8th edition High Elves in action

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Galdor
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8th edition High Elves in action

#1 Post by Galdor »

Hi guys,

I've decided to start up this blog to document battles I'll be playing in an upcoming 8th edition tournament and hopefully others in the future (if people keep playing 8th).

The tournament I'm going to is called BunkerBrawl and will have 36 players for 6 games of 2400-pt 8th edition. Scenarios will include Dawn Attack, Meeting Engagement and Battle Line. It doesn't have a specific army comp but there are some restrictions/rules: No units >450 pts, max 5 flyers, max 4 war machines, look out sir save for characters against spells such as Dweller's, magic resistance overrides no saves of any kind. They also have Blood and Glory-based rules in every battle which give you an additional 250 victory points if you break the enemy's fortitude, but breaking fortitude does not end the game. Also, killing over 50% of an enemy unit gives you 25% of their starting points. Some of the End Times stuff is allowed (but not horde armies) and they have also made some rules for the Stormcast miniatures for 8th.

With all this in mind, here is the list I have submitted:

2398 pts

Prince Cerendor, Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon, Dragon Helm (276 pts)

Archmage Galdor, Lvl 4, High Magic, Dispell Scroll, Talisman of Preservation (290 pts)

Noble Elbereth, BSB, Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, BotWD, Lance, Shield (172 pts)

Noble Anlyth, Sword of Anti-Heroes, The Other Trickster's Shard, Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour (139 pts)

17 Silver Helms, Shields, FC (421 pts)

5 x Reavers, Spears, Musician (90 pts)

5 x Reavers, Spears, Musician (90 pts)

23 x Phoenix Guard, FC, Razor Standard (420 pts)

3 x Repeater Bolt Throwers (210 pts)

1 x Frostheart Phoenix (240 pts)

1 x Great Eagle (50 pts)

I have gone for a large unit of Silver Helms led by the Prince and two nobles. The Prince has Seredain's classic build. Hopefully the noble with The Other Trickster's Shard and Sword of Anti Heroes will provide some additional punch and also pushes the BSB to the second rank (he is quite vulnerable otherwise as he has the banner so can't take defensive magic items). My Phoenix Guard will be supported by the Archmage who will be running High Magic to boost their ward save; 3++ Phoenix Guard are very formidable! The spells I will be hoping to get in most games are Walk Between Worlds and Arcane Unforging. The former will be great for getting my SHs into very dangerous positions and getting my Phoenix Guard closer to the action if they get left behind. The latter spell is always very handy and with a bit of luck can destroy some very dangerous items (I'm thinking Nightshroud). My worry with the Archmage though is that he will be quite vulnerable in a combat unit and his ward save may not be enough to keep him alive. My plan therefore is to reform wide when anticipating a charge to try and keep him out of base contact with the enemy where possible. The Frosty will be an excellent distraction for enemy missile fire - most enemies will want to be rid of him as quickly as possible - as well as providing valuable support to my two combat blocks when needed. The RBTs will hopefully be great at clearing enemy redirectors to stop them from blocking my Silver Helms or Phoenix guard.

I am looking forward to seeing who I get drawn against in the first round (Dawn Attack)!

Here is a pic of the same army in action vs. Warriors of Chaos a few months back:

Image

Thanks for reading and I'd love to get your thoughts on the list etc.
SpellArcher
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

Great stuff Galdor!

My first thought is that MR vs no save spells, plus Look out Sir plus points for Fortitude is a recipe for Deathstars, I'd expect to face several.

The list looks strong. You may not get a lot of spells through but defensively you should be fine with 3++ and 2++ on your main units. Probably not worth six-dicing Convocation though!

Keep us posted!
Galdor
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Location: London, UK

Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#3 Post by Galdor »

Thanks SpellArcher. Yeah, I think I'll avoid 6-dicing anything unless I desperately need to get a spell off. Even with a 3++, a lot of PG could die!

