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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:32 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
upgrade my Mage to Level 2 and take the Ring of Fury. In a perfect world I'd use the other points to buy a second Mage, but I'm really trying to avoid painting up another Elf

Have you considered bringing a Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Heavens CR? You could make the Mage also Lvl 2 Heavens. Four spells gives you a 90% chance of getting any spell in the Lore, very efficient. Ring of Fury only has 18” range, problematic in 30” Archers, maybe Ruby Ring instead? Or Cube of Darkness...

CaledorRises wrote:
Adding a Great Eagle to the list. This keeps maneuverability high and a Great Eagle is actually probably better at hunting warmachines than Dragon Princes unless the warmachines are Skullcannons/Ironblasters. It also could act as a second redirector if need be, possibly preventing some of the bad combats I got into at Hockley.

An Eagle, with Fly and that small footprint, is a brilliant redirector. Should be pretty useful as such except against flyer-heavy enemies.

CaledorRises wrote:
Dropping a Frostheart Phoenix and replacing it with an Engine of the Gods Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns and Devastating Charge.

Interesting. I guess the question is how much would you like the second wizard?

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:20 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Have you considered bringing a Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Heavens CR? You could make the Mage also Lvl 2 Heavens. Four spells gives you a 90% chance of getting any spell in the Lore, very efficient. Ring of Fury only has 18” range, problematic in 30” Archers, maybe Ruby Ring instead? Or Cube of Darkness...


Haha, you and I think alike! That was actually my first idea, adding a Skink Priest with the Cube of Darkness and running double-Heavens. Unfortunately I contacted Mark Peat and he said that Lords/Heroes may not be chosen as allies, we can only take Core/Special/Rare units.
I am a bit worried about the range of Ring of Fury, but I'm not sure Fireball is that much better, it adds 6" to the range but it comes at the cost of half the number of hits. I will consider it a bit more, though, I haven't locked the list down yet.

SpellArcher wrote:
Interesting. I guess the question is how much would you like the second wizard?


I'd definitely take a second wizard over the Engine of the Gods, but it would have to be a High Elf wizard. I'm thinking I may need to go ahead and just get another Mage painted up.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 8:33 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
Unfortunately I contacted Mark Peat and he said that Lords/Heroes may not be chosen as allies, we can only take Core/Special/Rare units.

:(

CaledorRises wrote:
I am a bit worried about the range of Ring of Fury, but I'm not sure Fireball is that much better, it adds 6" to the range but it comes at the cost of half the number of hits. I will consider it a bit more, though, I haven't locked the list down yet.

If you had an aggressive Infantry unit you could throw at the enemy then I think Fury would make sense in that CR. I just suspect the extra 6” range of the Ruby Ring would mean an extra turn or two of use, really helpful. Yes it’s only D6 hits but the Flaming can matter, especially if you can threaten a follow-up spell on a Regen target.

CaledorRises wrote:
I'm thinking I may need to go ahead and just get another Mage painted up.

Some of readying my army for the tournament is proving a bit of a grind!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:55 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
If you had an aggressive Infantry unit you could throw at the enemy then I think Fury would make sense in that CR. I just suspect the extra 6” range of the Ruby Ring would mean an extra turn or two of use, really helpful. Yes it’s only D6 hits but the Flaming can matter, especially if you can threaten a follow-up spell on a Regen target.


I am considering removing the Silver Helms and replacing them with Spearmen. It would be a unit I've got more experience with and also does the job of providing/breaking Steadfast in combat, but the disadvantage of course is slower speed and it's much easier for the enemy to score combat resolution off of Spearmen than Silver Helms. I'm still waffling back and forth over it.

SpellArcher wrote:
Some of readying my army for the tournament is proving a bit of a grind!


I know the feeling. My Silver Helms were slammed out faster than any cavalry I've ever done before. Of course they weren't actually completely finished at Hockley and still aren't....


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:32 am 
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CaledorRises wrote:
I am considering removing the Silver Helms and replacing them with Spearmen. It would be a unit I've got more experience with and also does the job of providing/breaking Steadfast in combat, but the disadvantage of course is slower speed and it's much easier for the enemy to score combat resolution off of Spearmen than Silver Helms. I'm still waffling back and forth over it.

How often is steadfast really an issue though? Also, as you mentioned, the spearmen give up combat resolution a lot faster then SH do. So you're less likely to actually win combat (by a large margin). And the SH are a lot more threatening on the charge. S3 attacks don't matter a lot, but the prospect of a bunch of ASF S5 attacks will make some units think twice.

Another thing is that the speed difference is pretty big. The SH unit could be used to chase down fleeing units or to take out warmachines / smaller harrasment / archer type units. The spears really are there as a battleline unit and as such pretty static.

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
How often is steadfast really an issue though? Also, as you mentioned, the spearmen give up combat resolution a lot faster then SH do. So you're less likely to actually win combat (by a large margin). And the SH are a lot more threatening on the charge. S3 attacks don't matter a lot, but the prospect of a bunch of ASF S5 attacks will make some units think twice.

Another thing is that the speed difference is pretty big. The SH unit could be used to chase down fleeing units or to take out warmachines / smaller harrasment / archer type units. The spears really are there as a battleline unit and as such pretty static.

Rod


That's true. I think that it might be a bit of knee-jerk reaction to a game at Hockley against Ogres that went south badly when I had two combats where the Ogres were steadfast which launched my cavalry into grinds that they couldn't win. I'll probably end up keeping the Silver Helms, I just need a bit more practice with them on engaging targets that they can actually defeat or making sure they've got the proper support.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:34 am 
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The interesting thing of WH is of course that steadfast indeed can play a big role. It's one of the reasons a cavalry prince or decked out BSB is a popular choice in a SH unit. They can continue grinding down a unit in a second turn or if you get charged. If you want to use the SH unit as main combat unit then they are definitely the way to go. If you keep them as a support unit then they function fine without the character I think.

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Since lists are due tomorrow I finalized my list tonight. Here's what I've decided to go with. Thoughts?

Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Star Lance, OTS, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Dragon Armor, Shield, Ogre Blade
Mage Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Lore of Heavens
Mage Level 2 w/ Lore of Heavens
22x Archers w/ Musician, Standard
5x Ellyrian Reavers
12x Silver Helms FC w/ Shields
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of the World Dragon
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix
2499

I had to lose the 1+ armor on the BSB which a bit worrying, I have to be more careful about who he fights. I dropped the small Dragon Prince unit to substantially increase the strength of my magic phase, I'll miss the extra cavalry, but hopefully the significantly increased magical firepower will help. I went with Heavens because double Iceshard will be very helpful when facing cannons. Convergence is also an excellent spell for 2+ armor save units, especially considering my ability to fail 2+ saves. Curse of the Midnight Wind is also very strong when used with monster mash because rerolling those 6s to wound will give many armies fits, and rerolling 6s to hit trashes Poison armies. Comet is also very fun if I run into a gunline. I also decided to go ahead and run the BotWD even though I'm not very fond of the item itself. It should provide a small buff to my Dragon, and more importantly will protect the Dragon Princes if they get into a grind and should also help shield them from casualties so that they keep the ever crucial 1 rank for as long as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:14 am 
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This is a step up CR. You now have a solid magic phase. Sure it’ll struggle with a Slann or something but it’ll be fine against most things. The Archer bunker is slightly vulnerable but most foes will be too busy fending off your Monsters to trouble it. World Dragon changes the DP’s from mediocre to something to be worried about. It still might struggle to grind foes down but with all those saves it’s really hard to hurt. It’ll be through anything dodgy in one round.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:32 am 
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Worcester has the following army breakdown:

Orcs and Goblins: 3
Dark Elves: 3
High Elves: 2
Wood Elves: 2
Lizardmen: 1
Nippon: 1
Dwarves: 1
Warriors of Chaos: 1
Daemons of Chaos: 1
Vampire Counts: 1
Skaven: 1
Bretonnia: 1
Empire: 1
Ogre Kingdoms: 1

Coming from Hockley, this breakdown is a surprise to me! Only two High Elf armies seems lower than normal, and I'm also surprised by the low number of Chaos players. It should be a good event with such a wide variety of armies, hopefully I won't have to fight the same faction multiple times.

