How do you rate HBE v1.0

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How do you rate HBE v1.0

Perfection
0
No votes
Solid - only need tweaks
11
46%
Better than OK
5
21%
OK
4
17%
Worse than OK
3
13%
Poor - need serious work
1
4%
Abysmal - nerfed beyond any utility
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 24

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Ferny
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How do you rate HBE v1.0

#1 Post by Ferny »

So, with a stable ruleset now out, how do you rate our new AB?
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Toledo Inquisition
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#2 Post by Toledo Inquisition »

I'd say it is a poor book. Assuming average dice all around, I think my Dwarves, Wood Elves, Brets (KOE), Beastmen would all beat the Highborn Elves the majority of the time. Warriors, very matchup dependent , tough to call. My Empire army (Elspeth von Draken, 90% cav) is now unplayable, so I haven't been looking at that book.

There is no way a list with an Ancient Dragon (now much too big a base size by the way) and two bad frosties should cost 75 points beyond their overpriced costs. A few units (Knights of Ryma) got too much love, and the rest got seriously skunked.

I'm pretty much ready to put this army on the shelf for a year, which saddens me. I don't need/want to have a buffed up army to win, but even average builds with my other armies are much better than what I see as a strong build here. Yuck.
Blackbird
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#3 Post by Blackbird »

The most important phase is the movement phase, and we are still very strong there.
I think HB feels stable, alot of ppl are still comparing it with 8th which is weird since all the armies and many of the core rules changed.

I dare you to control the movement phase and say that HB is weak after 10+ games :)
/bbird
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ArhangelusM
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#4 Post by ArhangelusM »

Thanks to ferny for starting this thread. :)

It is interesting info to see and have access to. :mrgreen:
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Toledo Inquisition
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#5 Post by Toledo Inquisition »

Blackbird wrote:The most important phase is the movement phase, and we are still very strong there.
I think HB feels stable, alot of ppl are still comparing it with 8th which is weird since all the armies and many of the core rules changed.

I dare you to control the movement phase and say that HB is weak after 10+ games :)
/bbird
I agree that the movement phase is critical - but have you seen what Wood Elves and Beastmen can do in the movement phase? Even the Dwarves can do so much better than before. I agree we've got better movement than Brets, but I still think the Brets are a better army. In addition, movement is very general dependent - and if we/good Highborn generals are using movement well, wouldn't we be doing the same with other armies? Most armies have fast cav or disposable eagles to some extent.

Here's another thought - why are our monsters so much worse than say Giant Spiders or Giants (per their points that is)? Why can't we get decent fighting characters, via abilities or gear? Have you seen Wood Elves?
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#6 Post by Ferny »

There's a lot of Brett players out there who would beg to differ...

What do you think is miscosted about our monsters? And which ones in particular and by how much? Or do you think others are undercosted?

Our honours *generally* are about synergy rather than making them elite fighters per se - see handmaiden, fleet commander. MoCT is a bit of both - he retains full figthy stats but gains a magical compliment. Dragon mage is the opposite - it adds dragon profile to a wizard, who can supplement dragons combat abilities by casting into combat (2+/2+/6++/2++fire - yes please). Warden's get built in 4++ allowing them to be taken on foot and with combat builds, but aren't more hitty per se (except divine attacks). Our dragons don't need an honour to work, but if you do go full 3 monsters then you also get this bonus A for rider (and dragon!), albeit as. a sweetener to the tax.

But we *do* now have a very cheap cav pricnce honour, meaning with a standard build he can dole out !5! S8 attacks on the charge, and 4 more per round. And the lion commander (BSB) or prince on chariot is now very much a thing, with a few builds kicking around. He *is* a combat beast.

What do woodies get? They get there shapeshifter lone model dude, the wardancer one, a nice foot character build (forest guardian?), a wild rider build? But other than shapeshifter and wardancer, what's to compare? And to an extent its apples and oranges, as tehy don't have MoCT type magic access, or dragon mages, or chariot characters, or pheonix riders etc.
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Cold Phoenix
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#7 Post by Cold Phoenix »

I think the HBE is pretty good, with only a few issues. The number of units in rare is dismaying though. I'd also like to see a few of the magic items reworked and for the phoenixes to get a little love. I do find myself annoyed by some of the other army books though. Some magical items such as the Beast Herd's Dark Rain and Crown of Horns are very, very cheap for what they do. There are also a few units such as Steam Copters which could stand to be more expensive.
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#8 Post by Ferny »

Yeah, rare is crowded. ABC preference would be to shift eagles to special. RT did give a reason for why this didn't happen, can't recall it but could check.