They have announced the armies that will be competing in the tournament:

Dark Elves = 5
Warriors of Chaos = 5
High Elves = 4
Orcs & Goblins = 3
Ogre Kingdoms = 3
Lizardmen = 3
Vampire Counts = 3
Daemons of Chaos = 2
Wood Elves = 2
Empire = 2
Skaven = 2
Dwarves = 2

As you can see, a lot of Elven armies! I have never played against Dark Elves before so I will need to read up on them a bit. Any tips would be appreciated! I think my PG will be quite effective against other Elves in general though, having I6, the ward save, and not having great weapons.
Last edited by Galdor on Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Galdor
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#4 Post by Galdor »

Just found out I have been drawn against Lizardmen in the first game (Dawn attack). Another army I have never played against in 8th so I'm really looking forward to it!
SpellArcher
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#5 Post by SpellArcher »

Expect to find lots of Fast Cavalry in a Dark Elf army Galdor. The Warlocks in particular are very dangerous, they can for example 6-dice boosted Dombolt from an advanced position (Vanguard) turn one, watch out for this, kill them. Usually plenty of shooting. In combat ASF cancels out but they still re-roll with Hatred, that and re-rolling 1's to wound can turn ugly. PG are good against them but Witch Elves are an issue, especially if your Archmage is in there.

Have you seen this thread re Lizardmen?

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=69510
Galdor
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#6 Post by Galdor »

There are some good tips on that thread, thanks. If my Lizardman opponent uses High magic I'll have to watch out for Arcane Unforging on my BSB or Prince. I think my RBTs will be particularly useful in this match up to soften them up a bit before I commit to combat. Hopefully, I can get the Frosty in combat with the Temple Guard if I face them. His thunderstomp will help with the grind...

Dark Elves sound scary :? Especially those Warlocks. At least my Silver Helm unit will be protected from their magic missiles with BotWD.
Galdor
Posts: 112
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Location: London, UK

Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#7 Post by Galdor »

Here is a game-by-game summary of the BunkerBrawl tournament I went to recently -

Game 1: Dawn Attack
Opponent: Lizardmen
Result: 20-0 victory
High Elves' man of the match: Frosty

Image

I was looking forward to playing Lizardmen whom I'd never fought in 8th edition. My opponent was a really nice guy with a very very nicely painted army. His list was basically comprised of an enormous unit of Saurus containing a Slann supported by plenty of Skink skirmishers, an Ancient Stegadon, and Salamanders. There was also a Bastiladon and some sort of character on Carnosaur. My plan here was simple: get the Frostheart and either the Silver Helm bus or PG into his Saurus unit and hopefully break it to kill the Slann. I felt confident that the Frosty would make a big difference in this combat with the -1 to strength and his thunderstomp. I would have to try not to be chaffed out by the Skinks. We both deployed, not too out of position despite the random element of dawn attack, although I was hoping to get my SHs on a flank. I managed to put a few wounds on the Bastiladon early on and removed quite a few skinks with RBTs and Soul Quench over the course of the battle. I got a flank charge on one unit of skinks with my Reavers at the risk of dangerous terrain; I was worried about their poisoned ranged attacks killing my Frosty. I think I only lost one Reaver. We both advanced tentatively. On my turn 2, I declared charges on the Saurus unit with the Frosty and SHs. The latter failed to make it so the Frosty was in on his own... Fortunately for me he managed to do enough damage with his thunderstomp to hold against quite a big static combat resolution. It's worth mentioning that he had some kind of hero with high strength attacks that was capable of taking down the Frosty and he did inflict a wound or two over the course of the battle. I later managed to charge the unit with my SHs. After two turns of combat I had done sufficient damage to break and run down the unit and the Slann. Meanwhile my PG were fighting off the Salamanders and Skinks and my Eagle distracted his Stegadon. The 3++ ward had thankfully saved my PG from getting fried by his flaming attacks earlier on. I think I had basically only lost a few Reavers and the Eagle by the end of the battle. Overall I was pleased to have got a much better result than I'd expected but felt I got pretty lucky with some key rolls too (e.g. when the Frosty was in combat on his own).