My first match-up is against Skaven. I think this could be a challenging match-up, depending entirely on how the Skaven player built their list. D6 wound spamming things like Doomwheels and WLCs can be a problem, Hell Pits are more of a threat now that I got rid of the flaming banner. I'm also quite concerned about the Brass Orb and the Storm Banner, both could cause serious problems for my monsters. A list based around the twin towers could be alright for me, the monsters have a good chance of taking down the Bell or Furnace with their high strength attacks and a long grind is doable with multiple thunderstomps. I've also got only one unit that is susceptible to the Dreaded 13th, so that shouldn't be too much danger, either. Skaven have been a troublesome opponent for me in the past, so this will be interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:42 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
this breakdown is a surprise to me!

Me too, usually we get only half that number of players!

CaledorRises wrote:
I'm also surprised by the low number of Chaos players.

I agree, this is unusual. Maybe the overall power level will be slightly lower than Hockley.

CaledorRises wrote:
D6 wound spamming things like Doomwheels and WLCs can be a problem

Agreed. You also mention Storm Banner. You don’t have lots of shooting so as the Skaven player I might even be tempted to activate this Turn 2 when your charges are likely to go in.

CaledorRises wrote:
Hell Pits are more of a threat now that I got rid of the flaming banner.

If the Skaven player is Lynsey you might well see a huge Bell unit flanked by Aboms.

CaledorRises wrote:
I've also got only one unit that is susceptible to the Dreaded 13th, so that shouldn't be too much danger, either.

Nice! In general I like this match-up for you CR.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:48 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Agreed. You also mention Storm Banner. You don’t have lots of shooting so as the Skaven player I might even be tempted to activate this Turn 2 when your charges are likely to go in.


I was actually thinking it might go off as early as Turn 1, considering how much I usually redeploy my fliers. Almost every game I move them the full 20" on Turn 1 to get them into a different/better position from their deployment. If my opponent isn't expecting that, then I'd definitely agree Turn 2 would be the turn to fire it.

SpellArcher wrote:
If the Skaven player is Lynsey you might well see a huge Bell unit flanked by Aboms.


Haha, it is! Thanks for the heads up! Two Abombs leaves enough points for 1 Doomwheel or 1 WLC in Rare, I'd guess WLC would be the choice there, only having one of them is a bit unreliable, but still effective and still a threat. Personally I think I'd prefer to face Aboms over Doomwheels, the D6 wound shots could tear through my monsters pretty quickly in combat or out of it, and while Aboms are certainly dangerous and take a long time to kill, I'd favor a Star Dragon in a fight between the two, and if I got two fliers into a single Abomb I think I could take it down relatively quickly.

What's your first match-up?


I also got two games in yesterday against Ogres with an infantry-based Star Dragon list I wanted to experiment with, so I'll try to get those reports written before Worcester. The games weren't competitive which is why I didn't try out my Worcester list.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:45 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
Thanks for the heads up!

You’re welcome CR. It’s not set in stone (I’ve seen Lynsey mix things up now and then) but that’s what I’d bet on. She’s a solid player who has won this event in the past.

CaledorRises wrote:
What's your first match-up?

This you now know!

CaledorRises wrote:
I also got two games in yesterday against Ogres with an infantry-based Star Dragon list I wanted to experiment with, so I'll try to get those reports written before Worcester.

That would be great.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Game 11: High Elves vs Ogre Kingdoms

Okay, it's technically before Hockley right now, so these are on time, just not as early as I would have liked. We decided to play scenarios instead of simple Battle Line, so this first game was Blood and Glory. I was bringing an experimental list this time, an infantry-based Star Dragon list. It's probably about the least mobile list I've played in quite a while with High Elves, so I thought it would be interesting and a different sort of tactical challenge, the Star Dragon would be there to flank around and support while the infantry held the line.

High Elves:
Prince on Star Dragon w/ Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Star Lance, The Other Trickster's Shard
Mage Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Noble BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Sword of Might
30x Spearmen FC
23x Archers w/ Musician, Standard Bearer
5x Ellyrian Reavers
23x Phoenix Guard FC w/ Razor Standard
18x Swordmasters of Hoeth FC
Frostheart Phoenix

Ogre Kingdoms:
Ogre Tyrant w/ stuff, a Big Name forcing you to accept challenges and a 4+ ward
Slaughtermaster Level 4 w/ a 4+ ward, dispel scroll
Bruiser BSB w/ stuff
6x Leadbelchers
10x Ogre Bulls FC
9x Ironguts FC
Thundertusk
4x Mournfang FC w/ Great Weapons

Magic:
Mage: Urannon's Thunderbolt, Iceshard Blizzard

Slaughtermaster: Trollguts, Bullgorger, Toothcracker, Spinemarrow

Deployment:
With such a slow list I need to do well in deployment. I put the Spearmen and the Frostheart in the center of the board as my first drops because the Spearmen would anchor the flank of my infantry line and I could therefore deploy my line on either side and give nothing away. The Frostheart could move wherever needed due to fly. The Archers then deployed on my far right on top of a hill to get better LOS and maybe be able to shoot over the heads of my infantry beside. The Phoenix Guard with the BSB went beside the Spearmen and the Swordmasters beside them extending the line to meet the Archers. My Star Dragon I put behind the Swordmasters. I deployed my Reavers on my far right, because the Leadbelchers went down on the Ogre right and standing Reavers in front of Leadbelchers = dead Reavers, unfortunately this left the Reavers in a bad position where there wasn't much they really wanted to or could do. The Ogre line had the Leadbelchers on the far right on top of a hill with the Mournfang to their left. The Bulls were in the center with the Thundertusk behind and the Slaughtermaster inside. The Ogre left was the Ironguts with both combat characters ready to engage my infantry. I vanguarded the Reavers up around my right a bit.

Image
Image

Initial Thoughts:
The Ogre magic phase is very strong, he got all 4 of the good spells. The Irongut unit is extremely tough, and there's no one of my units that can engage it 1v1 and come out on top, with the possible exception of the Star Dragon but even that is risky and I would want to stay in challenges. That means I need to engage his units with multiple of mine, which requires one of two cases. Either I ensure my units are closely grouped so that his units, fielded 5 and 6 wide as they were, couldn't charge just one of mine at a time and would pull my other units in, or, much more preferably, I combo charge his units. That second option is by far the best option, but with an infantry list is difficult to pull off. The Leadbelchers are massively out of position and I'm not concerned about them.

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 1:
The whole line generally advanced. They didn't push forwards at maximum speed but instead stayed at about a 10" charge for my elves. The Mournfang moved to flank an advance by my line, and the Leadbelchers pushed forwards.
Magic was a huge 11-6. A bubble Toothcracker went off, then I dispelled a bubble Trollguts. A bubble Bullgorger was one giant spell too many and failed to cast.
The Leadbelchers shot a wound off the Frostheart and 2 Spearmen were killed by the Thundertusk.

Image

High Elves Turn 1:
I decided to shift my infantry backwards slightly instead of charging, making him have 10" charges and setting me up for a counter charge. I also pulled the Spearmen back just enough that the Mournfang couldn't make contact with them due to a rock in the middle of the board. The line also stayed compact and completely even so that any Ogre charge would hit multiple units. The Frostheart shifted right to help deal with the Ironguts and the Star Dragon flew up to turn the flank of the Ironguts. The Reavers realized they were horribly out of position and couldn't do anything useful at all, so started to head back towards my left flank, hoping to be able to interfere with the Mournfang by turn 3.
Magic was 9-5, and a strong casting of Thunderbolt killed a Mournfang! Blizzard and Fireball were then dispelled.
The Archers wounded the toughened Bulls once.

Image

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 2:
The Bulls and Ironguts both went for the 10" charges and both failed forwards. The Mournfang and Leadbelchers continued to advance.
Magic was a terrible 4-3 phase when the Ogres really needed to buff their units. A bubble Toothcracker was scrolled.
The Leadbelchers killed 2 more Spearmen.

Image

High Elves Turn 2:
A massive combo charge was launched, with the Phoenix Guard, Swordmasters, Frostheart, and Star Dragon all hitting the Ironguts. The Reavers moved up to prevent the Bulls from charging the Spearmen by creating a gap too small for the wide unit to fit through. The Spearmen then pulled back a bit.
Magic was 7-6 and all spells were stopped.
Combat was a massacre. The Ironguts killed 8 Swordmasters, but at the cost of 7 Ironguts and the BSB killed outright. The Ironguts broke and were run down.

