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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:31 pm 
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I posted this on my Painting Log, since that's where it arose from... but it occurred to me that the people best placed to give good advice may not frequent the painting forums as much as the 9th Age Forum.

So how does this look as a first draft?

Prince [615]
Ancient Dragon
Prince of Rhyma
Glittering Cuirass
Dusk Stone
Charm of Cursed Iron
Lance
Shield

L2 Mage [165]
White Magic
Asfad Scholar
Ring of Fury
Tome of Arcane Lore

15 Archers [175]
Banner - flaming, Musician

28 Spearmen [338]
Full Command
Heavy Armour

5 Reavers [100]
Musician
Bows

10 Archers [90]

14 Flame Wardens [219]
Full Command

14 Sword Masters [208]
Full Command

5 Knights of Rhyma [210]
Devastating Charge
Full Command
War Banner of Rhyma

3 Reaper Bolt Throwers [180]

2 Eagles [100]

Total = 2,400 points on the nose

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Last edited by Andrew_uk on Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:57 am 
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My first thought is that it might be better to go 2x Swordmasters or a single bigger Flame Wardens block Andrew. The latter are slightly less solid in 9th Age than 8th and 14 might not be enough.

Our go-to man for 9th Age is Ferny but he's at a tournament this weekend.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:29 am 
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Do you mean 2x 7 Swordmasters with the command stripped out? That would only save me 20 points... not even enough for 2 more Flame Wardens

If I pulled the plug on the Swordmasters altogether then I would worry that I lack any sort of high intensity killing power. I mean sure, there's the Dragon and the Prince and the Princes - but I don't want them charging into blocks of rank and file. Swordmasters have always been a very good meat grinder provided you don't care about taking damage in return. The flame wardens give me options; depending on what I see in his army I can either bunker my mage there or deploy the mage in with the archers and use the flames as an extra (albeit small) block.

One option I considered was to get a flame phoenix - I think that would synergise well with the speed of the dragon and the princes? But it comes back to the problem that I need a way to deal with blocks of RnF and I just don't think the mass shooting of the archers/RBT alone is good enough. Maybe the ring on the mage could help if there aren't any better options.

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Check out my rather slow caledor themed painting log and my dragon project... also my faster moving nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos themed painting log


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:02 am 
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I think SA means that you should either change the SM into a big unit of flame wardens or change the FW into SM. 14 FW isn't a substantial enough unit by most peoples standards to be put into a list, while 14 SM are a better deal since they are indeed meat grinders. Still, it's worth giving the 14 FW a try. Conventional wisdom is known to be wrong every now and then. Even in 8th, 15 PG are considered too small a unit. And yet I run it with great succes and they are often the stars of the list. So, following conventional wisdom says go for 2 X 14SM. But don't let that stop you. The downside of the full SM list for instance is that you're moving into a full on aggressive list with little in the way of defence. It's all about combat and charging, and you don't want to run into a list that can shoot you to bits.

I'm interested about how the 28 spearmen play. They should perform much better in 9th then in 8th. But it could be that they don't offer enough and going with more archers could be better. Going more archers and another unit of reavers would give you a threatening shooting phase and would also give you the option to drop the eagles and use those points for something else. But that's without experience with spearmen. Could very well be they're worth all the points put into them.

Rod

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:56 am 
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Andrew_uk wrote:
If I pulled the plug on the Swordmasters altogether then I would worry that I lack any sort of high intensity killing power. I mean sure, there's the Dragon and the Prince and the Princes - but I don't want them charging into blocks of rank and file.

In 8th the Star Dragon eats blocks alive, provided you get past the Challenge issue. I'm not sure to what extent that holds for 9th Age.

Andrew_uk wrote:
Swordmasters have always been a very good meat grinder provided you don't care about taking damage in return.

Swordmasters in 9th Age are more vulnerable than they've been since 6th edition. On the other hand, killing power in 9th Age is generally reduced.

Andrew_uk wrote:
The flame wardens give me options; depending on what I see in his army I can either bunker my mage there or deploy the mage in with the archers and use the flames as an extra (albeit small) block.

Seems a bit expensive to me.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I think SA means that you should either change the SM into a big unit of flame wardens or change the FW into SM.

This.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I'm interested about how the 28 spearmen play. They should perform much better in 9th then in 8th. But it could be that they don't offer enough and going with more archers could be better. Going more archers and another unit of reavers would give you a threatening shooting phase and would also give you the option to drop the eagles and use those points for something else. But that's without experience with spearmen. Could very well be they're worth all the points put into them.

Spears are of course great vs mounted troops in 9th Age ansd static res seems more important.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:08 pm 
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Hello everyone, I am not an expert or anything like that but I think you're using the old version of the rules of 9th age, currently points have doubled to provide better balance to all army, what was once a list 2,400 points is now a list of 4,800 points. But because there are not many changes in points would not change much think your list.

The other change which is significant is the magic, they changed all path, they have different features. White Magic no longer exists. That can change your list and the synergy in it.

In relation to the Core, I think that instead of Spearman is better the Sea guards as they serve the same function, you lose the 4+ armor save but gain a better Shooting phase and they are still good againg cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry and Chariots, you can also leave the Mage in them (Sea guard) and not be a useless unit that can’t charge anyone because they will focus your mage; or simply fill with archers unit and leave your mage on one of them.