Game 2: Battleline
Opponent: High Elves
Result: 0-20 defeat
High Elves' man of the match: Phoenix Guard

Image

This time I was up against an unusual High Elf list with Teclis, Prince and BSB on foot with a massive unit of Spearmen, RBTs, a monster (monsters from Monstrous Arcanum were allowed) that I found out did 2D6 thunderstomp attacks and any successful wounds against him must be rerolled! I made a major mistake in this battle that ultimately cost me the game. Anyway, I didn't get the first turn but advanced aggressively when I could. Perhaps too aggressively, though, as he was able to charge my PG with his monster on turn 2 and was in base contact with my Archmage whose ward save couldnt prevent him from being squashed... My PG were brave and held for several turns even though they failed to inflict a single wound on that horrible thing! My big mistake came when I subsequently declared charges. I had the option of using my Frosty to support the Helms with their charge on the Spearmen/Teclis unit, but instead opted to go to the rescue of the PG. This was the wrong decision as the Frosty failed to make a difference and fled the combat along with the PG who were then caught. At the same time my Helms fluffed their combat due to botwd protecting the unit from my characters - It was a draw - I think the Frosty would have given me the edge. He got Mindrazor off in the following turn and my SH unit met their end.... A disastrous second game.


Game 3: Meeting Engagement
Opponent: Warriors of Chaos
Result: 11-9 victory
High Elves' man of the match: Archmage

Image

This was my favourite battle of the tournament and against a great opponent. It was so close and could have gone either way! After my recklessness in the last battle I was determined to be a little more cautious here. I was facing a Slannesh-themed list with Daemon Prince, BSB on disc, warriors, hellcannon, chaos ogres, chariot, Galrauch (a two-headed dragon who can cast spells) and Marauder Horsemen. So quite a cool and varied list! The meeting engagement rules also made the game interesting. I got to deploy second knowing where all his stuff was, which gave me the edge. I deployed deep, hoping he would come to me thus giving me time to wear him down with RBTs and magic. My RBTs were great, getting his DP down to one wound. I failed to finish him off though and 2 of the RBTs were destroyed by the DP. My Frosty charged his Dragon and they fought it out over a number of turns. He charged his BSB in to help but this proved to be to his detriment as my Frosty turned all his attention on him and dutifully crushed him (despite the eye of Tzeentch - I was very lucky here!). The Frosty, however, was eventually killed by the dragon. My Archmage did well this game, getting off Fiery Convocation on the Warriors which led to their demise as my opponent opted to not dispell it in subsequent turns. My Archmage even overcame a miscast on 2D6 Hand of Glory without any trouble ! Eventually, my SHs made it into combat with the Ogres and slaughtered them in a turn. However, I had not killed enough of his army for a decisive victory and losing the Frosty, RBTs and Reavers cost me a fair number of points.



Game 4: Battleline
Opponent: Vampire Counts
Result: 10-10 draw
High Elves' man of the match: Phoenix Guard

Image

After a fairly heavy night out in Colchester I was a bit bleary-eyed and I think it showed in my play. I felt rather confident as I was facing what I perceived to be a fairly soft Vampire list. Never understimate your opponent! The Terrorgheist was the only thing I was particularly worried about, although it turned out that he was the least of my problems. After a cautious start in which both of us advanced very tentatively and the only real damage inflicted was on one of the mortis engines with soul quench and RBTs, I became impatient and charged my Silver Helm bus unit into his vargheists. While they had no trouble taking them out, I was suddenly in no-mans land surrounded by crypt ghouls and zombies; I was charged on both flanks and head-on. To make matters worse my opponent did well and got off a load of buffs and hexes which resulted in him having rerolls to hit and to wound. I also failed my fear test at LD 10 rerollable and was hitting at WS1. I lost the combat, albeit narrowly; they broke, two of my opponents units failed to catch him but the third got a 9, matching my roll, and thus destoyed my bus. It was now left to the Frosty and phoenix guard to save the day. Thankfully they were up to the task and manged to kill his lord through combat resolution, as well as the ghouls and mortis engine. It was very close in the end and I was lucky to get a draw after exposing my SHs to multiple charges in that way.