Image

My opponent then announced to my surprise that the game was over. I had forgotten it was Blood and Glory, and with 4 Fortitude points in the Irongut unit, the destruction of the unit broke the Ogres.

High Elf Victory!

Thoughts:
This game was fast and brutal. The deciding moment was the Ogre charges failing Turn 2, that put them in perfect counter-charge range, which I capitalized on. I think holding back would have been the better option as the Ogre shooting was slightly superior to mine and therefore I would be forced to come to him rather than the other way around. Had the Ironguts held back I probably would have still charged them with the Star Dragon and then tried to bring the Swordmasters up to support the Dragon, but it would have been a very different game.

Since this game lasted so short we decided to step up and go again, this time rolling a different scenario.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Game 12: High Elves vs Ogre Kingdoms

This was round 2! The same lists going in, but this time in Battle for the Pass. The mistakes of last game would not be repeated!

High Elves:
Prince on Star Dragon w/ Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Star Lance, The Other Trickster's Shard
Mage Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Noble BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Sword of Might
30x Spearmen FC
23x Archers w/ Musician, Standard Bearer
5x Ellyrian Reavers
23x Phoenix Guard FC w/ Razor Standard
18x Swordmasters of Hoeth FC
Frostheart Phoenix

Ogre Kingdoms:
Ogre Tyrant w/ stuff, a Big Name forcing you to accept challenges and a 4+ ward
Slaughtermaster Level 4 w/ a 4+ ward, dispel scroll
Bruiser BSB w/ stuff
6x Leadbelchers
10x Ogre Bulls FC
9x Ironguts FC
Thundertusk
4x Mournfang FC w/ Great Weapons

Magic:
Mage: Urannon's Thunderbolt, Iceshard Blizzard

Slaughtermaster: Trollguts, The Maw, Toothcracker, Spinemarrow

Deployment:
This time I had a similar deployment strategy. The Spearmen and Frostheart went in the center as the first drops. The Archers took up position on the hill, hoping to shoot over the heads of the infantry below. Later I would realize that the hill wasn't very tall and Phoenix Guard are very tall themselves, so this ended up not being good, but the idea I liked! The Phoenix Guard deployed to the left of the Spearmen and the Swordmasters to the right to keep them away from the Leadbelchers. The Star Dragon and Reavers went on my right to face off against the Mournfang. Opposite me the Mournfang took the Ogre left, and the Bulls held the center with both combat characters. The Ironguts were on the right with the Slaughtermaster, and then the Leadbelchers and Thundertusk were between the Bulls and Ironguts. The Reavers pushed forwards to redirect the Mournfang.

Image

Initial Thoughts:
I think the Star Dragon and Reavers can handle the Mournfang, so the plan is to make sure that the infantry can hold off the Ogres long enough for the Star Dragon to return. The idea about needing to combo-charge units is the same as last game. The Frostheart would support the infantry as the Star Dragon should be able to easily handle the Mournfang on his own.

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 1:
The line advanced fairly quickly, but staying out of my charge range. The Mournfang forced the issue on the flank, demanding that the Star Dragon or Swordmasters face them.
Magic again was a giant turn 1 phase of 10-6. Trollguts went onto the Bulls as did Spinemarrow. I dispelled a bubble Toothcracker.
The Leadbelchers shot off 4 Spearmen.

Image

High Elves Turn 1:
The Star Dragon failed his charge on the Mournfang. The Swordmasters moved up to assist the Star Dragon, and the Reavers moved to redirect the Mournfang into the center of the table. The Frostheart flew to the left to begin turning the Ogre flank. The Phoenix Guard turned to face the Ironguts and retreated a bit.
Magic was a strong 11-6, but with only a few spells it couldn't do too much. Fireball killed a Leadbelcher, and then Blizzard promptly miscast on the Leadbelchers killing 4 Archers and wounding the Mage. Thunderbolt was dispelled.
The Archers then put a disappointing 2 wounds on the Leadbelchers.

Image

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 2:
The Mournfang charged the Reavers and the rest of the line advanced a bit.
Magic was another solid 9-6 that put Spinemarrow on the Ironguts. Bubble Trollguts then failed to cast ending the phase.
The Leadbelchers then only killed a single Spearman.
The Mournfang obliterated the Reavers on impact.

Image

High Elves Turn 2:
The Swordmasters and Star Dragon attempt to charge the Mournfang. The Star Dragon makes it in, the Swordmasters don't. This puts the Swordmasters in a terrible place, exposing them to an easy charge from the Bulls that would certainly destroy them, though I'd take several Bulls with me. The overrun would then put them into the Spearmen flank. I therefore made a very foolish decision after a long period of thought. I decided to push the Spearmen forwards to draw the Bull charge, hoping the overrun would then take them into the Swordmasters, and the Star Dragon could rear charge the Bulls after dealing with the Mournfang. The Phoenix Guard reformed to make sure the Bull overrun wouldn't hit their flank. This left my entire line horribly disjointed and able to be picked apart individually. The one good move was pushing the Frostheart behind the Ironguts, who would have a 10" charge to hit the Phoenix Guard.
Magic was 9-4 and saw Fireball dispelled before a 3-dice Thunderbolt failed to cast.
The Archers put 3 wounds on the Leadbelchers.
The Star Dragon did 7 wounds and took 1 in return. The Mournfang broke, destroying the banner, and I immediately saw red and tried to chase the survivor down rather than sticking to my plan of reforming. To add insult to injury, he didn't run down the survivor.

Image

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 3:
The Bulls declared a charge on the Swordmasters to bypass my Spearmen and completely disrupt my carefully laid plans. I then promptly remembered the rule I had so critically forgotten. They could flee! Which they did. The redirect sent the Bulls into the Spearmen, and then horrifyingly the Ironguts nailed their Ogre charge into the Phoenix Guard.
Magic was 6-4. Spinemarrow went on the Phoenix Guard, which I didn't bother trying to dispel because I figured they would not be losing combat anyways. A bubble Trollguts failed to cast.
The Spearmen then did a pitiful 2 wounds at the cost of 21 Elves and broke. They escaped the pursuit, and the Bulls had to stop short as they ran into the back of the Ironguts. Mercifully, due to the position of the Spearmen only 6/10 Ironguts managed to make contact with the Phoenix Guard. Their large impact hits flattened 5 Phoenix Guard, though, after a poor ward save only kept 2 alive. The Phoenix Guard then rolled appallingly to wound and only put 4 wounds on the Ironguts plus an additional wound on the Slaughtermaster. However, Asuryan then looked down and took pity on the High Elf battle line and 8/8 subsequent ward saves were passed for a remarkable tie combat!

High Elves Turn 3:
The Frostheart charged in to help the beleaguered Phoenix Guard and the Star Dragon positioned itself behind the Bulls to take revenge. The Swordmasters rallied. In a cruel twist that must surely have come from Tzeentch himself the Spearmen failed their rerollable double-1 leadership and then promptly rolled double-1 for their flee distance.
Magic was 9-6 and saw Blizzard scrolled, Thunderbolt dispelled, and Fireball put 2 wounds on the Leadbelchers.
Shooting was ineffective.
The Phoenix Guard continued their inability to wound anything and the total combat only saw the Ironguts take 5 wounds while the Slaughtermaster took 2 more. The Guard lost 3 members, and won combat heartily, but suddenly that Spinemarrow I let through came back to haunt me and the Ironguts stuck around.

Image

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 4:
The Bulls reformed as they were too wide to do anything else, turning so that the Star Dragon and Swordmasters would hit their front.
Magic was a bad 4-3 that saw a 2 dice Toothcracker on the Ironguts get through the 3 dice dispel and healed the Slaughtermaster. Spinemarrow was scrolled.
The Leadbelchers killed 3 Archers, and the Thundertusk put a single wound on the Star Dragon.
The Phoenix Guard suddenly remembered how to wound, despite the toughened Ironguts and a total of 7 wounds went on the Ironguts and 1 on the Slaughtermaster. The Guard lost 3 members and the Phoenix took a wound. The Ironguts broke from combat and were run down by the Frostheart.