I agree that a unit of 14 Flame Wardens is not very effective, since they are not hardest punchers unit and either function as an anchor for your army.

the 14 Swordmaster are very good at CC but fall like flies to an shooting army so depends much against who you are playing is whether or not they are effective. if you manage to arrive to CC this unit is perfect.

P.D. I am trying a new list with 30 SW and 25 FW… with a master of the Canreig tower mage and a Prince in Lion Chariot as my offensive Trident.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Thanks Ktoos.

So with White Magic gone, how is HE magic reflected in the system?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:23 pm 
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Hi look, now there is 10 paths of magic and have diferent names and diferent spells, so i think that the one that match more the White magic is the Cosmology but is not as 8th edition, now we have just access to 3 paths with our mage and 2 more with our loremaster of hoeth (he can whose between 3 path but one is the same as the mage) so the magic did have a big change. the other big change is the war machines... they are weaker but with more wounds, so know i think that the war machine with bigger range can dominate the war machines fight... so I think that with the new meta we have been boosted... now i see more factible big blocks of hard hitting unit with a lot of shooting sopport and magic. I am thinkign of that with our shooting S3 in high amont can kill al the war machines easy (they are T4 with 4W now) so we can focus in get a good movement phase... well as i said in the last post i am not a expert but my elves always struggle with the movement agains high artillery army. The problem that i have with the past edition is that we can't get close to our target with our sufriring major reduction in our units... so I think that this war machine meta will help us.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:44 am 
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Oh wow, I didn't realise there was another new edition.

I'll run it past my opponent next time I see him but my understanding is that this is the latest copy he has; it's what he presented me with and what he has proposed we play to.

4,800 points would certainly be fun!!

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Bring me my bow of burning gold, bring me my arrows of desire, bring me my spear O' Clouds unfold, bring me my chariot of FIRE!

Check out my rather slow caledor themed painting log and my dragon project... also my faster moving nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos themed painting log


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:11 am 
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Andrew_uk wrote:
Oh wow, I didn't realise there was another new edition.

I'll run it past my opponent next time I see him but my understanding is that this is the latest copy he has; it's what he presented me with and what he has proposed we play to.

Neither did I, nor a few others here I think... In the end what matters most is that you both are using the same version I think. Earlier versions were pretty balanced for casual play at least. So that would work well enough.

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 166/18/104


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:58 pm 
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I'm at work, but posting to follow - I can add some details/comments when I'm next online properly.

But yes - 1.2 has changed magic (10 paths) and points (effectively all points are doubled - this allows greater granularity for pricing things, particularly at the lower end of the scale). There are other changes throughout, but for elves those are probably the most notable IMO.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:56 pm 
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We played a game :) I tweaked the list very little from the original first draft, other than I found out we were playing at 2,500 points not 2,400 so I found enough spare for another 6 flame wardens.

So my thoughts;

*I liked 9th a lot!! It feels like its trying to create a game which is balanced, fair and accurately models the tactical challenges of managing an army in battle. While my brother and I attempted this we used 7th as a starting point, 9th clearly uses 8th but I think it's much much stronger than 8th was as a game.

*There's still steadfast and steadfast still isn't broken by flank charges (unless I missed the rule).

*I found there to be more cross referencing than in previous books/editions, though maybe that's just because I'm not yet au-fait with the new terms.

*I don't like the way scenery is generated, for players that own and have invested in modular boards it makes it quite difficult to build the battlefield. I also dislike it because in our battle yesterday it created a very one sided battlefield with a clear tactical advantage to one side (due to hills and walls).

Anyway the battle was short, it lasted just 4 turns. We both had very combat heavy lists; I had my Dragon and Dragon Princes, he had Dark Elves with a Black Dragon, 2 Hydra, 10 Knights on Cold Ones and a cold one chariot.

I tried to build a refused flank and then just smash down his line with my own hammer. It half worked... at first. I tied up both Hydra and the Dragon at just the cost of 1 eagle and the small archer unit, but his 2 units of Dark Riders frustrated my Dragon Princes and pulled them out of the game and my Dragon became frustrated with challenges.

Meanwhile I had a reminder of just how offensive dark elf shooting phases can be. So many repeater shots basically took apart the dragon princes. :(

I think a few thoughts on the course of the battle; 1) I got unlucky with the scenery and sides 2) I was out maneuvered 3) I was unlucky with my dice

I see what you all mean about needing beefier units though. MSU just don't work so well on the whole, though my 5 reavers, 10 archers and 14 swordmasters were I think worth their points so maybe those are the real exceptions. I wonder whether 10 Dragon Princes may be a better investment?

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Bring me my bow of burning gold, bring me my arrows of desire, bring me my spear O' Clouds unfold, bring me my chariot of FIRE!

Check out my rather slow caledor themed painting log and my dragon project... also my faster moving nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos themed painting log


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:52 am 
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One game might not be enough to draw any conclusions from though. MSU is generally a harder playstyle to execute, since it can start unraveling fast if you make a few mistakes. So that could factor into how the list played as well.

I'm glad you had a good game and like the rules. There's always some things to dislike, though as long as the game in general in fun, that's acceptable. On the other hand, I think I've almost never followed the official GW rules for setting up terrain. Not that much reason why T9A should be any different. ;)

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 166/18/104


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