Dragon Mage as a Battle Standard Bearer (among other things)

[Col_Beefeater]

I posted this on Warseer as well, but I think the generals here might have some more meaningful insights.

Hey guys so I've been thinking alot about the Dragon Mage lately, and while he certainly has become alot more survivable thanks to his option to take Dragon Armor, he remains a subpar choice in the High Elf book. His magic has also taken a hit since the loss of Reckless generating +1 PD a spell and the removal of silver wand. I think allowing the D-Mage to carry the Army Battle Standard would be an amazing addition for him, and finally allow him to bring something useful to the table without hamstringing other hero slot options. He may still be subpar offensively and a massive points, but a Dragon in the hero slot giving 18" re-roll bubble is also nothing to scoff at in my opinion. Plus it fits his fluff as well: the Dragon Mages are said to inspire the other High Elves with hope in the face of the impending grimderp dying out of their race.

The option of BSB alone would be huge for him and give the guy some legitimate consideration for tabletop use.

So anyway discuss that bit first off.

I would go a step further and argue the Dragon Mage should drop (at least) 20 points in cost as well. His price has remained the same at 175 slaves, even though other Mages have fallen in price by 7.5 slaves, while the D-Mage's actual magical capabilities have gotten worse. The sacrifice of any dispel bonus for +2 to cast is a 1:1 trade off, and does not warrant an additional points charge. Further he lost his PD generation (as he should have), but saw no accompanying points reduction. Perhaps if he came standard with Dragon Armor his cost could be justified, but he has to purchase it separately along with any other magical gear he might desire. As it stands our standard Mages come in at 42.5 slaves, while the Dragon Mage comes in at a whopping 60 slaves, and is limited to a lore that is fairly subpar for us, especially when you're shoving him into CC as soon as you possibly can.

Additionally I would argue he should increase to WS5, and gain access to the mundane kit available to nobles (Spear/Halberd/GW/Lance/Shield). He remains weaker offensively than any of our other heroes, at only base S3 A2 I5, but if you kit him out fully he can function as a useful sort of Jack-knife for our army. The WS5 benefits him defensively more than anything else.

To illustrate, assuming a 20pt decrease:

Spunky McFirehair the Dragon Mage
-Lvl 2
-BSB
-Dragon Armor
-Lance
-Enchanted Shield
-Dawnstone
-Dispel Scroll

All together this will cost you a total of 456 points, which is pretty darn expensive for a lvl 2. For the same price you could get a Noble BSB (AoC and GW for kit) in a 20 man White Lion unit with Banner of the Rape Dragon, or alternatively be only 12 slaves shy of 2 Frostheart Phoenixes. However, the D-Mage could do a little bit of everything: you get a respectable monster without eating up Lord points, regen negation, a support caster/scroll caddy, and a character that can at least stay alive in a pinch. I can see this guy working in tandem with a High Magic Book of Hoeth Arch-Mage as the only 2 characters in 2500 pt lists.

I'm interested in hearing all your thoughts, and will do some playtests once I paint up my Dragon Mage model.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost6820787

[Cable]

I don't see any point in making him a bsb, but just about your point cost references.
He actually got better. The sun dragon is better than before (up 1T, better armor and breath weapon) and the mage can now take armor. How is this worse? His job, if he had any before, was never to be the main dispeler.

[Prince of Spires]

the mage can now take armor. How is this worse? His job, if he had any before, was never to be the main dispeler.

The loss of +1 PD per cast is major and means on average you roll 1.5 lower per cast. In the old build with lvl2 and silver wand, you could get +3 PD, which not only gave you a higher average per cast then the +2, build could also turn a below average roll on the winds of magic into a strong magic phase or a big roll into an absolutely brutal magic phase. Remember that, because his PD are added to each roll, you could get a 15 PD phase, which when rolling against 6DD is great.

Rod

[Cable]

I agree thy the loss of PD is important, but I also mentioned that the sun dragon is now much better and also the armor issue. My point is that you can't just look at the mage and say that he got worse. The dragon is an integral part of what you're paying for, and it's much better.

[Col_Beefeater]

Except the default Sun Dragons stayed the same price if you take them as a prince, despite getting better. There's not justifiable reason the Sun Dragon should cost more when a dragon mage takes them.

Additionally regular mages dropped in points cost, and my entire argument is that the Dragon Mage's special abilities make him no more valuable than a regular mage. Furthermore the ability to take armor on a T3 W2 mage who is by default a big cannon target, uses a subpar lore, and must purchase all armor separate anyway is not a justifiable reason for a points increase in my opinion.