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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Green Istari

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CaledorRises wrote:
18" range is just too short, that's within the average charge range of anything movement 9 or 10, and 20 Goblins just won't last at all in close combat.

I think this nails it CR. Goblin archers aren’t bad but they are in a 20. Happily 30 with shortbows and full command is 125pts which I could just tack on to reach 625 of Core for a 2500 list if necessary. I’ve seen much bigger, especially where Poison is involved.

CaledorRises wrote:
Shaman! I've never seen the model before, but it looks more evil

Quite mean isn’t he?

:twisted:

Olthannon wrote:
I absolutely love those models, so much character and your paint job looks really nice on them. Can't wait to see more!

Thanks Olthannon! I’ve just added the wings to this standard bearer, the banner pole was looking a little bare:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:50 am 
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Auctor Aeternitatum
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SpellArcher wrote:
I’ve just added the wings to this standard bearer, the banner pole was looking a little bare:

He looks suitably nasty :) looking forward to the end result.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:19 pm 
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Green Istari

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Thanks Rod, I’m making progress on him.

:)

Artillery

So over on his blog, CaledorRises and I have been discussing possible enemy counters to his big flyers. Dragons etc. are no joke, any army needs some way to deal with them. Magic is one route, I do at least have access to Foot of Gork. But the main weapon is artillery and I feel that my stone thrower plus two bolt shooters isn’t quite enough, even at 2000pts. As mentioned I dislike Doom Divers and finding room for a second stone thrower in my case is problematic. Then I thought back to this:

Prince of Spires wrote:
I do think going for a full contingent of 6 bolt throwers in special could be an option.

I think Rod’s right you know. I’ m actually considering dropping the stone thrower and taking just 6 bolt shooters. The question is, would they be enough at 2000pts? Power lists eschew them for the classic double Doom Diver double stone thrower combo. Are they just complete rubbish or can weight of fire count for something?

We know RBT are good but BS 4 is really helpful and elves have good access to spell buffs. They also have good archery, in particular I’d have to rely on my Arrer Boyz for anti-personnel fire, problematic perhaps. One good thing is cost, the 6 total 210 points which leaves plenty for combat units. They are also Special, after spending 130 Rare points on Manglers I’d still have 370 and I’m still toying with the idea of my 360pt Stone Troll unit. Overall I feel these changes and bringing in the Arrers could give the list a real identity. So we’d have roughly:

Orc Warboss
Orc Lvl 4
Black Orc BSB

27 Big ‘Uns, FC, Shields, 15pt Magic Banner
18 Archers, FC
5 Wolf Riders, Shortbows

6 Bolt Shooters

2 Mangler Squigs
8 Stone Trolls

This would leave about 130pts or so. I’m vaguely considering a small unit of Boar Boyz. I don’t really rate them but I badly want a bit more speed. The question is of course, is the list any good?

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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:10 pm 
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I like most of the list, but I'm unsure about the Spear Chukkas. As you pointed out they have a lower BS and they can also misfire making them even less reliable. Also, with that many of them, unless you form 1-2 batteries of them it seems like it might be difficult to get all 6 to bear on a single target and making batteries makes them more vulnerable. Bolt Throwers aren't the greatest against monsters also because they are only D3 wounds and only S6. A T6 monster with 5+ wounds might not be massively threatened by them because even if all 6 shoot at it on turn 1 you'll average just 2 wounds. That gets worse against a dragon because you might just hit the rider since it randomises. I think a Rock Lobba might be better because it can scatter a bit and still hit the monster with that S9 shot and that will hit both the rider and dragon and then do D6 wounds to both.

That said cavalry will be terrified of your list as it will be extremely difficult to not expose a flank shot to 6 bolt throwers and you've got lots of armor ignoring shots.

Would it be possible to drop the 6 Spear Chukkas and replace it with 2 Rock Lobbas and then replace the Stone Trolls with normal Trolls and increase the size of the Troll unit to compensate for the points difference?


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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:00 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I think Rod’s right you know.

I might just put this in my signature ;)

I think at 2000pts you shouldn't worry too much about big flyers. Mounted monsters are unlikely to show up at that points level, since people approach them with a "go big or go home" attitude. And you really need 2400 pts minimum for a star dragon or equivalent I think.

