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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:30 pm 
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I just about had my High Elf army assembled when to world died so I never got to play. :(
I always read the posts here and when 9th refined to 1.0 I think I will try again as their are a number of players at a local flg that play 9th.

My army list is a little out of the "box" so looking for some good critics to see where this list might go..
So back into the Box and getting a better Army with the Help

Archmage will go in the Flame Wardens, Mage in with the Spears, Prince in with the Knights of Ryma, BSB in with the Knights.

Archmage will take White Magic, the Mage will do Alchemy.

Characters: 902
Lords:600
Archmage - 310
LvL 4, Book of Arcane Power, Gleaming Robes, White Magic

Prince, General - 290
High Prince of Ryna, Dragonforged Armour, Giant Sword, Hardened Shield, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Shard of Cenyrn, Prince of Ryma,
Elven Horse w/Protection

Hero's: 302
Mage 110
LvL 1, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Lesser Shielding, Path of Alchemy

Commander 192
Commander BSB,, Dragonforged Armour, Lance, Hero's Sword, Lucky Shield, Charm of the Cursed Iron, Banner of Courage, Elven Horse w/Protection

Core: 625
24 Spears, Hvy Armour, FC - 264 - Will be 25 in this group
8 Lancers, FC, Mounts Protection, Banner of Speed, - 236
5 Lancers, FC 125

Special: 696
8 Knights of Ryma, FC, Flaming Lance, Devastating Charge, War Banner of Ryma - 326 - Will be 10 in this group
20 Flame Wardens, FC, Screaming Swords, Rending Banner
370 - Will be 21 in this group

Rare: 275
Great Eagle 55
2x Sea Guard Reapers, Repeater Shot 160
1x Sea Guard Reaper - 60
Total 2498

Any thoughts are most welcome

Edited list for adjustments (first time)

(2nd time)Adjusted the list do to an Error in Army Builder ( Yea had to get the dreaded pencil, paper and Calculator out )
Last update
Well one more


Last edited by zenxzen on Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:22 am, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Hi zenxzen

I've no great knowledge of the 9th Age meta but in general:

Magic looks good, shooting decent, combat OKish. I would be seriously tempted to mount the BSB up and put him in with the Knights. They already hit very hard on the charge but with two fighting characters and re-rolls they can grind as well. If so, I'd drop Devastating Charge because it only gives +1 Attack to Knights in the front rank and two ranks would usually be better.

If you're using the 9th Age's Scenarios (which I believe is very widespread) I'd be tempted to give standards to the Lancers because they then count as Scoring Units. Given this is a Combined Arms list, White Magic would seem to make sense on the Archmage as an all-round enhancer. If so, the Honour is worth a look on him for the extra range.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:29 am 
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Thank You, all very good ideas and thoughts and I will begin looking at the readjustment and then update my list.

I had given the BSB the Banner of Speed to give the Flame Wardens a +1 faster movement but if I put him in the Knights might work out better.

The Commander in with the Archers will at least let them move and shoot, that look ok?

I gave all the Lancers Banners but had to lower the count on Archers and Flame Wardens, that look ok?

I added the Asfad Scholar to the Archmage, so Gleaming Robes and Book of Arcane Power would be on him.

With the BSB and Commander in with the Knights makes that unit total 10, this look ok?

Updating the list I had 5 points left I couldn't put anywhere so I gave the Eagle Lightning Attacks.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:43 pm 
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zenxzen wrote:
Thank You,

You're welcome.

zenxzen wrote:
The Commander in with the Archers will at least let them move and shoot, that look ok?

Yes, removing the -1 penalty for moving and shooting looks useful. This unit needs protecting though. It'll probably bounce enemy light troops but anything substantial would be a danger.

zenxzen wrote:
had to lower the count on Archers and Flame Wardens, that look ok?

On Archers yes, Flame Wardens maybe not but it's the kind of thing where games will show you how many you need. If running White Magic the +1 to Ward save spell takes them to 3++ and can be very effective.

zenxzen wrote:
With the BSB and Commander in with the Knights makes that unit total 10, this look ok?

I think it's workable. Traditionally Lancers are preferred for buses because they are Core and cheaper, so you get more bodies while the characters do the killing. Here, the Knights contribute more killing power and carry Banner of Ryma so the BSB doesn't have to. Again, you might find games convince you to add some bodies.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:08 am 
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I had to re-edit the list do to an Error I have found in Army Builder :oops:
Taught me the value of the Calculator, pencil and paper. :wink:

I did send them the Error report, so I hope they fix it as I love Army Builder.

