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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:40 am 
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The Magic in 9th Age has been pretty neutered so the new list I am working on my Wizard I would like is 600+points. I'm not sure my 350 year old Wiz is worth more than 100 point being in the first rank and dying the first time some Chaff runs by kicking dirt in his face an then dying from shock.

If the Magic stays this way I'm not sure why a General would put him in the first rank. I know IT use to be that way in 8th but this is not 8th.

Instead of changing the points on the Mages and Wizards wouldn't they be more useful if they were allowed to be in the 2nd rank at least they would live longer and then be more useful.

I am going to wait a few more days or so then post a new army list here for your help in a valuation of the list.

Michael


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:12 pm 
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zenxzen wrote:
I know IT use to be that way in 8th but this is not 8th

World Dragon and Shield of Saphery are absent. Maybe the intention is for more wizards to hide out at the back in archer bunkers or similar?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:50 pm 
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I don't see survivability as being an issue, or at any rate, no more of an issue than it ever was. You can (and probably should) keep your mage out of combat in an archer-type bunker, and if you're worried you can always get a 4++ or 3++/5++ via the cloak.

The real issue as I see it is witchfire, which hits elves hard. I'm looking at ways around this, whether mounting on a dragon, bunkering with lions (high AS), flame wardens (ward), archers (cheap-ish), or going for druidism bsb/lord to regrow units afterwards and boost T before.

Granted, magic isn't as powerful as it was. I think no magic is viable, with crown of scorn and aethor icon banner covering defense, and you invest those 600pts into a combat threat instead.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:40 am 
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The way I read zenxzen's post is that the problem is a combination of survivability and impact. In 8th ed even if your mage died T3-4 he could still have had a big impact on the battle. Spells were more powerful and as such getting just a few cast can have a big impact. Similarly, with more powerful spells magic defence is more important, which is achieved by having the mage on the battlefield in the first turns of the battle.

With magic being toned down and survivability the same / lower, it's harder to have a similar effect from a mage. And thus harder to justify the investment in magic.

Perhaps mounting a mage on a flying creature is (part of) the answer. Increased mobility means you can stay away from most threats. And, as an added bonus, it also let's you get the mage where you want him to be. The flipside is that you need to watch out for shooting more.

From a "reality" perspective I agree with the sentiment. If you have someone in your army who can turn the tide of the battle with a wave of his hand you're not going to let him stand around somewhere where he can get hurt unless there is absolutely no way around it. You'd tell him to hide in the middle of a unit the moment he sees something which looks vaguely threatening... ;)

Rod

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Fair point, I hadn't read it like that.

I still think they can have a decent impact though, but you don't *need* them, and with points so tight you can save points without them and not be crippled.

I've been toying lately with putting an 'arch'mage on a dragon (not an OotFH, but a regular Divination archmage). It probably isn't optimal but it's an interesting new build I've not played with yet. We'll see if it gets table time (gaming opportunities for me are so limited...)...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:36 am 
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Ferny wrote:
I still think they can have a decent impact though, but you don't *need* them, and with points so tight you can save points without them and not be crippled.

I think this is one of the places where 9th ed. is slowly starting to diverge from 8th. In regular WH, playing without a mage was generally a gimmick and much of a gamble. But then the focus tended to be much more on characters and sledgehammers. 9th is perhaps a bit more subtle here.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:24 pm 
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I had a chat with my Elves the other day and it did not go to well.
I told them their was a new set of " Rules of War " that we would have to follow call revision 1.3 this is when the grumbling started, so I formed a new army roster and some were not happy.
My "Old" Wizard ( have three ) put his hands together and started "Flapping" them, I think.... I think he was giving me the "Bird"? :oops:
This kind of made me mad so I told him he would have to keep up in the Front Rank with the Flame Wardens, he just stood their and turned kind of white and fell over Dead........ This really set off the other two as they said why would you put your 350 year old in the front rank I told them I thought he was kind of Sprite for and Old guy so he could keep up. :twisted: I told the others 2 that one of them would have to take his place, but loot his body first and get the good stuff...... :evil:
This is when it really got bad, the one Wizard cast Fire Ball and burnt my eye brow off, the Witch....errr.... Hot Sultry Wizard "Hexed" me and I was cross-eyed for two days. That kind of sucked. :( I had to wait 3 days till my eyes cleared up then I sneaked up on them in the middle of the night and put a heavy glass beer mug over them. This really set the Hot Sultry Wizard off as she cast some kind of spell that cracked the heavy glass, just glad that one wasn't me head so I just left them to cool off.