However, there is plenty of heavy cavalry and monstrous cavalry at this points level, and they will not like the chukkas. The chukkas have a different kind of (un)reliability compared to stone throwers. You point them at whatever you want to hit and that is what gets hit. There just are some downsides.

I do think they perform a quite different role to RBT though. You bring the RBT mainly for the repeating shots. They're almost always better. And they really benefit from the higher BS. But they are also lower S, which gives them slightly different ideal targets. With BS 3 you're likely to hit with 3 out of the 6 in a turn. 3D3 S6 hits is pretty decent. This is also the reason I think bringing more of them is a better idea. 1 or 2 is too unreliable for any serious threat. And it makes you very dependent on dice. But with 6 of them, things will average out easier. And just the prospect of facing a lucky turn with 6 hits will make most monsters think twice and they will definitely not want to linger for 2 turns of shooting.

Also something to keep in mind is that with the trolls, mangles and Big Uns, the purpose of the chukkas is not necessarilly to kill but to take wounds off monsters. The trolls probably don't want to face a star dragon at full health. But if it only has 3 wounds left? That would make things more dicey.

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91


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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:42 am 
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Green Istari

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CaledorRises wrote:
I like most of the list, but I'm unsure about the Spear Chukkas. As you pointed out they have a lower BS and they can also misfire making them even less reliable. Also, with that many of them, unless you form 1-2 batteries of them it seems like it might be difficult to get all 6 to bear on a single target and making batteries makes them more vulnerable. Bolt Throwers aren't the greatest against monsters also because they are only D3 wounds and only S6. A T6 monster with 5+ wounds might not be massively threatened by them because even if all 6 shoot at it on turn 1 you'll average just 2 wounds. That gets worse against a dragon because you might just hit the rider since it randomises. I think a Rock Lobba might be better because it can scatter a bit and still hit the monster with that S9 shot and that will hit both the rider and dragon and then do D6 wounds to both.

In general I agree with this CR.

Prince of Spires wrote:
might just put this in my signature

Fill yer boots Rod!

Prince of Spires wrote:
I think at 2000pts you shouldn't worry too much about big flyers. Mounted monsters are unlikely to show up at that points level, since people approach them with a "go big or go home" attitude. And you really need 2400 pts minimum for a star dragon or equivalent I think.

As I noted recently on CR’s blog Rod, a list with Dragon plus double Frostheart won Milton Keynes last year. The Phoenixes fit nicely under 500pts, I’m guessing the Dragon was Moon, which remains formidable. I could certainly put up a fight but it might be tricky.

Prince of Spires wrote:
With BS 3 you're likely to hit with 3 out of the 6 in a turn. 3D3 S6 hits is pretty decent. This is also the reason I think bringing more of them is a better idea. 1 or 2 is too unreliable for any serious threat. And it makes you very dependent on dice. But with 6 of them, things will average out easier.

Given range and cover mods I suspect 2 hits per turn is more likely. I can live with that. Basically, I’d simply space them out across my baseline and fire at targets of opportunity, a lot easier on my poor brain!

Prince of Spires wrote:
Also something to keep in mind is that with the trolls, mangles and Big Uns, the purpose of the chukkas is not necessarilly to kill but to take wounds off monsters. The trolls probably don't want to face a star dragon at full health. But if it only has 3 wounds left? That would make things more dicey.

This is an excellent point and one that will impact how free the opponent is with his movement.

CaledorRises wrote:
Would it be possible to drop the 6 Spear Chukkas and replace it with 2 Rock Lobbas and then replace the Stone Trolls with normal Trolls and increase the size of the Troll unit to compensate for the points difference?

Very likely more effective. I do have the prosaic issue of fitting a second stone thrower in my case though! 10 Trolls would be a bit more efficient but I like Stone Trolls and I feel the extra saves might just come in handy, particularly the MR 2. Practically, I’m likely to take stone thrower plus three bolt shooters to MK, though I might give the 6 a go at Worcester.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:28 am 
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Green Istari

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So here’s the unit standard, a bit basic but he was mercifully simple to paint!

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 Post subject: Re: A New Blog
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:33 am 
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Nice Greenskin army! I particularly like the paintjob for the Goblin archers (with Squig!) and the latest Orc standard bearer. Neat choice of models! :)

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