The Army is a little more rounded as I now have 20 in the Flame Wardens and the Lancers now have full command.

If I was to put the BSB in with the Flame Wardens on foot, this would save me 35 points for losing the Lance and a Barded horse and if I dropped the Swordmasters saving 70 points and the Commander #1 for another 162 points I could add a loaded up Prince with Dragonforged Armor, Ogre Sword, Lance, Hardened Shield, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Shard of Cenyrn and Elven Horse with Protection at 275 points.
I would still need to find 6 more points to drop in the army to get mt to 2500 even.

Thoughts are is the Prince worth what I have to drop, or am I ok where I am.

If players think I need the Prince, I would be ok with that.

Always like feed back


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:36 pm 
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The classic model for a HE cav bus is to build from Silver Helms (Lancers in 9th) for the reasons I mentioned above. Then you add Prince to do most of the killing and tank dangerous enemies on his saving throw. Then you add BSB for support killing but more perhaps, for the re-rolls.

The version with Knights of Ryma brings more killing power in the actual rank and file and the ability to take Banner of Ryma on the unit standard bearer, thus freeing up the BSB to be more of a fighter. This version thus needs the Prince less.

All of that said, the Prince is certainly not a bad idea with the Knights and makes for a really fearsome unit. I believe you need the BSB in also. This is your most important and expensive unit, it needs the re-rolls because while losing combat by lots is unlikely, losing by one or two points happens sometimes and you need as high a chance as possible to pass those Break tests. If not charging, the unit also needs the BSB's high strength attacks. The Flame Wardens depend less on kills and more on static resolution to win combat, so can manage better without the BSB.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:54 pm 
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I think the list looks OK, but there are elements in it I would question. I'll also comment, in so far as I can tell, on changes you've made.

1. I like your magic lore combo - I'm currently experimenting with it the other way round, but both offer good support for this type of list. I also personally think that L4 basically demands BoAP, so you've got that down. If your wizard is goign forward, I'm personally a fan of the robes, but many aren't. But in that unit with White magic is the optimal set up for them, so I think it might work for you. I'm not sure whether you need Asfad if he's likely to be pushing forward, but I do like it in principle...I guess it's a case of playtesting.

2. For my money you're character heavy with the 3 commanders. Why do you have them - what's their role? Could the points be better spent differently, e.g 3 special lion chariots, a second unit of KoR, more rare shooting, etc? Personally, I'd take just 1 commander as the BSB and decide whether I want him mounted or on foot (e.g. as QC).

3. I like MSU scoring lancers. I'd be tempted to give one of them the movement banner and sack flamign from the archers, but YMMV. However, teh archers I question. They're only S3 no AP, even if they are BS4 and QtF in this list. 20 shots with them is limited damage, and you don't need a bunker if your AM is goign forwards (well, a mini bunker for the mini mage, but not your main core block IMO (I'm anti-bunker though, so I'm biased). I'd be tempted to turn them into seaguard so that you have a second block to support your PG, but to sacka unit of knights to bump the numbers up to somethign meaningful. That siad, I'm also biased against archers, so ;).

4. Flame warden set up I like. Alternative champ build is screaming blade, but yours is solid.

5. I'm not sure 5 swordmasters as a reaper guard is entirely sensible. For one, they're not doing much sat at the back. I'd be more tempted to instead have a third reaper which will shoot whilst things are approaching. Or to split the difference and convert a reaper and the SMs into a sky boat which can both shoot and has a charge threat range (although I think 1 reaper and one boat is insufficient rare shooting).

6. KoR - these bad boys need DC IMO, but IMO the champ gains little from sword of strength, so I'd get the points (partly) from there.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:36 am 
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Dropped the Asfad Scholar off of the Archmage
Dropped one unit of Lancers
Dropped 2 Commanders
Dropped the Archers
Dropped the Swordmasters

Added one Prince
Added a 5 point Banner to the BSB
Added 24 Sea Guard in lieu of the Archers
Added 4 more Flame Wardens
Added Screaming Swords to the Wardens Champ
Added 1 more Knight
Added Flaming Lance to the Knight Champ
Added 1 more Sea Guard Reaper

The reason the Eagle is 60 points is after adding the Flaming Lance to the Knights for some fire, their was 10 points I had nowhere else to add.
Any thoughts on doing it this way.

