'pila' spearmen

[Natwest]

i was reminiscing on our spearmen, and i thought it would be cool if we had some sort of 'pila' i think attack. this is when the spearmen are charged they throw their spears at the enemy. i would treat as - s4 1 shot each, no minnuses for stand and shoot. they then draw hand weapons unitl the end of the game. then they would get a parry save in the ensuing combat and martial prowess gives you another rank anyway. if you think its not overpowered enough you could go ms2 or if they destroy the unit over the course of that combat they pick up spears again... just an idea i was toying with. it just improves our spearmen a bit with the sort of thing they would do... then fix lsg with the same and longbows, also possibly a special sea fighters rule or something and they could be fixed. archers could get a points drop etc, thats another thread someone is running. core fixed! what does everyone think? too overpowered? not worth it? all comments appreciated.

[Elithmar]

Why s4 though? I like it, but think it should have the same strength as them. Then you can also mindrazor the pila.

[Malossar]

I think the str 4 is to show the weight of the spear being thrown.

[Natwest]

yes and also because its such short range to be hit by a spear

[RedAl]

I'll be honest I'm not a fan and not for reasons or game play, I just don't think its particularly fluffy or fits with the background.

Spearmen and Seaguard too have always used spears, its an iconic HE weapon and it doesn't make sense for them to go throwing it about the place and then drawing their hand weapons.

I don't care if using a spear isn't as good in the current game as a HW + shield, HE spearmen should always fight with the spears and have no other options. I'd love to see a parry save for them if you ask me and give Seaguard heavy armour as standard among other things to differentiate them.

Al

[Shannar, Sealord]

I'll be honest I'm not a fan and not for reasons or game play, I just don't think its particularly fluffy or fits with the background.

Spearmen and Seaguard too have always used spears, its an iconic HE weapon and it doesn't make sense for them to go throwing it about the place and then drawing their hand weapons.
Al

Agreed. Except that I'm pretty sure seaguard could upgrade to halberds originally (in 4th)

[Aerendar Valandil]

In Warhammer Ancient Battles (ranked) infantry with 'throwing spears' could fight with an additional rank (the second only - in older editions only the first rank could fight if the troops had no spears of other special rule and in WHAB models could not be armed with both ordinary 'thrusting' spears AND throwing spears) in the first round of combat (cavalry and skirmishers could reroll to hit). HEAVY throwing spears, such as pila, added +1 to S in the first round of combat.

If I would convert that to the new WH edition, I would say that the reroll would be the better rule. I would not add the +1S, as I think Elves would go for speed and lightness more than for a very hard-hitting weapon. And I would say thet it should be used INSTEAD of the elves' extra rank for spears, not in addition to.

I note, however, that I do not think a pilum or throwing spear-like weapon fits the Elf line infantry. I could imagine some kind of light throwing spears on Reavers, however, as an option instead of spears, and I could imagine javelins as well on reavers, and perhaps on a kind of short-distance skirmishers without bows.

[Shannar, Sealord]

javalins have been a warhammer weapon in the past. There were even some elves that could take them. I honestly don't really remember what they did. And while I keep my 4e army book handy the rule book is well buried.

[Aerendar Valandil]

Javelins for HE is pre-5th edition. In 3rd there were quite a lot op options for 'Elves' I think, incuding Wardancers with mixed weapons and javelins. I do not know 4th.
For WE Characters and chariots could use javelins in 5th. I do not know later editions of the WE.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Javelins for HE is pre-5th edition. In 3rd there were quite a lot op options for 'Elves' I think, incuding Wardancers with mixed weapons and javelins. I do not know 4th.
For WE Characters and chariots could use javelins in 5th. I do not know later editions of the WE.

It was HE chariots that could have them in 4th. The reason WE could have them in 5th is that the WE book was actually a 4e book (last book of 4th) and they never got a book in 5th. Javilins were phased out in 5th, and by 6th they were gone.

[Aerendar Valandil]

They're still in the rulebook. Javelins are missile weapons. The range has been extended from 8" to 12" in the last edition. They have the Quick to Fire special rule, essentially the same as the special rules for javelins/thrown weapons/throwing axes in earlier editions. They have been removed from the Army Books, but not from the rules as a whole. You can still use them in scenario's or with homemade characters or units.

EDIT: I conclude from a remark in de the book that they're still in the Lizardmen book.

[Shannar, Sealord]

I was just thinking that skinks might still use them.

[cptcosmic]

I always thought that HE should have throwing weapons. Throwing axes would fit White Lions just like throwing spears would do well on Reavers.

anyway HE are actually hunters, they were at the beginning and also are "now", just because they have evolved some wicked elite units does not change their core traditions. lore wise, their most used weapon is spear and bow and it makes sense to have some throwing spears in an HE army

[Shannar, Sealord]

I always thought that HE should have throwing weapons. Throwing axes would fit White Lions just like throwing spears would do well on Reavers.

anyway HE are actually hunters, they were at the beginning and also are "now", just because they have evolved some wicked elite units does not change their core traditions. lore wise, their most used weapon is spear and bow and it makes sense to have some throwing spears in an HE army

Fighting spears and throwing spears are very different weapons though. But as long as spearmen keep fighting spears, and you don't let throwing spears get used like fighting spears I'd be ok with a unit that has them. Maybe from cothique. Or maybe we could have elf netters and clubbers

[lordoftheshadows]

I personally see spears as a unit that does really well against charges.
Ex.
Spear: when a unit that is armed with spears is charged in the front ark the charging unit takes hits equal to the number of models in the first 2 ranks (3 for martial prowess, hordes don't change the amount) at strength equal to the movement value of the unit.
Halberds: same as spears but no extra rank and +1 strength.
This would make spears an great anvil and make cavalry scared to charge them. It would also show how they are defensive units.