Image

High Elves Turn 4:
The Phoenix Guard, Swordmasters, and Star Dragon all hit the Bulls. The Frostheart moved to flank the Bulls if they managed to hold.
Magic put a single wound on the Thundertusk with Thunderbolt.
The Archers wounded the Leadbelchers 4 more times.
The Star Dragon challenged out the Tyrant as I now knew he had to accept from the previous game. The Tyrant was quickly killed, but managed to wound the Star Dragon once. The Bulls took 14 wounds and 6 Swordmasters died. The Bulls fled a terrible 4", but then Tzeentch intervened again and the Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard both rolled double-1s in the pursuit! The Star Dragon meanwhile had reformed to face the Thundertusk.

Image
Image

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 5:
The Bulls rallied and the surviving Leadbelchers charged the Phoenix Guard flank.
The Thundertusk then tried to hit the Swordmasters with his stone thrower but it scattered onto the Star Dragon and in a cruel twist of fate and a "3" rolled on the D3, the Prince was one-shotted.
The Phoenix Guard put 3 wounds on the Leadbelchers at the cost of 1 and the last Leadbelcher fled.

Image

High Elves Turn 5:
The Guard charged the Bulls and killed them at the cost of 1 elf. The Star Dragon and Frostheart charged the Thundertusk, wounding it 4 times and forcing it to flee, but not catching it.

We then called the game as it was late and the game was decided.

High Elf Victory!

Thoughts:
I thought the Ogres had me on Turn 3. My turn 2 movement failures combined with the successful Irongut charge I thought would see my army destroyed in detail. The only thing that saved me was the legendary stand of the Phoenix Guard, as they passed 10/15 of their ward saves to not lose combat horribly. That was slightly offset by them rolling very poorly to wound, only getting something like 25% of their 4+ wound rolls through, but either way their stand saved the day as the Frostheart then charged the Ironguts and turned the tide in that fight and the Bulls were now stuck behind the Ironguts requiring them to reform in some way and made the charge of the Bulls by the Star Dragon and the Swordmasters almost inevitable. My opponent said he wasn't happy with the way he played the Mournfang, but I actually thought he played them fine and that really there wasn't much he could have done that would have saved them. Once the Reavers got into their blocking position so that they couldn't charge the Star Dragon or wheel past the Reaver block and get out of Star Dragon range, the Mournfang were essentially dead. The real key was that the Mournfang pulled the Swordmasters out of position and drew my Star Dragon out farther than I had initially wanted them to due to my mistake in ordering the pursuit. My opponent then did essentially everything right to capitalize on that success. The position of the Frostheart made the Irongut charge almost mandatory and the Spearmen were horribly out of place, with the Bulls initially charging the Swordmasters and forcing me to flee them, it was very possible that I'd lose most of my infantry in that turn and then, likely, the game. A factor that ended up being crucial was my reform of the Phoenix Guard to face directly towards my opponent's board edge as this meant that when the Ironguts charged in and wheeled around the Spearmen only 60% of the Irongut unit actually got to fight the Phoenix Guard, which most certainly saved them. This benefit for me was entirely accidental, I had wheeled the Phoenix Guard so that the Bulls wouldn't overrun into their flank following the destruction of the Spearmen. I think I made some serious mistakes on Turn 2 after the unlucky failure of the 6" Swordmaster charge, but I also think I did a fairly good job of not losing my head and was able to recover the game. I thought my opponent fought very well and it was a great game!


Tomorrow is Worcester, and I look forward to seeing you there SpellArcher! Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Great to meet you CR! A good event and well played you!

=D>

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:14 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Great to meet you CR! A good event and well played you!


The same to you! It's a shame we didn't get to talk more, but hopefully we'll meet again at Milton Keynes. Tomorrow I'll start writing up summaries of my games, and I look forward to your reports as well!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Worcester Game 1

My first game would be up against the dreaded Skaven! I've had problems with them in the past, so wasn't extremely confident going in to the game. Picture taking this game was a bit lax unfortunately.

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Star Lance, OTS, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Dragon Armor, Shield, Ogre Blade
Mage Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Lore of Heavens
Mage Level 2 w/ Lore of Heavens
22x Archers w/ Musician, Standard
5x Ellyrian Reavers
12x Silver Helms FC w/ Shields
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of the World Dragon
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix

Skaven:
Grey Seer mounted on Screaming Bell w/ stuff
Cheiftan BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Shield, Banner of the Under Empire
Warlock Engineer Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll
Warlock Engineer Level 2 w/ Warp Energy Condenser
Warlock Engineer w/ Doom Rocket
81x Clanrats FC w/ Shields
Warpfire Thrower
45x Skaven Slaves
46x Skaven Slaves
9x Jezzails
10x Jezzails
Hellpit Abomination
Hellpit Abomination
5x Gutter Runners
5x Gutter Runners

Magic:
Grey Seer: Cloud of Corruption, Pestilent Breath, Dreaded 13th, Plague
Warlock Engineer: Skitterleap, Warp Lightning
Warlock Engineer: Scorch, Warp Lightning

Mage: Iceshard Blizzard, Comet of Cassandora
Mage: Urannon's Thunderbolt, Chain Lightning

Initial Thoughts:
The Skaven have vastly superior magic to me, so that's a concern. This means that I am unlikely to get many spells off, but I should have a decent chance of stopping the enemy spells that I need to stop. The Jezzails are a serious concern, I've never faced them before, and I was surprised to hear they are S6 AP shots with a 36" range. That could decimate my Silver Helms and is a real danger to all of my flying monsters as well, particularly since there are so many of them. Getting into combat with the Bell is a priority so that I can kill the Grey Seer and the Bell itself. Once they die, the unit will eventually break after losing many combats. The Abominations are also serious concerns, they have been very dangerous to me in the past. Depending on what my opponent does I will have to decide whether to try and take out the Abominations or the Bell first. Combo charges will be very important here.

Deployment:
I put my Archers with my Mage on my far left flank angled to shoot inwards. Next to them were the Reavers with the Dragon Princes right behind the Reavers to receive some cover. The Star Dragon was in the center of my line, though not the center of the board. The actual board center had both of my Frosthearts flanking the Silver Helms in dead center. The Skaven had one unit of Jezzails on each flank pointing inwards. The Bell was almost in the dead center with one unit of Slaves and an Abomb to its right. The Skaven left had the second Slave unit and the second Abomb. All three Engineers were on the back line outside of units. I had decided to push my left heavily to try and destroy the Skaven right before the Abomb and Slaves on the Skaven left could get involved much and also to stay out of range of those Jezzails as much as possible. The Reavers vanguarded up towards the Jezzails on their flank.

Image
Image

Skaven Turn 1:
The entire line advanced at full speed. The Bell unit in particular marched maximum speed towards my front line. The Abominations went straight forwards as well. The Engineers held back. Magic was largely ineffective. The Grey Seer cast Cloud of Corruption and in a terrible twist of fate it didn't do any damage to my front line and instead killed the Warpfire Thrower, several Clanrats and Slaves, and put a wound on the Abomb. Shooting saw one unit of Jezzails wipe out the Reavers and the other unit didn't do any damage.

High Elves Turn 1:
The Skaven had advanced very quickly, which played into my game plan perfectly. The Dragon Princes charged the Abomb to their front while the Star Dragon and Silver Helms hit the Bell unit. One Frostheart flew to the rear of the Bell unit to charge it next turn and the other Frostheart moved over to support any combat that it might need to. Magic put Iceshard Blizzard on the Bell unit and everything else was stopped. Shooting saw the Archers kill 3 Jezzails, panicking the unit. In combat the Dragon Princes knocked the Abomb down to one wound at the cost of 3 Princes. The Star Dragon then killed the Grey Seer and began to damage the Bell, a few Rats died as well.

Image
Image

Skaven Turn 2:
Both units of Gutter Runners showed up behind the Archers. The Slaves charged the Dragon Princes in the flank to rescue the Abomination. The other Slave unit charged the Silver Helms in the flank to do the same thing. The second Abomb tried to join the action but rolled low. The Jezzails failed to rally and fled off the board. Magic didn't do much, if anything. Shooting heavily damaged the Frostheart in the Skaven rear, knocking it down to 1 wound. The Gutter Runners also began killing Archers systematically. In combat the Dragon Princes finished off the Abomination and turned to face the Slaves. The Silver Helms and Dragon continued to try and destroy the Bell, but didn't finish it off yet. Despite that, enough rats were killed that the Slaves on the flank of the Silver Helms exploded. At the end of the turn, horrifyingly, the Abomination that had been killed stood back up at full wounds!

