Kit for Ancient Dragon

All discussions related to games of fantasy battles such as AoS, T9A, KoW, MESBG, WAP, Warmaster, etc go here, including army construction, comp creation, campaign and scenarios design, etc...
Post Reply
Message
Author
Nicene
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains

Kit for Ancient Dragon

#1 Post by Nicene »

So I'm looking to try out High Prince on Ancient Dragon. I'm thinking of going points-lights with just a Great Weapon, weighing in at a lean 490 points.

Any suggestions for other worthwhile items to add? The only decent one I can think of is Ironcurse Icon; at 20 points it should allow him to survive an extra cannon shot or two with the new rules for Multiple Wounds.


He'll be running alongside a couple other flying monsters, and a couple flying (and non-flying) chariots, with Swordmasters and Knights of Ryma support. So a pretty fast and hard-hitting list with low shooting and magic. The reason I'm thinking the Ironcurse Icon is a waste of points is that (especially with open lists) he might not be the primary target anyway. Do you think the Icon is worth it?
Cold Phoenix
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:26 am
Location: ACT

Re: Kit for Ancient Dragon

#2 Post by Cold Phoenix »

The Lucky Shield and Divine Icon are both worth considering. The shield allows the bearer's model to ignore the first hit suffered. This doesn't help much if the first hit is a S3 arrow, but you'll be happy on the occasions it eats a cannonball or stone thrower hit. The Icon gives Divines Attacks to the bearer's model, which helps get around ward saves.
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Kit for Ancient Dragon

#3 Post by SpellArcher »

Nicene wrote:The reason I'm thinking the Ironcurse Icon is a waste of points is that (especially with open lists) he might not be the primary target anyway. Do you think the Icon is worth it?
I do. I feel the enemy will be focused on the Dragon, if he doesn't deal with it quickly he's in trouble. Spells are a threat but there are other ways of countering these. Against Poisoned shooting you have the armour and Wood Elves for example can no longer get this from Core.

Talisman of Cenryn is worth a passing look but this is not the ideal use for it.
Ferny
9th Age Moderator
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: Kit for Ancient Dragon

#4 Post by Ferny »

In case these musings help:
So with the new Ridden Monsters rule the Prince cannot be targeted directly, but nor do 'normal' armour or ward items stack onto the dragon (who has a tasty 3+AS mundane, which can't be improved).

Defence:
The following are the only ways I can see to kit out a dragon with any sort of ward save and other protection buffs:
(MA) Force Shield (70): 5++ vs ranged attacks (question - does this include ranged spells?)
(EI) Charm of Cursed Iron (20): 5++ vs artillery (question - are things like ironblasters counted as artillery now?)
(T) Obsidian X (45/30/15): MR3/2/1
(EI) Gem of Fortune (25) - re-roll '6's' to wound from ranged attacks
(T) Gemstone Amulet (15) - failed AS->4++ vs that wound (question - does this count where an AS was not permitted, e.g. 1, spell says no AS, e.g.2, where AP>4?)
(MA) lucky shield (5) - discount first hit
(T) lucky charm (5) - re-roll first failed AS
(EI) Cloak of stars (25) - +2 casting value on unit
(If I've missed any please let me know and I'll edit to add).

This is a kinda interesting collection because most of the best items are actually Enchanted Items (EI) rather than armour or talismans, and you can't take all the ones you might want, despite most of them being quite cheap.

Q1. Is the force shield (70) worth it over the charm of cursed iron (20)? The extra 50pts buys you protection vs small arms fire (and I think magic, in which case it could stack with MR for a max of 3++ vs magic (I'm assuming bolt throwers, ironblasters etc are artillery?)). I would argue that the biggest threat to our big bads is artillery rather than small arms fire so unless you're looking to combine with MR the force shield probably isn't worth it.
Q2. Given that they're mutually exclusive, which is more useful, re-roll 6's to wound from ranged attacks or 5++ from artillery? One protects more against small arms fire, the other against the big guns? For a dragon I'd assume the 5++ vs artillery is best?
Q3. Best of both worlds - if you're going for a max protection build, you could take force shield and gem of fortune for max protection against artillery and small arms fire (this does exclude MR options though). Anyone do this? Is it worth this much of a points sink into ranged protection?

For max, cheap(ish) protection I'd be tempted to go: lucky shield (5), charm of cursed iron (20), MR to taste (15/30/45). Depending on MR this leaves enough points for a +2-3S/A magic weapon. Anyone running this?

Offence:
In 8th, when the Prince was basically a delivery mechanism, TOTS was pretty much mandatory. Is that still the case in 9th with the Divine Icon (Holy Attacks)? For 15pts it isn't expensive, but it takes the EI slot so you can't access the Charm of Cursed Iron or the Gem of Fortune, leaving you stuck without a ranged ward unless you go the whole hog and take the force sheild for 70pts, which suddenly makes the divine icon very expensive.
Q. Is the trade off between ranged defence and CC offence sufficient to warrant taking the divine icon in the EI slot, and if so, do you take force shield or cheaper defence (e.g. lucky shield)?
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8249
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: Kit for Ancient Dragon

#5 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Nicene wrote:The reason I'm thinking the Ironcurse Icon is a waste of points is that (especially with open lists) he might not be the primary target anyway. Do you think the Icon is worth it?
I do. I feel the enemy will be focused on the Dragon, if he doesn't deal with it quickly he's in trouble.
This. Expect the dragon to be the primary target for your opponent. Placing a dragon on the tabel often leads to dragon fever in your opponent, where it's the main thing on the table. And an ancient dragon carries such force concentration that when left alone it can rip through a sizeable part of an army all by itself.

As for options, I would go for defensive items. At 500-ish points, it's a valuable enough target and it pays to protect it.

Rod
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
Post Reply