ABC also have some items on their radar.

What love would you like to phoenixes?

RE: other armies - my stock response is to ask their ABC/AS about it :) ;).
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#9 Post by Cold Phoenix »

Ferny wrote:Yeah, rare is crowded. ABC preference would be to shift eagles to special. RT did give a reason for why this didn't happen, can't recall it but could check.

ABC also have some items on their radar.

What love would you like to phoenixes?

RE: other armies - my stock response is to ask their ABC/AS about it :) ;).
I'd like the Phoenixes to cost a bit more in return for some more combat power. As it is, the Flamespyre can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag, but the real attraction to it is the special rules, so I'm not sure if/how it should be changed. The Frostheart is better in combat, but has trouble killing anything apart from t3 infantry and chaff. S5 just isn't effective against Knights, tough MI, Monsters or well armored t4 infantry (such as Saurus, Elite Dwarves or Chaos Warriors). Perhaps it could cost 30-40 points more for +1S? This wouldn't make it as good as it was in 8th, but would make it much better against t4+ and well armored units.
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#10 Post by pk-ng »

Toledo Inquisition wrote: Here's another thought - why are our monsters so much worse than say Giant Spiders or Giants (per their points that is)
I've yet to see Giants been played competitive.
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#11 Post by Blackbird »

I don't think our monsters are bad, they just dont have the same function.
The frostie is an awesome support monster, the dragons are still stronger than most other monster- although expensive.

Dragonprincess, lionguard, lionchariot and swordmasters are pretty good at handling enemy monsters, especially with
support from magic and the new effect from the sky sloop :)
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#12 Post by Toledo Inquisition »

Just a quick drop in, more when I'm not between appointments.

3 cheap Treeman, stubborn all, is very nice. Good players will do bad things to you with that army.

I see Giants not infrequently in Chicago. If I liked the model, I'd take two every time with my Beastmen.

Our monsters are overpriced for what they can do. They are all too slow, not fighty or supportive enough, or too expensive. Not a good mix. Phoenixes either need +1 S, +1T, or M10 for 200 points.

I'll be fair - I wasn't thinking cavalry princes, which you can do things with. I was speaking more of infantry characters. Sure, you can pay extra for a 4+ WS, and then adding magic armor/weapons, but then he is overpriced for what he can bring, just like our monsters.
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#13 Post by Hortennse »

I will just say that I think a lot of people are overlooking one subtle yet awesome thing about our army:

A LOT of elites out there have initiative 5, an absolute crap ton.

Between Phoenix Guard, Swordmasters and I think Dragon Princes(?) We have 3 good/high strength elite units who have initiative 6. In my experience having one better initiative than your enemies is pretty damn awesome if you have the strength to push the wounds through.

I'm afraid we're going to have to get over how completely awful out racial abilities are and find other silver linings about our army.
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Malossar
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Re: How do you rate HBE v1.0

#14 Post by Malossar »

I still think we're a solid book and just need some tweeks. Rare is overcrowded which I feel was a reaction to our shortest timewise of all trials and the super strong queens guard supported by the ancient dragon build. Honestly, with the changes to queens guard I think that would have been enough and the limitation put on flying monsters.

We are outstanding in the movment phase, only dark elves do it better. Strong in combat as well. Ever watched a wood elf player cry when they lose their entire wild hunter bus to knights of ryma? Or charging the knights into a unit of chaos warriors and BLOWING THEM UP! ;) I think it's a strong book with some great combos. Our magic items need some help, would like to see some changes to swordmasters (like seriously how are HBE the elves without a wizard conclave #-o ?) or adding a rule that allows mages to fight in the second rank when accompanying swordmasters (bodyguards of saphery!) One change I'd also like to see would be a level 1 option on all our characters. This would tie us back into being a magical race and wouldn't be that over powered I think. I've also thought that dropping the fleet officer and giving his reform ability to all honorless princes as part of martial discipline would be a great way to add synergy while making an honorless prince worth taking.

Other than that I'd love to talk about new units. We were one of the most written about races during the time of GW and there's still a lot of pieces missing to fill the army out (and yes I have models for them;) )
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