Ulthuan

I apologies for this question, I don't want to insult or offend anyone with it.

I have a quite large HE collection, I would say it is below 10k points, so it might still be considered a small army by some, but to me it is big enough.
I have read the rumours, that GW made 50% less sales, on 100% higher prices, that the old CEO stepped down, that GW wants to shift WHFB into a skirmish game etc.

So, I was wondering, if I would like to play a WHFB game, but with other rules what would you suggest for me?
Should we play according to a different rulebook? For example I liked 6th edition quite a lot.
Should we play another system (Kings of War)?
Should we try the skirmish version? (Although I never tried any of the skirmish games from the competition, and I never played Mordheim or Blood Bowl, I played a lot of "WHFB Skirmish", this was our tutorial back then).

Are there any other games like Kings of War?
What are your thoughts?

My current favorite is to play warmaster with warhammer models (it takes a BIG table though).

Other than that, as long as you have people to play with you can use whatever edition you want. We actually played a game of first edition over the weekend. In some ways it's a totally different game, in others it hasn't changed at all. It was pretty interesting.

mordheim is a great game, but you will only use about 10 models!

sparkytrypod wrote:mordheim is a great game, but you will only use about 10 models!

In all honesty I'd probably have to say it's my gaming groups favorite game to this day. In part because you only use 10-20 models for each warband. But it's also just solid fun. (And much better than just the old warhammer skirmish rules).

putting together a black orc warband as I type!

have to stay away from elves in it tho, they get way too good so fast.

My only concern if GW shut down, there won’t be enough high quality miniatures to paint and play with, although there are quite good manufacturers on the market already (Raging Heroes, Avatars of War, Scibor etc....) it is just if they would be able to produce enough quantities to compensate GW absence.
In case if GW fails, I hope there will be new players on the market who will develop miniature products suitable for WHFB/40K systems.
Game wise I don't have concerns at all, as community is large and mature, there will be rules, erratas who could replace or upgrade existing one and accepted by majority of WH communities (ETC example).
Most significant effect in my opinion would be that GW systems won’t have clear time-lines and goals in terms of development and new releases. We will miss regular updates regarding army books, fluff, novels etc....
At the end, there are old editions as you’ve mentioned, so you can always play according with it, so your models won't be wasted.

8th isn't going anywhere and most of the army books are complete. So why worry?

Plus I think that the GW is "DOOOOOOOOOMEDDDDD!" line is just the interwebz with their panties in a twist. They have just released one of the best updates to the WFB story in years (Nagash) and there are more installments coming out soon to all intents and purposes. Really what more could we ask for at the moment. I for one can't keep up.

I don't thing GW will collapse, it's no more than wishful thinking of those who hope GW will be 'punished' for its price policy. The complaint dates at least from the mid nineties. GW is still going strong.

Nevertheless, trying other rulesets is nice. To play KoW you can simply download the book and lists from the mantic site, you don't even have to rebase. I do not kow any other mass battle games for fantasy, but they must be out there, probably you'll have to pay though. Of course you can also use an older edition of your choice, especually third edition is the nostalgic choix wih so-called 'Oldhammer' players. Older editions, especially up to 5th, were less streamlined and balanced, but had more options and the system was more open.

For skirmish: try Song of Blades and Heroes by Ganesha games. Very simple, playable with any models, rebasing not necessary.

Crossbows and Catapults? But on an EPIC scale!!!!

Ow, I forget Fantasy Warriors. Never played it, bit of an oldie. http://boardgamegeek.com/image/477849/fantasy-warriors

What Myth said.

I do not agree. If, and that is a big unlikely if, GW collapses, there is both the technology and the talent to set up new enterprises. There is a lot on the market, even in plastic, by several producers: Warlord, Fireforge, Victrix, Perry, Gripping Beast and several others, and that just historics. There is a lot of talent in the market, that, I think, does not always gets chances due to the enormity of GW. Yes, the games will change, perhaps it will take some time that a large, developed game and product system wil, emerge, but I'm sure it will. And if not, there will be many more smaller players on the market in a more globalized world, with perhaps more variation in styles and with several concurring games. No, I do not despair.

Funny thing about capitalism. If somebody fails there are others who are willing to step up and make money in their place.

That said, I think it's far more likely that GW makes changes to warhammer that cause me to stop playing (or more likely play something else) then it is that they fail. But again, as long as there are enough people who are also interested in playing the something else it'll exist.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:That said, I think it's far more likely that GW makes changes to warhammer that cause me to stop playing (or more likely play something else) then it is that they fail. But again, as long as there are enough people who are also interested in playing the something else it'll exist.

