First list and impressions - Vs dwarfs

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AndrosV
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:21 pm

First list and impressions - Vs dwarfs

#1 Post by AndrosV »

Hey folks


I recently had my first game of the 9th age of warhammer, and I thought I would share my initial impressions under the current version.

My list was as follows:

High prince - Master of Canreig Tower (loremaster)
Lucky charm
GW
Book
Mithril mail


Command BSB
Warden of flame
Bronze plate


Core
31 Coastel guard
full command
HA

2x5 Reavers w. bows

Special
25 Lion guard
Full command
War banner of Ryma

5 Knights of ryma
Devastating charge
Banner of becalming

Lion chariot

8 Swordmasters

7 Shadow warriors

Rare
Flamespyre
Frostheart


My opponent fielded three big blocks, anvil of doom, two warmachines and a copter.

Very short summary:

I managed to tripple charge one of his blocks with the dragon princes and both phoenixes. I rolled well and the unit was reduced enough not to be steadfast. He kills the flamespyre with his shooting and kills the rest of the dragon princes. However that charge left him open for a charge from the Lion guard with the prince. They murder his main block and the game ends there.

As this was only my first game, take the below comments with a pinch of salt :) .

Magic
Wow, that part has really been toned down. However I like the fact that magic does not play such a huge part anymore. It has become very difficult to cast bigger spells, and thus magic works more as support now, which is great. What I don't like is the fact that dwarfs are way way way too good at casting magic. They have so may bound spells, which are fantastic and easy to cast. He dominated that part of the game, which felt akward. So I hope they look more into the bound spells instead of just giving +1 to dispel.

High prince - Master of Canreig Tower
While his casting abilities are not impressive his fighting potential is actually really solid. You give him a great weapon and he hits most things on a 2+ and wounds it on a 2+. He just mowed down the dwarf infantry all game, whether is was core or special troops.

Phonixes
The frostheart deserved the nerf as it was way too good. If we had played with the old frostheart I would just have made the bird attack by itself and watched it tear up his blocks, if it wasn't killed by the cannons before. This is obviously not possible anymore due to the t5 and s5, which limits its abilities by a lot. However it is still a flying monster and the flexibility this brings to your battleplan is still amazingly good. Now you just can't throw it at the enemy line without some backup, which I feel is fair and also makes for a more interesting and challangeing game. So thumps up for these changes.

Shadow warriors
Uh they are good now. Scouts with poison.. Nothing more to say.

Lion guard
Not really sure about these guys. I feel they really suffer from not fighting in three ranks, however the ekstra armor save is nice. Also I5 puts these guys at such a huge disadvantage vs many elven troops. Wild huntsmen (wild riders) with their I6 absolutly murder these guys on the charge.
I think I will try running to units of 10 in skirmish mode in the future. The ekstra manourverbility should help them pick the fights they so desparately need to be a viable choice.

Sword masters
Love them. Only question, as ever, how do we keep them alive in the earlier phases of the game?


Overall
As many others have said, the new HE setup encourages you to run MSU i think. Mayby with one big block of spears og phoenix guards as anvil. However both Dragon princes, sword masters and lion guards seems to work better in smaller groups. I find it very difficult to make small groups of elite infantry work, simply because of how slow they are and not having swiftstride. Both phoenixes and dragon princes worked great as combined chock troops in my game, however I never really got the sword masters involved at the right times.

All in all I really like the changes and it is very refreshing and challangeing. Also it is on the positive side, that they removed the elements in the book that kind of played itself (banner of the world dragon and frostheart - I never thought the book to be as powerfull as people complained about).

Happy holiday to everyone :)
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: First list and impressions - Vs dwarfs

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

Hi Andros, a lot of that chimes with my own thoughts, while you made a few points which made me sit up and think. Oh and well done on winning!

I like Mithril Mail on the Lord, a decent armour save is important I feel, especially because you get the 6+ Ward and -1 to be hit for 'free' as it were. I've seen Crystal on this guy, which is solid magic defence. My gut feeling though is that Scroll plus 'Dawnstone' is the way to go, that re-roll will really help to keep him alive. Again, your BSB is ultra-solid but with the 4+ Ward and a reasonable armour save already I feel Giant Sword is a good bet. I'd be keen to get a magic standard on the Coastal Guard, maybe for Flaming Attacks?

The point about bound spells was very interesting, I'll have to be ready for those!
AndrosV wrote:Phonixes
The frostheart deserved the nerf as it was way too good. If we had played with the old frostheart I would just have made the bird attack by itself and watched it tear up his blocks, if it wasn't killed by the cannons before. This is obviously not possible anymore due to the t5 and s5, which limits its abilities by a lot. However it is still a flying monster and the flexibility this brings to your battleplan is still amazingly good. Now you just can't throw it at the enemy line without some backup, which I feel is fair and also makes for a more interesting and challangeing game. So thumps up for these changes.
Agree completely.

What formation did you have the Lions in, as I think 10-wide is pretty serviceable here and would give you the third rank fighting? I agree on the I5 but if you have both General and BSB tooled up and in the unit, they're going to make a mess of I6 stuff before it gets to strike.

As for MSU, I think it really needs the full complement of 15+ units before we start seeing the deployment and flexibility advantages shine through. Swordmasters look just great for this.

Happy Christmas!

:)
AndrosV
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:21 pm

Re: First list and impressions - Vs dwarfs

#3 Post by AndrosV »

Hi SA,

I ran the Lion guard in a block of five wide, but only due to their low number. Had I had 30 I would have went for horde formation. Very good point you made about the damage characters will make before the wild rider will strike. Initiative is just so important now with ASF gone. As you also suggest it is really amazing we can get a BSB with 4++ and s7. It sounds great, but we will have to wait and see how many actually uses this combination.
Without shield of merwyrm (4++ parry save in old book) and high magic, I find it difficult to make a foot HE character viable due to the lackluster armour save options. The Master of Canreig tower prince takes you along way with his -1 to hit, but I'm not sure I'm confident leaving him with only a 2+ AS and a 6++. However, I'm determined to make this guy work, as I really like the idea of a fighty character with casting abilites :) .

Even though I like the fact that magic has been toned down, it does make me worry how we deal with a lot of the nasty stuff out there. Our characters can't simply go toe to toe with a lot of other characters out there, including: Chaos, Dark elves and ogres. I've always relied on magic to support our troops and especially Arcane unforging was helpful. Uh many of my regular opponents hated that spell :D. Now we have to rely more on the raw power of our troops, which will be interesting to see how that turns out.


Anyway, what is the status of 9th age in your area? In mine there is a lot of people who are fully engaged and playing, which is great. We also have our first tournament in march. So I'm optimistic :)
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: First list and impressions - Vs dwarfs

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

I remember several guys running Black Guard and even Lions in 10 x 2 formation in 8th, so I feel 10-wide is fine for 25, Stubborn helps with this of course.

Yeah, it seems funny that we can get such an efficient Hero fighter now but that Honour gives such a lot. You can even give up Giant Sword for Dawnstone/Lion Fur/Enchanted Shield to get to a 2+ RR/4++ which is insane for a HE BSB. The Lord version is probably our hardest foot character because he can get to that defence and the S7 attacks too. The Loremaster gives a lot magically but having to use the GW and any points spent on Arcane, weaken his defence. Talisman of Cenryn will take down almost anything on two wounds but maybe not ideal for a pure grinding character.

Magic seems to really favour a spam phase approach now. What are the strongest builds for enemy Lords? I still really like the look of a good shooting phase built around RBT, monsters seem like another strength for us. 9th Age is starting to take off in Britain, a couple of tournaments already and a couple more in the next two months.
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