I think this List looks pretty good now and would love some final thoughts.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:17 am 
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Ferny wrote:
For my money you're character heavy with the 3 commanders. Why do you have them - what's their role?

If running the bus I suggest zenxzen needs at least two fighting characters in it. The third guy was mainly shooting support I guess but third RBT seems to cover that cheaper.

Ferny wrote:
you don't need a bunker if your AM is goign forwards (well, a mini bunker for the mini mage, but not your main core block IMO

What Seredain found running a comparable set-up was that the Mage was too exposed. Any time the Core block saw combat, he died. So he got dropped. This might play differently in 9th but I suspect it'll still restrict how freely this block can engage. Archmage safety is also an issue. He'll be fine in the PG majority of the time but sometimes he just won't be safe there and will need a second option. I guess that will be little enough of the time that you can reasonably keep the Core block back on those occasions.

zenxzen wrote:
6 Knights of Ryma

Just too few IMHO. 8 is the minimum I would go with to keep the characters secure. I'm also not sure S6 is enough on the Prince for sustained combats but it might be. I like the bigger Flame Wardens but Knights are more important I believe. In a way the Mage is costing you Knights but Scroll is good and I never feel four spells is quite enough. Cut Flame Wardens maybe. As far as the wizard safety issue goes, Ferny's idea of a mini-bunker (of around ten shooters?) is attractive. But Queen's Guard are pricey and little Archers would compromise your Core set-up. Ho hum!

:)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:40 am 
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Dropped the Sea Guard
Added Spears with Hvy Armour

Dropped Ogre Sword on the Prince
Added Giant Sword to the Prince

Dropped Gleaming Amulet on the Mage
Added Talisman of Lesser Shielding to the Mage

Added 2 more Lancers and Mount Protection to the one set for 8
Dropped 1 Lancer on the other group to 5, no Mount Protection

Dropped 4 Flame Wardens to 20

Added 2 more Knights of Ryma to a total of 8
Added Devastating Charge to the Knights
Added the Flaming Lance to the Knight Champ

This list is looking better everytime I get feed back, I cant thank everyone enough for the Help on this List.

Anymore suggestion would be great !!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:46 pm 
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I could go on suggesting tweaks but I feel the list is certainly functional as it stands.

The thing is to try it now, as you play it, things will leap out at you that none of us can see at this stage!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Thanks All, has been a Great help.... :)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:16 am 
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Ferny wrote:
5. I'm not sure 5 swordmasters as a reaper guard is entirely sensible. For one, they're not doing much sat at the back. I'd be more tempted to instead have a third reaper which will shoot whilst things are approaching.

This reminds me of a tactic Furion used to employ in a shooting HE list (I think in 8th edition).

His repeaters served 2 goals. One was to shoot stuff (obviously). When you have 3 or 4 of them they become a serious threat to small units or lone characters. But the other was to simply serve as bait. The trick is to space them apart so an enemy can't take all 3 out with a single unit in 2 or so turns (with overruns etc). This means that your opponent has to divert serious units to dealing with them. And for their cost this makes them cost effective if it lets you achieve local superiority elsewhere.

SpellArcher wrote:
I could go on suggesting tweaks but I feel the list is certainly functional as it stands.

The thing is to try it now, as you play it, things will leap out at you that none of us can see at this stage!

I agree with SA. The list looks pretty good. Now is a good time to see how it plays but also if it is a correct type of list for you. Not all playstyles and lists suit everyone. I have a regular opponent for instance who is generally so aggressive in his playstyle that shooting / defensive list don't work for him. He doesn't have the patience to wait me out and use the strength of his army to his advantage.

What can also help with further developing the list is to post a short battle report or overview of the battle. It gives us an option to see if we can offer you some advise maybe. But also it helps you review your own performance and to spot any weaknesses in either your list or your play.

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:32 pm 
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I am now working hard :D to get this list ready so I can play.

The Flg I will be playing at has about 8 players and at least 2 of these are Adepticon level players.
They told me they would give me all the support I need in learning how to play my Army and the game in general. :D

Soon as I have my first games I will write a small battle report on how I did and my thoughts.

Good thoughts on spacing the Bolt Throwers, I had not thought of that, the Eagle one and the info on how to best re-direct are really good.
As I finish my list I am going to re-read the battle reports and Tactics everyone here has posted so I don't get totally blown-out in my first games.
I will be Happy if I just give a good showing on my first time out.


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