As people left GW behind after earlier editions. I do not know your age, but many players eventually leave Warhammer - or leave it untouched - to pass into other games ands scales when the rules, models and policy change. That's a matter of time. Up until now, new generations have started with the hobby, nothwithstanding the prophecies of doorm of older gamers.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:Funny thing about capitalism. If somebody fails there are others who are willing to step up and make money in their place.

This is true. not only that, but if GW did collapse, all those designers, sculptors, fluff-writers etc would more than likely start their own enterprises. Mantic games was started by an ex-GW employee (Ronnie Renton), and the main two designers for their games (Alessio Cavatore and Jake Thornton) are both ex-GW too.

My point? Companies come and go, but the people and talent just relocate. As long as there is an appetite for war-gaming people will continue to create war-games and sculpt model soldiers. Infact, as much as I enjoy Warhammer, if GW's dominance of the field collapsed, it might enable some fresh ideas room enough to flourish

I use warhammer models for Pathfinder/D&D

Aerendar Valandil wrote:

Shannar, Sealord wrote:That said, I think it's far more likely that GW makes changes to warhammer that cause me to stop playing (or more likely play something else) then it is that they fail. But again, as long as there are enough people who are also interested in playing the something else it'll exist.

As people left GW behind after earlier editions. I do not know your age, but many players eventually leave Warhammer - or leave it untouched - to pass into other games ands scales when the rules, models and policy change. That's a matter of time. Up until now, new generations have started with the hobby, nothwithstanding the prophecies of doorm of older gamers.

Haha, lets just say I've been playing since before there were separate army books.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:Haha, lets just say I've been playing since before there were separate army books.

Merde!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VceCMPXskk

If you have a mature group of players, Armies of Arcana are probably the best choice.

There is a fan made fantasy mod for Pike & Shotte that looks like it could be worth a go.

While you could play any number of games (Chainmail?) I'm not sure why you couldnt just play warhammer. I know folks still playing 4th. Its not like you need the GW servers to roll out your models. I've been playing since the game was a pamphlet in early 80's and from a "wargame" perspective 8th seems the tightest ruleset and most dynamic game but explore, have fun, maybe you'll find something that appeals to you. If not you can likely always come back...Somebody will be playing warhammer.

I've been searching for the same sort of thing and have had tremendous fun with Kings of War. You could also try One-Page Warhammer (http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/). I miss the complexity of the Warhammer magic spells in both system but that could be house-ruled.

I've been searching for the same sort of thing and have had tremendous fun with Kings of War. You could also try One-Page Warhammer (http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/). I miss the complexity of the Warhammer magic spells in both system but that could be house-ruled.

+1

I'm in the process of learning Kings of War. It's a warhammer-lite game made from some of the original creators including Alessio.

Axiem

chess on a warhammer themed chessboard

I did actually switch to chess and I like it a lot.

Myth wrote:My only concern if GW shut down, there won’t be enough high quality miniatures to paint and play with, although there are quite good manufacturers on the market already (Raging Heroes, Avatars of War, Scibor etc....) it is just if they would be able to produce enough quantities to compensate GW absence.

Firstly, I cant see GW shutting down.

However, lets go along with the scenario that they did.

So, with no GW to produce miniatures there are still other brands available.

Those that love WHFB too much to let go will still carry on playing it, and that will keep the market going to second hand miniature from places like flea bay.
Then you have brands that produce compatible figures that I believe will carry on producing.
Then of course you have other companies like Mantic who produce games systems and figures, and lets not forget that if a mantic figure is compatible with WHFB then obvioulsy WHFB figures are compatible with Mantic systems.

Then you have the brigade that claims that other manufacturers models are not good enough. If enough of them speak up then the manufacturers have a choice. Improve or get out.

Then of course you have the issue of what happens to all of GW old manufacturing equipment, for example, the moulds etc etc. Well, if they went bankrupt then it would be put on auction and hopefully some company will buy them up with a view of producing the old minitures...simple. If GW chooses to shut down then thats a different matter. They then have the choice of destroying the moulds or selling.

Of course, this is all on the assumption that GW will shut down, which to be honest I cant see happening in my lifetime.

I did actually switch to chess and I like it a lot.
ฮอลิเดย์ พาเลซ

Step 1 - grab your favourite edition of WHFB and a group of like minded friends

Step 2 - make a list of everything that was broken with it

Step 3 - how did future editions try to balance these issues? Did they work in your view? What ideas would you and your friends add to the edition you named in step 1?

Step 4 - begin to rewrite the rules

Step 5 - play!!

Step 6 - Every 10 games or so you should have a review of ALL games played since the last review. That review can consider further potential changes or consider that no further changes are required until you have played more games.

Rinse/repeat steps 4-6 until you have as a group played 100+ games which you are happy with

You could play Age of Sigma instead apparently...

Well now that "9ed" is out I will probably stick to this list.
A shame really.