TYPE of magic item.

White lions 13 pts As before with following changes:

No stubborn, but LD 9. Their brave but they saved the life of 1 phoenix king once. I don't think this should warrant "stubborn". I mean, if you had a Phoenix King special character then he would probably have "all white lions units get the stubborn special rule so long as he is alive".

Ignore fear and terror
Lion cloak +1AS in CC +2AS vs ranged attacks [Cmon dark elves - 5+AS sea dragon cloak. Yeah right.] Also this would give our characters an extra pip of AS in combat. So the choice is as viable over dragon armour.

Huntsmen:

They are expert killers/trappers and know the weak spots of animals and how to bring down the crazy magic-tainted bests of the mountains.
D3 wounds per unsaved wound and reduce stomp and thunder stomp attacks by -1.

These guys role are "durable vs ranged attacked" and "monster/big stuff killers".

Can take ANY TYPE of magic item up to 25pts [really don't know why they changed this. Giving a champion a talisman isn't really overpowered].

Just some ideas I had.
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Domine Nox
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Re: Elite Infantry Ideas

#2 Post by Domine Nox »

henrypmiller wrote:Swordmasters 14pts

As before but instead of deflect shots:

Masters of the Sword:
4++ parry save 6++ vs shooting. Full supporting attacks from the second rank. Martial prowess adds 1 rank [up to 3] but only 1 A each from the back rank.

Having read the defenders of Ulthuan these kids are rocking some crazy fighting style that makes trying to kill them pretty impossible. I think a ward save in combat reflects this quite well, is not over powered as you can still kill them at range or with magic [also the sisters of battle [new DE] have a similar rule and in theory are probably not quite as good warriors. Also because its a parry save when fighting the sisters of battle they wouldn't get the ward save because of their special rule. I think this is to do with whips or nets or something which is accurate as they wouldn't be able to use their fighting style if they were all tangled up].

Champion can have 50pts of ANY TYPE of magic items - he's from Hoeth Bra!

These guys are now "durable in close combat" and "infantry killers" as before in their role.
I would say too cheap, more supporting attacks and a 4++ in close combat for a 1pt increase? That makes them cheaper than PG with far more attacks, higher strength, and almost the same durability. For a change like that they would have to be 16pts or so I feel.
henrypmiller wrote:Pheonix guard: 13pts

As before with the following changes:

LD 10, Unbreakable. Fluff wise there is no reason why they shouldn't have this rule. They know they are going to die. They don't run away.

No 4++. Really don't understand this rule fluff wise.

MRes [2] Assuryan protects them and whatnot. Same as Anointed.
So take away the one advantage the PG had going for them and make them never taken again. People already are iffy about their S4, to take away the 4++ would shelve these guys in record time. Also that would mean the Annointed would lose his Ward save as well, and also go to the shelf. The fluff for the 4++ is that they know when their death is coming, they are protected from other attacks, because those attacks are not the one that is supposed to kill them. It would be like you knowing that the 3rd gunshot when you ran into a room was the one that would hit you. If you KNEW that was fact, you could just burst into the room and the first 2 would miss, because they were always going to, to everyone else it appears like you were doing something super.
henrypmiller wrote:White lions 13 pts As before with following changes:

No stubborn, but LD 9. Their brave but they saved the life of 1 phoenix king once. I don't think this should warrant "stubborn". I mean, if you had a Phoenix King special character then he would probably have "all white lions units get the stubborn special rule so long as he is alive".

Ignore fear and terror
Lion cloak +1AS in CC +2AS vs ranged attacks [Cmon dark elves - 5+AS sea dragon cloak. Yeah right.] Also this would give our characters an extra pip of AS in combat. So the choice is as viable over dragon armour.

Huntsmen:

They are expert killers/trappers and know the weak spots of animals and how to bring down the crazy magic-tainted bests of the mountains.
D3 wounds per unsaved wound and reduce stomp and thunder stomp attacks by -1.

These guys role are "durable vs ranged attacked" and "monster/big stuff killers".

Can take ANY TYPE of magic item up to 25pts
So same points, for a bonus AS, D3 wounds, and less damage from Thunder Stomp, at the cost of stubborn? Again I feel undercosting, and ensuring that PG are obsolete. We already see huge blocks of these guys, and you believe they should be able to wipe a unit of Ogres in a single combat 100% of the time. Figure 15 White Lions attacking something (MC, MI), they get 15 attacks, at a higher I than the enemy hitting on 4s or 3s, wounding on 2s or 3s, and doing D3 wounds. Means the unit can put up to 45 wounds on multi-wound enemies. Daemon and Ogre players would never fight you again, because there would be no point. Especially when you're getting 2 WLs to every Ogre, and each WL is capable of 1 shotting the more expensive model.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48766]Nox's Painting/Modelling Log[/url]

[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60529]Nox's Battle Report Log[/url]
henrypmiller
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:20 am
Location: UK

Re: Elite Infantry Ideas

#3 Post by henrypmiller »

Pricing units its hard. I don't envy the guys who do this.

Maybe 15pts for Swordmasters and scrap the rule about full supporting attacks.

With regards to the Phoenix guard. I put a lot of value in the unbreakable rule. I think tactically if you have a unit you know will not run away then it gives you a major advantage for setting up charges and stalling/diverting big units etc. But I understand what you are saying about the ward save/fluff. I'm not sure a 4++ is a good representation of this though. Thoughts about giving them dragon armour?

Maybe the PG could inspire nearby units. They are the chosen of Asyran and give resolve to those around them. Inspiring presence rule?

The D3 thing seemed good in my head. Maybe just the champion? And again as I said above, I put a lot of value in stubborn [or at least having a high chance of standing your ground].
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