Image

High Elves Turn 2:
Both Frosthearts charged in, one into the flank of the Slaves engaging the Dragon Princes and the other into the rear of the Bell unit. Magic tried to cast damage at the Abomination but failed to get anything through. Shooting took a single wound off the Abomination. In combat the Dragon Princes and Frostheart won combat exploding the Slaves. The Dragon Princes turned to face the Abomination to get ready for round 2 and the Frostheart turned to face the Clanrat horde. In the main combat the Banner of the Under Empire killed off the injured Frostheart before it got to attack. The Silver Helms and Star Dragon finally killed the Screaming Bell, but due to the Banner of the Under Empire and static combat res the Clanrats won combat and the Silver Helms broke, outside of BSB range. The Star Dragon remained locked in, though.

Image
Image

Skaven Turn 3:
One Abomination crashed into the Dragon Princes to get revenge. The other tried to join the central scrum but a very low roll saw it fail to make it in. Magic accomplished nothing. I believe it was this turn that my opponent fired the Doom Rocket, tired of me consistently dispelling Skitterleap. However, the rocket misfired and injured the Engineer. The Jezzails then decimated the Silver Helms. The Gutter Runners also trashed the Archers, causing them to panic. In combat the Star Dragon killed the BSB and a few rats. The Abomination killed a few more Dragon Princes and took a few wounds.

Image

High Elves Turn 3:
The Frostheart charged the Slaves in the flank and the Silver Helms and Archers both rallied. Magic put Iceshard on the Clanrat horde. In combat the Dragon Princes injured the Abomination more, but lost all but 1 of their number. In combat the Clanrats took many more casualties but held firm.

Skaven Turn 4:
The Gutter Runners advanced to shoot the Archers more and the second Abomination crashed into the Star Dragon. Magic was ineffective. In shooting the Archers and one Mage were killed by the Gutter Runners while the other Mage withered the storm of slugs unharmed. In combat the Dragon Princes finally killed their Abomination again. The second Abomination was severely wounded after the Star Dragon attacked it and also unleashed its breath weapon to make sure this Abomination stayed down, dropping it to 1 wound. At this point the Prince was on 1 wound and the Star Dragon knocked down to 3 by the continual combat grind. However, the Thunderstomps gave the monsters the win and this time, finally, the Clanrats broke and the Frostheart ran them down. At the end of the turn the Abomination next to the Dragon Princes exploded into two Rat Swarms.

Image

High Elves Turn 4:
The Dragon Princes charged the Rat Swarms and the Silver Helms charged the Abomination in the flank. The Frostheart flew down to deal with the Gutter Runners. Magic cast Comet right next to the Jezzails. In combat the Rat Swarms were all killed and the Abomination was also killed with the Silver Helms overrunning.

Skaven Turn 5:
The Gutter Runners killed the Mage. The Jezzails decimated the Silver Helms killing all but 1 of them. The Engineers ran around to save themselves.

High Elves Turn 5:
The Frostheart charged one unit of Gutter Runners forcing them to flee, and then redirected into the other unit and killed them all. The Dragon Princes charged the Warlock Engineer in the tower who fled. The Star Dragon moved to stay out of range of the Jezzails and try to kill another Engineer. The last Silver Helm ran to grab the Arcane Ruin on my side of the board for +1 TP at the end of the game.

Skaven Turn 6:
The Warlock Engineer fleeing didn't rally, the Gutter Runners did. The Jezzails tried to get out of range of the Comet, one Engineer went to grab their Arcane Ruin. The other Engineer miscast Skitterleap and killed itself and the fleeing Engineer too, which had already been damaged from a previous miscast. The Comet did finally come in an missed the Jezzails by 1".

High Elves Turn 6:
The Frostheart killed the last Gutter Runners.

17-5 Victory

Thoughts:
I'm lacking a bunch of pictures, but hopefully the moves were simple enough that they could be guessed. My opponent didn't bring a list that I was extremely afraid of, the Storm Banner and Brass Orb, which were my big concerns, were not present. They also didn't have a WLC, which was a pleasant surprise. The Jezzails were definitely dangerous, though, and probably played the roll of a WLC, taking 4 wounds off a Frostheart and killing ~9 Silver Helms. I think my opponent's big mistake was advancing full speed on Turn 1. My list was designed to be in combat, and I desperately wanted to get my Star Dragon into the Bell. My opponent made the Turn 1 charge almost impossible for my to fail, I believe it was a 13" charge or something like that. This meant that on Turn 1 I killed the Grey Seer which definitely turned the game as the Skaven leadership collapsed quickly after that. One Slave unit lasted just 2 rounds of combat and the other one exploded on the turn it charged the flank of the Silver Helms. The Star Dragon also did exactly what it was supposed to do, first killing the Grey Seer, then the Bell, then the BSB, and then grinding the Clanrats until they broke. My magic was a bit disappointing, I was able to get one spell through every phase but not much more than that. Iceshard Blizzard hitting the Clanrats also helped break them. More importantly the enemy was never able to have an effective magic phase. A few castings of Warp Lightning was all, and I always made sure to stop Skitterleap to prevent the Doom Rocket. When the Abomination stood back up I thought I was in serious trouble, but fortunately it didn't cause too many problems. The BSB with the Ogre Blade was crucial here as otherwise the Dragon Princes wouldn't have stood a chance. Ironically, in this game the BotWD didn't help at all and I would have been better off with the Flaming Banner they originally had.

The first game was a very solid victory and I'd be moving up to Table 2 for Game 2, facing off against the evil Dark Elves.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:23 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
The same to you!

Thank you.

Looking at the first Ogre game, I think the Slaughtermaster should make a difference, with his magic and combat ability. The Swordmasters might be a bit vulnerable to Leadbelcher fire. The main issue for me though is still that there are no Ironblasters to counter your Monsters. It remains a good match-up for you.

For my money, the Ironguts should absolutely be deployed 3x3, fronted by all 3 characters, much tougher. I was interested to see whether the Frostheart would try to hold up the Ogre right. I take the point about the difficulty of getting off combo-charges with Infantry.

Early game seemed a bit chess-like but those failed charges proved fatal. What happened to the Ironguts was brutal. How do you think the game would have gone if the Ogre charges had gone in?

I’ll try to catch up with the Skaven report when I can!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:16 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I was interested to see whether the Frostheart would try to hold up the Ogre right.


Mournfang with Great Weapons I thought were a serious threat to a Frostheart, and I thought that my opponent had positioned the Leadbelchers a bit poorly keeping them so far on the flank considering their 24" range. I thought that I could achieve more with the Frostheart using it to support my infantry on the right and taking advantage of its speed and hoping to keep the Ogre right out of action for a bit longer.

SpellArcher wrote:
Early game seemed a bit chess-like but those failed charges proved fatal. What happened to the Ironguts was brutal. How do you think the game would have gone if the Ogre charges had gone in?


The second game didn't have a similar moment, the Irongut destruction was definitely a very unique situation! I think if both Ogre charges made it in I'd probably lose, that's just too many impact hits and too many Ogres to deal with without my monsters engaged. If either individual charges had gone in I think I could still have won but it would have been a very different game. The wide frontage of the Ogre units and the way I deployed my infantry meant that his charges would have hit several of my infantry units rather than isolating them, at which point I'd rely on the steadfast Phoenix Guard to hold and then wait for the monsters to counter-charge on my turn. I think that while my infantry was all formed in the line, unless all of his Ogres made it in at the same time he would be very hard pressed to break my line in one round of combat before I could counter-charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:38 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
Mournfang with Great Weapons I thought were a serious threat to a Frostheart

Agreed, I’ve played that fight out before. Redeploying the Phoenix to the right proved very effective.

CaledorRises wrote:
I think if both Ogre charges made it in I'd probably lose

Good call because the chances of that were pretty low.

