martial prowess tweak, swordmasters, flamephoenix

[XyonBlade]

Martial prowess: in addition to what it does now. All models mounted or on food wielding a shield or magical shield count as having the parry bonus as long as the weapon they wield allows a shield to be used in combat. Infantry count ranks as being 4 wide (8 horde).

Swordmasters: the unit counts as a level 1 wizard which can choose one of the 8 lores of magic from the warhammer rulebook. Every full rank after the 2nd rank raises the unit's magic level by 1.

Flamephoenix: the unit counts as a level 2 wizard which can take spells from the lore of fire.

[Domine Nox]

Those changes would merit a HUGE price increase.

[XyonBlade]

Huge? Maybe limit swordmasters to level 1 max, I'd see them going up 1-2 points a model.

And who takes a flamephoenix over a frostphoenix? this makes it a competative choice, IMO, maybe a small increase, 10 points.

The changes to martial prowess I would see as mainly making spearmen and seaguard useful core again, no price increase for them.

It would give characters some useful benefit from the rule, instead of having a completely useless special rule, and DE have a better rule anyways, no price increase.

Dragon princes already have a 6+ ward, so maybe silverhelms would need a 1 point increase.

[John Rainbow]

Martial prowess: in addition to what it does now. All models mounted or on food wielding a shield or magical shield count as having the parry bonus as long as the weapon they wield allows a shield to be used in combat. Infantry count ranks as being 4 wide (8 horde).

Too powerful to not have a bunch of points added to the cost/model.

Swordmasters: the unit counts as a level 1 wizard which can choose one of the 8 lores of magic from the warhammer rulebook. Every full rank after the 2nd rank raises the unit's magic level by 1.

Again, too powerful for current unit cost. You'd see units of 20 in ranks of 5 all the time to get lvl.3.

Flamephoenix: the unit counts as a level 2 wizard which can take spells from the lore of fire.

Somewhat plausible given the cost of the Flamespyre. I'd think counting as a lvl.1 and having fireball only would be better.

[Sackree]

For martial prowess I think it should just allow models to be able to make there full supporting attacks.

This would also give swordmasters the only boost they need to set them aside from the rest of our elite infantry.

[Prince of Spires]

For martial prowess I think it should just allow models to be able to make there full supporting attacks.

This would also give swordmasters the only boost they need to set them aside from the rest of our elite infantry.

This. Or make it a SM special rule where they can make full support attacks instead of just 1. That would turn SM into the blender they are supposed to be (and were in the previous book). As they are now, they are too squishy to benefit from MP.

Rod

[Asurion Whitestar]

For martial prowess I think it should just allow models to be able to make there full supporting attacks.

This would also give swordmasters the only boost they need to set them aside from the rest of our elite infantry.

This. Or make it a SM special rule where they can make full support attacks instead of just 1. That would turn SM into the blender they are supposed to be (and were in the previous book). As they are now, they are too squishy to benefit from MP.

Rod

I think MP giving full supporting attacks would be better, that way our characters might actually benefit from the rule.

[Loriel]

I would actually think that Flamephoenix shoud have innate bound spell fireball rather being a wizard. perhaps some other innate bound.

I would actually think swordmasters more like mage guard as they are guardians of tower of hoeth. So what would be better way to get them almost autoincluded, than making wizards to be in second rank... Oh boy that would be awesome with high ward mage

But still I would say best way to restore Swordmaster glory / fluff would allow ASF rerolls for them, (with point increase ofc). For white lions it is imo better choice to have them fighting in initiative order.

That idea that MP would give full attack value. Perhaps just the MP rank would get benefit from full attacks... That would still be perhaps too powerfull when considering something like bironas timewarp, swordmaster etc. But other way would be that only characters can have full attacks from back ranks. That would justify almost always useless special rule for characters and it wouldn't be over the top ruling. Savage beast of horrors would have new use for us when additional hand weapon naked nobles would be spammed to back rank for 72 points

[Dartanelo]

I always thought that MP would be better if it was all supporting attacks, but would that be to powerful with timewarp? I bet you would see a lot of Everqueen led light covens. Swordmasters should have ASF, it bothers me in particular because in the book it talks about how light and special their swords are . Another tweak I would have liked to see was the lion cloak giving +1 in cc and +2 to shooting. I was ok with not getting it until I saw the +2 to everything dark elf version.....