This is when I told them I would make an army roster with out any Wiz's or Mages, this didn't go over to well with the R&F and they started grumbling about not having and buffs and damage spells on the enemy.
I told them I have some awesome tough woman coming from the Queen's Guard, everyone kind of Perked up on that and started making sure the their armor was in order.
Well in the end that didn't work out the way I had hoped, the R&F were happy to see the lady's as they looked splendid in their short dress armor but as I had them training in a beach area the lady's took an alcove kind of away from the rest and that's when the "Bitch"......errr Hot Sultry SSgt of the Queen's Guard took her Bow and between two rocks drew a "Line in the Sand" and said any male the crosses this will be shot.
Well that didn't help moral any, so I gave every one some good Elven wine and said to a break tonight and we will start anew in the morning. Err....hmmm... Well next morning we wake up and come to find 4 dead Spearman on the other side of the line and one of the Knights missing. :shock:
Inspecting their camp afterward it looks like they pigged out on Horse meat, not sure I want to find out anything else so I just left it. :?

Ok, two lists one with and one without any thought would be helpful.

Characters: 1513

Mage - 590
Wizard Master, 4 Learned Spells, Gleaming Robes, Divination, Honors Asfad Scholar

Prince, General - 560
Dragonforged Armour, Giant Sword, Lucky Shield, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Shard of Cenyrn, Prince of Ryma,
Elven Horse w/Protection

Commander - 363
Commander BSB,, Dragonforged Armour, Lance, Hero's Sword, Lucky Shield, Charm of the Cursed Iron, Banner of Courage, Elven Horse w/Protection

Core: 1126
32 Spears, FC - 536
10 Lancers, FC, Banner of Speed, - 590


Special: 1498
8 Knights of Ryma, FC, Devastating Charge, War Banner of Ryma - 522 - Will be 10 in this group Prince and BSB
24 Flame Wardens, FC, Rending Banner 776 - Mage will be in this group
2 Eagles - 200

Peace Keepers - 360
2x Sea Guard Reapers - 360

Total 4497

List 2:

Characters: 1513

Prince, General - 560
Dragonforged Armour, Giant Sword, Lucky Shield, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Shard of Cenyrn, Prince of Ryma,
Elven Horse w/Protection

Commander - 363
Commander BSB,, Dragonforged Armour, Lance, Hero's Sword, Lucky Shield, Charm of the Cursed Iron, Banner of Courage, Elven Horse w/Protection

Core: 1126
32 Spears, FC - 536
10 Lancers, FC, Banner of Speed, - 590


Special: 1527
8 Knights of Ryma, FC, Devastating Charge, War Banner of Ryma - 522 - Will be 10 in this group Prince and BSB
25 Flame Wardens, FC, Rending Banner 689
2 Eagles - 200

Elder Service: 563
16 Queen's Guard, FC, Aether Icon

Peace Keepers - 360
2x Sea Guard Reapers - 360

Total: 4499


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Sry to disappoint you, but there are few problems with this list.

First, having 'Prince of Rhyma' honor is setting zero limit to Peacekeepers, meaning Sea Guard Reapers or Gray Watchers are not allowed in such list.
So, I would move PoR honor from the Lord, so you could have quality shooting in the list. In this setup PoR is giving you only additional attack on Lord in the charge, while other benefits like increased Character limit to 45% and Ancient Alias to 25% is not matter in your list.

Second, you have 'Lucky Shield' on both Lord and BSB, while it is 'One of a Kind' item. Since Lord have 4+ ward save, I would give Lucky Shield to BSB.

Other than that, I like the list, Knights and Wardens are great units, first able to hit really hard (with Lord and BSB they will tear almost anything) and Wardens are really durable and can hold a lot.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:01 am 
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Ahhhh.... I get it now.

You are right and will drop the PoR as looking at that you are right.
I did mistype the Lucky Shield as on the BSB should have been Lucky Charm but when I get home I will redo the list and make sure I rethink things a little and repost.


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