In the second game the deployments indeed seemed reminiscent of the first. Keeping your Infantry that compact was very interesting. I did think the Mournfang advance a bit rash but in retrospect it might indeed have been for the best. Your line getting disjointed must have been uncomfortable, I had a similar decision to make in one of my Worcester games. Your PG holding did seem critical because this held up the Bulls too. Once the Ironguts broke that seemed to be that. A bit painful for your Prince but mainly mopping up by that stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:38 pm 
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The Skaven omitting the Storm Banner was helpful and I agree that a Warp Lightning Cannon would have been a threat, Lynsey killed my Frostheart with one last time I played her. She’s got a lot of magic but the spells mostly aren’t dangerous to your Monsters. Jezzails can be a threat but are expensive, have dodgy Leadership and often miss. I’d say +1 match-up to the High Elves.

I didn’t like the gap to the left of the Bell unit at all, it took the second Abom so long to get into the fight. Agree completely the rapid Bell advance was unwise, it should have waited for support. Getting the Silver Helms in alongside the Star Dragon really helped, otherwise Challenges might have really slowed it down. As it was you killed the Grey Seer immediately which was indeed fatal for the Slaves.

Hard to plan for the Abomination reanimating but you dealt with it. Interesting that even with good play the Prince and Dragon still suffered plenty of wounds. When the Engineer Fled from the building I believe that was illegal, pg 128. I agree World Dragon didn’t seem to do much but presumably it stopped the Skaven hammering the Dragon Princes with shooting/magic.

Well played! Looking forward to the grudge match.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Worcester Game 2

Grudge match time! I'd only faced Dark Elves once before, so I wasn't completely positive on what I'd be up against.

Dark Elves:
Supreme Sorceress Level 3 w/ Lore of Dark Magic w/ stuff
Sorceress Level 2 w/ Lore of Shadow w/ stuff
High Beastmaster mounted on Scourgerunner Chariot w/ Cloak of Twilight, Obsidian Amulet
Master BSB w/ Stuff
35ish Darkshards w/ Shields
35ish Darkshards w/ Shields
Hydra
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
6x Shades
10x Doomfire Warlocks

Magic:
Supreme Sorceress: Power of Darkness, Doombolt, Bladewind
Sorceress: The Withering, something else

Mage: Thunderbolt, Iceshard Blizzard
Mage: Iceshard Blizzard, Curse of the Midnight Wind

Initial Thoughts:
This isn't a Dark Elf list I would have expected. It's a pure gunline and isn't aggressive at all. I've actually never faced a pure gunline before, so it will be interesting. Especially because this board was the desert of Khemri and there was virtually nothing to obscure line of sight in any direction, a small tower and a small house on the edges of the battlefield being it. This will be a tough fight, if I can get to him, I can kill him, and easily. Getting to him is the hard part.

Deployment:
My Silver Helms and Archers took the center of the board next to a Frostheart. On my right, hiding behind a house, was the second Frostheart, and on my left obscured a bit by the tower was my Star Dragon and my Dragon Princes. The Reavers were between my left and center. He put his Darkshards in the center of the board with their back edges on the table edge. The bolt throwers were slightly forward of this, spaced out along the line. The Doomfire Warlocks were on the left and vanguarded forwards. His right flank had the Hydra and the Beastmaster. The Shades popped into the tower. I moved my Reavers forwards into the center hoping to get turn 1 and be able to obscure a bolt thrower or two.

Image
Image

Dark Elves Turn 1:
The Beastmaster and Hydra advanced forwards and the Warlocks aggressively charged up as well. Magic put Doombolt into the Frostheart, wounding it once. Shooting killed all the Reavers and single bolts shot down 4 Silver Helms. The Beastmaster shot 3 wounds off the Star Dragon.

High Elves Turn 1:
Figuring my opponent had made a serious mistake with the Warlocks, the Frostheart promptly charged them. The Silver Helms then decided that theirs was not to question why, theirs was to do or die, and charged full speed up the center of the board. The Star Dragon tried to charge the Hydra but fell short. The Dragon Princes moved forwards enough to get a charge on the Hydra next turn but not enough for the Hydra to easily charge them. The Frostheart on the other hand wanted cover and wanted the Hydra to engage so it flew up full speed. Magic accomplished nothing and shooting only took 1 wound off a Bolt Thrower. In combat, disaster struck! The Doomfire Warlocks rolled 5 Poisoned hits out of 13 attacks, and then the Frostheart failed all 5 5+ armor saves and all 5 5+ ward saves to die!

Image
Image

Dark Elves Turn 2:
The Doomfire Warlocks advanced on the Archers. The Hydra took the bait and charged the Frostheart while the Beastmaster moved up to support the Hydra and give it extra attacks. The rest of the field stayed still. Magic I think killed some Archers but nothing else. Shooting killed the Silver Helms to an elf and then decimated the Archers, causing them to panic. Combat went my way with the Frostheart surviving uninjured and putting 3 wounds on the Hydra.

High Elves Turn 2:
The Archers rallied. The Star Dragon charged the High Beastmaster and the Dragon Princes charged the Hydra. Magic tossed Iceshard on one of the Bolt Throwers. In combat the Hydra was easily killed and the Frostheart turned towards the center while the Dragon Princes overran slightly before bumping into the Star Dragon. The Star Dragon killed the Beastmaster and then ran his chariot down without suffering any damage.

Image

Dark Elves Turn 3:
The Warlocks charged the Archers and some of the Darkshards wheeled to get good shots. Magic didn't do anything. Shooting killed 4 Dragon Princes and I believe it injured the Star Dragon more. In combat the Warlocks beat the Archers but didn't run them down.

Image

High Elves Turn 3:
The Archers fled off the board. The Star Dragon turned to face the line of the nearest Darkshard unit. The Dragon Princes charged the nearest Bolt Thrower and the Frostheart charged the Shades. Shooting saw a massive breath weapon attack kill off 18 of the Darkshards in the near unit and injure the Supreme Sorceress. In combat some Shades died, but they held. The Dragon Princes killed their Bolt Thrower and the overrun barely clipped the Darkshard unit taking them into combat.

Image

Dark Elves Turn 4:
Due to time this was to be the last turn of the game, so my opponent ran the Doomfire Warlocks over to take the corner of the table necessary to get +5 TPs. The rest of the army remained stationary. Magic was again ineffective and shooting injured my Star Dragon a bit more, but not badly. In combat the Frostheart killed the remaining Shades.

High Elves Turn 4:
The Star Dragon joined the Darkshard fight and the combat saw all the Dark Elves except the BSB killed, who failed his leadership and exploded.

12-8 Victory which turned into a 12-13 defeat after my opponent scored the +5

Thoughts:
That was brutal and gave me many more reasons to hate Dark Elves. I honestly think that my victory was entirely due to capitalizing on my opponent's mistakes. Had my opponent not attacked with the Hydra and the Beastmaster, and had his Bolt Thrower been a bit better placed to not allow me to overrun into the Darkshards, I think I would have lost, and badly. The table not having much of anything in the way of cover also didn't help. The Silver Helm charge I was hoping would draw away bolt thrower fire, or would have 1-2 survivors to charge down a bolt thrower, but in the end the Darkshards decimated the unit on their own. I think if the Doomfire Warlocks hadn't killed the Frostheart I would have had a much better shot at victory as well, but that was just some bad luck. Magic didn't accomplish anything this game for me or my opponent, but that was partially because his spells were too short ranged for his gunline army, I think better lores could have been chosen for him. As I had guessed at the beginning, once my combat units made it in they easily won every battle they fought (excepting the Warlocks), which definitely turned the game. Incinerating that many Darkshards with the Breath Weapon was crucial to breaking Steadfast later and to an extent I'm glad the Star Dragon didn't have a unit to overrun in to following the death of the Beastmaster. In hindsight I should have tried to push one flank much heavier, if both Frosthearts and the Silver Helms were on my left flank it would limit my opponent's ability to kill them all due to the limited deployment space available, but the Silver Helms at least had been positioned in the center as an early drop to draw out my enemy's Bolt Throwers in particular, so I'm not sure how much I could have done to protect against that, and turning to go to a different flank wasn't an option as a single bolt would kill them all.
Having now faced a gunline, I can say I don't like them! It was fun to burn 18 Darkshards with a single dragon breath, though, that felt very much like something from a fluff book like the Sundering trilogy.


For my final game I would be staying at Table 2 and would face off against a cavalry/artillery park Empire army!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:28 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
The Skaven omitting the Storm Banner was helpful and I agree that a Warp Lightning Cannon would have been a threat, Lynsey killed my Frostheart with one last time I played her. She’s got a lot of magic but the spells mostly aren’t dangerous to your Monsters. Jezzails can be a threat but are expensive, have dodgy Leadership and often miss. I’d say +1 match-up to the High Elves.


Agreed. I was pleasantly surprised to see the list that she'd brought, I thought I had the edge.

SpellArcher wrote:
I didn’t like the gap to the left of the Bell unit at all, it took the second Abom so long to get into the fight. Agree completely the rapid Bell advance was unwise, it should have waited for support. Getting the Silver Helms in alongside the Star Dragon really helped, otherwise Challenges might have really slowed it down. As it was you killed the Grey Seer immediately which was indeed fatal for the Slaves.


Definitely the gap was an issue, particularly with the random movement Abomination. I was worried about challenges, which was the deciding factor on sending the Silver Helms instead of a Frostheart.

SpellArcher wrote:
Hard to plan for the Abomination reanimating but you dealt with it. Interesting that even with good play the Prince and Dragon still suffered plenty of wounds. When the Engineer Fled from the building I believe that was illegal, pg 128. I agree World Dragon didn’t seem to do much but presumably it stopped the Skaven hammering the Dragon Princes with shooting/magic.


The Dragon took 2-3 wounds from the Abomination, the other wounds were incidental once. The Prince taking damage was just due to Lynsey throwing every attack she had at it, eventually some will get through considering the length of the grinding combat and the Banner of the Under Empire. You are completely right about the building! I never play with actual buildings, so I don't know the rules. Due to the rapid advance of the Skaven the Dragon Princes were continually in combat and safe from shooting/magic unit the Abom killed the standard bearer! Ah well, can't help every game!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:16 pm 
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First thing I noticed is that the Dark Elf Lords total seems illegal. Looks like the chariot has not been included in the allowance, otherwise that is over 25%. In terms of efficiency the High Beastmaster is dangerous but that set-up is no way worth 500+ points. I also agree about the magic, both Sorceresses on Shadow would be more effective.

Overall, the shooting is formidable. Darkshards are fine if the enemy comes straight at them but they’re a bit static and range-limited. Warlocks are broken. 2 x 5 is the go-to for more spells but that unit of ten still looks very dangerous. I don’t think your list is worse CR but this may be a par match-up. I’m suspicious of the Darkshards deploying on the table edge. A failed Panic test is instantly fatal and they can easily be out of range of the enemy for too long. On the flipside your list is very fast, so I can see the reasoning.

Losing the Frostheart so quickly was unlucky but that’s a tricky combat. There’s always the chance with Poison that it goes berserk at some point (as I found out in Game 3). The Phoenix is only likely to kill one model per round and any Break test will be Steadfast. Were the Warlocks throwing boosted Doombolt or didn’t the Winds allow?

A small point, under the house rules the BSB no longer dies on a failed Break test. I felt overall this game played out fairly predictably, your units in front of the DE’s died but the flank attack was very effective, albeit it might have needed more weight if Andy had played cannier, as you say.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:02 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
First thing I noticed is that the Dark Elf Lords total seems illegal. Looks like the chariot has not been included in the allowance, otherwise that is over 25%. In terms of efficiency the High Beastmaster is dangerous but that set-up is no way worth 500+ points. I also agree about the magic, both Sorceresses on Shadow would be more effective.


The Chariot actually comes free for a Beastmaster, that's why he's 300 pts. He has to be mounted. I agree on the choice of lords, I'd go for a Dreadlord over a Beastmaster every day.

SpellArcher wrote:
Losing the Frostheart so quickly was unlucky but that’s a tricky combat. There’s always the chance with Poison that it goes berserk at some point (as I found out in Game 3). The Phoenix is only likely to kill one model per round and any Break test will be Steadfast. Were the Warlocks throwing boosted Doombolt or didn’t the Winds allow?


To be honest I didn't remember that they had Poison when I did the charge, I'd never fought against them before this, and only remembered the 4+ ward. I was hoping the grind would eventually take them out, but it probably wasn't the best combat to be in, support would have been nice. In hindsight I probably should have put the second Phoenix over with the Star Dragon to strengthen that flank assault.
Andy never attempted to boost Doombolt, but definitely had the dice to do it. I was surprised that he didn't try it, and I'm not sure why he didn't, it could have been a bit of inexperience, he was referencing the book quite a bit.

SpellArcher wrote:
A small point, under the house rules the BSB no longer dies on a failed Break test. I felt overall this game played out fairly predictably, your units in front of the DE’s died but the flank attack was very effective, albeit it might have needed more weight if Andy had played cannier, as you say.


Very true about the BSB, but fortunately we did roll the flee distance and he did run off the board, so the game result wouldn't have changed. I agree about the game going mostly as expected, it was still a tough fight, though!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:33 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
The Chariot actually comes free for a Beastmaster, that's why he's 300 pts. He has to be mounted. I agree on the choice of lords, I'd go for a Dreadlord over a Beastmaster every day.

Now I understand. At the least though I’d go with something like 4+ Ward, Charmed Shield, Ogre Blade.

CaledorRises wrote:
To be honest I didn't remember that they had Poison when I did the charge

They have no right to be as good in combat as they are.

CaledorRises wrote:
Andy never attempted to boost Doombolt, but definitely had the dice to do it.

2 units of 5 Warlocks each threatening this is crazy hard to defend against because they’re so fast and 4D6 S5 hits just wrecks things.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:16 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Now I understand. At the least though I’d go with something like 4+ Ward, Charmed Shield, Ogre Blade.


The build he had I think could be quite good, but it definitely had no business being in combat. With the magic resistance and the ward to shooting the character was quite resilient against anything outside of combat. That's another reason I think moving the chariot forwards was a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:14 pm 
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Worcester Game 3

The final game of the event! Still on table 2 I was up against an Empire army. My memory is getting a little fuzzy, so hopefully I don't leave anything out. Should write these faster. This scenario had two Giants in the center of the board that were worth 200 VPs each and would randomly determine their actions each turn. One giant looks suspiciously like a Flamespyre Phoenix, but rest assured, it's a giant. I will say that this was one of the most fun games of Warhammer I have ever had, my opponent was a great sport and we were laughing and joking throughout the whole game.

Empire:
Grand Master w/ Runefang, Other Trickster's Shard
Jade Wizard Level 4 w/ Dispel Scroll, mounted on Warhorse
Captain BSB w/ stuff mounted on Barded Warhorse
Warrior Priest w/ stuff mounted on Barded Warhorse
10x Knights of the White Wolf (Knights w/ Great Weapons)
11x Inner Circle Knights
5x Reiksguard Knights
5x Pistoliers
3x Demigryph Knights
Helblaster Volley Gun
Helblaster Volley Gun
Great Cannon
Steam Tank

Magic:
Jade Wizard: Throne of Vines, Dwellers Below, Flesh to Stone, something else he never used

Mage: Iceshard Blizzard, Comet of Cassandora
Mage: Harmonic Convergence, something else

Initial Thoughts:
His list is deadly. The artillery is a serious danger to my monsters and my cavalry both, and will need to be dealt with quickly. The core of his list is very similar to mine, based around combat cavalry. He has the durability advantage, I've got the speed advantage. It will be very key to see who gets charges off, but due to my speed advantage I think I've got a good shot at it. I'm most concerned about the massive bus and the artillery park.

Deployment:
I was on the same barren table as before, but this time the enemy had less shooting and the shooting was shorter range, so I was less concerned. Again my Archers took the center, flanked by both Phoenixes. The Silver Helms went left of this core and the Reavers farther left. On my right the Star Dragon and Dragon Princes sheltered behind the house. Opposite me the Knights of the White Wolf were on his right with the Demis to their left and the giant bus with all characters in the center. The Reiksguard were on their flank and the Pistoliers on the left of that in the center of a large artillery part and the Steam Tank. I vanguarded my Reavers off to the left to try and get behind his lines and the Pistoliers went straight forwards.
There was one Giant in the center of the board and one off on the right between the cannon and my Dragon Princes.

Empire Turn 1:
One Giant tossed a boulder at the Demigryphs doing no damage and the other picked flowers.
The whole line advanced forwards. The Demigryphs charged the Giant in front of them. The Pistoliers moved up right beside the Star Dragon outside of its charge arc. The Steam Tank promptly misfired and took a wound. Magic cast Throne of Vines and all other spells were stopped. Shooting knocked 4 wounds off the left Frostheart from the Cannon. A Helblaster shot 2 wounds off the Giant on my right. The Demigryphs then put 4 wounds on the Giant in front of them.

Image
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High Elves Turn 1:
The unengaged Giant charged the Steam Tank and headbutted it for 1 wound.
I then saw an opportunity to combo charge and cascade combats. The Silver Helms and the injured Frostheart charged the Demigryphs while the other Frostheart charged the Giant. The Dragon Princes also charged the Giant that had engaged the Steam Tank. The Star Dragon then moved up to deal with the Steam Tank and warmachines next turn. The Reavers circled around the enemy line. In magic a Mage miscast Iceshard onto a Helblaster and killed several Archers while also ending the phase, except for me dispelling Throne. Shooting saw 2 wounds taken off the other Helblaster. In combat the Frostheart killed the injured Giant, stealing the kill from the Demigryphs, then overran into the Demigryphs which triggered that fight. In that engagement some poor dice rolling by my opponent saw 4 wounds taken by the Demis at no injury to the Elves. The Demis broke from combat and were run down by the Frosthearts. The Silver Helms overran into the Knights of the White Wolf. The Dragon Princes then killed their Giant and overran to hit the Cannon behind.

Image

Empire Turn 2:
The Inner Circle Bus bravely continued forwards, the charge would have been very far so he chose to instead ensure the charge next turn. The Reiksguard moved to flank the Silver Helms and the Pistoliers moved behind the Archers. The Steam Tank tried to engage the Star Dragon but a truly terrible roll on movement saw it fall short. Magic tossed Throne up again. Shooting killed more Archers. Then, in one of the most impressive displays of firepower I've ever seen, both Helblasters opened up on the Frostheart with a single wound. And didn't hurt it. The Steam Tank tried to fire its cannon at the Star Dragon, but overshot as the range was point blank. In combat the Dragon Princes killed the Cannon and turned to face the Volley Guns. The Silver Helms then killed 4 of the Knights of the White Wolf at the cost of 2 Elves and ran the humans down.

Image

High Elves Turn 2:
The Star Dragon charged the Steam Tank, the Dragon Princes charged the Volley Gun. The Reavers and both Frosthearts moved to set up rear charges if needed on the Bus, while the Silver Helms swift reformed and moved to get out of the charge arc of the Reiksguard. The Archers shuffled forwards to get a shot on the other Volley Gun. Magic put Convergence on a Frostheart for lack of anything better to do. Shooting couldn't kill the Volley Gun. Combat saw the Dragon Princes destroy their Volley Gun and overrun into the next one. The Star Dragon knocked 6 or so wounds off the Steam Tank.

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Empire Turn 3:
The Bus charged the Archers and the Pistoliers moved around to take shots at the Frosthearts. The Reiksguard moved to rear charge the Silver Helms again. The Steam Tank, realizing it was in a doomed fight, went for full power and self-destructed. Unfortunately, the explosion did no damage to the Star Dragon. In magic I dispelled Throne but allowed Flesh to Stone to go through as I figured the Archers wouldn't kill anyone anyways. Shooting failed to injure the Frosthearts. In combat the Archers were thoroughly trashed, and didn't do any damage. My opponent then said the fateful words, "If you roll a double-1, I'll..." He didn't manage to finish his sentiment as I promptly rolled a double-1 for Leadership. I immediately burst into uncontrolled laughter that I think disrupted the entire tournament. A minute or two later the Dragon Princes killed the last Volley Gun and reformed towards the Bus.

Image

High Elves Turn 3:
The injured Frostheart and the Reavers charged the Pistoliers. The other Frostheart and the Dragon Princes charged the Inner Circle Knights in the rear. The Silver Helms marched full speed away from the Reiksguard to stay safe and the Star Dragon moved to engage the Inner Circle Knights next turn. In magic I tried to go for a Comet and drop it right on the Mage's head, but for some reason my opponent didn't go for it and dispelled it. In combat the Pistoliers had killed 2 Reavers with the stand and shoot but were then wiped out. The Archers and my last Mage were killed by the Knights, but 6 Knights died as well and they broke and fled, however, were not run down. I regretted letting Flesh to Stone go through as this definitely saved the unit much more pain.

Image

Empire Turn 4:
The Knights rallied. Magic managed to cast Throne and Flesh to Stone on the Knights as without my wizards my dispel attempts failed. The Reiksguard moved behind the Dragon Princes.

Image

High Elves Turn 4:
The Dragon Princes, Frostheart, and Star Dragon all went in against the Inner Circle Knights. Combat was a tough battle against very high toughness Knights, but I think 2 or 3 of them did die, and far more importantly the Empire attacks did not do any damage, as the Grand Master attempted to use his Runefang to kill the BSB, only for the Banner of the World Dragon to be revealed, saving 1 of the 2 wounds caused and keeping him alive. The Empire unit was summarily run down, with the Star Dragon pursuing off the board while the Frostheart and Dragon Princes stayed on.

Empire Turn 5:
The Reiksguard charged the rear of the Dragon Princes and after a heroic effort from the BSB (and some truly terrible armor saves) 4 Reiksguard were killed without loss to the Dragon Princes and they ran.

At this point my opponent conceded the 1 surviving Reiksguard would be killed, and conceded defeat. I had the objective to seize a table quarter with my Frostheart that had ended up on the board edge, so couldn't achieve it this turn. I decided that instead of extending the game to turn 6 by not attacking the Reiksguard survivor so that I could score the extra 5 TPs I would accept the sword of my opponent.

20-0 Victory!

Thoughts:
This game was incredibly fun, we were laughing through all of it, and a large source for laughter was just how terrible my opponent's dice were, and how good mine were. I nailed every 10" overrun or pursuit in the first few turns to wipe out the artillery park and catch all of the Empire units. I also made the crucial Leadership save with the Archers. My opponent in turn failed an astonishing number of 2+ armor saves, (2 on the Reiksguard at the end and 2 Knights of the White Wolf were killed by horses). The utter failure of the Helblasters was also astonishing, and the Steam Tank not making it into the Star Dragon was almost an insult. All that being said, I do think I played this pretty well. The cascading charge through the Giant to the Demis to the Knights of the White Wolf completely collapsed my opponent's right flank, and using the Giant to leapfrog into the Cannon on the other flank signaled the end of his artillery park. The Star Dragon on the charge was the perfect counter to a normally difficult to shift Steam Tank, and that completed the defeat of my enemy's left. At that point it was just circling in towards the center to destroy the Bus.


Final Tournament Result:
I ended with 69 TPs, and scored 3rd place out of 18! An immediate extra source of laughter was that I was pipped to 2nd place by a single TP. If I had extended Game 3 to secure that table corner I'd have gotten 2nd! Ah well. I was also very surprised and pleased to learn that I had won Most Sporting as well. This tournament was great fun, and I'm looking forwards to the next one!



I'll post up some After-Tournament Thoughts next.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:56 pm 
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The Grand Master is dangerous but I can’t help thinking a 1+ AS alone isn’t enough on a Lord lacking ASF or something. The magic is decent, Dwellers is almost always a threat. The Prayers can be a handful, though Flesh is the only spell here that kind of works with them. No Magic Missiles for example though. Helblasters lacking Engineers aren’t that scary but those two cannon are clearly the issue. Again I feel this is probably a par match-up, possibly a +1 to you CR.

In general I like your deployment. Archers can take pot-shots at the Helblasters, Frosthearts stay flexible, Dragon in cover for the flank attack. Dragon Princes are the main Dwellers target and they’re miles away from it. Your units fighting in the centre might miss the BSB but obviously that turned out not to be an issue.

Getting stuck on the Giants was obviously a real problem for your opponent because it set him up horribly for those charges. After those Overruns he’s already in huge trouble. I think what really killed him off though was the failure of his T2 shooting. After that he’s toast. Your Archers deciding to hold on snake eyes was just rude! But the Dragon is always coming at some point and that’s terminal.

There’s a saying in chess, a good player is always lucky! (Dr Tartakower perhaps). Great tournament result and richly deserved Best Sports CR. Thanks for the reports!

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