Game 5: Battleline
Opponent: Wood Elves
Result: 7-13 defeat
High Elves' man of the match: Great Eagle

Image

Another army I had not yet played in 8th edition! I was relishing the opportunity to crush our treacherous tree-hugging cousins! This was very wishful thinking though. My opponent was a very skilled player and knew some clever Eagle-related tricks to keep my SH bus out of meaningful combat for some time. His army was beautifully painted with a nice winter theme, putting my army to shame. My plan here was to play super aggressively: He was fielding Waywatchers which I had heard can decimate our precious cavalry. He also had Durthu and another Treeman, a load of Archers, and a character on dragon: So plenty of monsters again! On his first turn I got shot up quite a bit, losing a few SHs, but it could have been much worse. My army advanced at full speed while my RBTs shot back prioritising the Waywatchers. Durthu and his little mate charged my PG. My champion challenged to minimise damage to the unit and Archmage from Durthu. My ward was at 3++ so that helped too. I actually won the combat, managing to sneak a wound on the treeman who fled whilst Durthu held. In my next turn I charged the Frosty at the Waywatchers who fled and I redirected into a unit of Archers. My SH bus charged the first Eagle, who fled, then the second, who also fled, leaving my prince extremely frustrated... The Frosty did well but didnt break the unit's steadfast. On the next Wood Elf turn, the Waywatchers failed to rally, the Dragon destroyed an RBT and overran towards the next. My eagle then declared a charge on the Waywatchers who fled off the board! The Frosty destroyed the unit of Archers and BSB. The PG bravely fought on versus Durthu who killed the Archmage (a big blow for me) and the other treeman who rejoined the fight. My SHs eventually tried to rescue the PG but the positioning was such that only the Prince was in base contact with Durthu. By turn 6 I got Durthu down to 1 wound, but my PG broke when his Dragon got involved and were run down. On turn 6 his mage also got off Pit of Shades on my Frosty killing him, which, along with losing the PG, lost me the game.. A close game again and one I could have won if I'd got that one last wound on Durthu and my Frosty hadn't fallen into a hole!


Game 6: Battleline
Opponent: Orcs and Goblins
Result: 0-20 defeat
High Elves' man of the match: RBT crewman - the last Elf standing.

Image

By game 6 I was starting to feel a bit battle fatigued! (not an excuse for my inept leadership though!) The major problem I had here was not appreciating what some of his units were capable of. I was also facing lore of undeath which I hadn't encountered before. My opponent was fielding an enourmous unit of frenzied orcs with all his characters inside, goblin wolf riders, various war machines and crucially pump wagons. I had little idea what the rules were for any of it (despite my opponent's patient explanations), but was hoping it would go something like the Lizardmen game. I was really hoping for Fiery Convocation in this game for the big unit but had to make do with Soul Quench to do some damage. I pushed forward in my first turn trying to set up my SHs and Frosty for a charge on the big orc unit. In the meantime my opponent was busy raising swarms and at some point got some hexwraiths on the board! His war machines did relatively little damage. However, in my hasty advance I was a little too close to his pump wagons with my SHs (at the time I wasn't worried as I had no idea of the damage they can do on a charge). He managed to get charges off with two of them on my SH bus, the impact hits did not allow armour saves and resulted in the loss of 12 SHs. The SHs lost combat, fled, and were caught - I couldn't fully comprehend what had just happened. I never recovered and the PG could not do enough against the overwhelming numbers thrown against them. I played on until turn 6 but lost everything in the end..


Final position 26/36


Summary

I had a great time overall although I left feeling a bit frustrated, in particular at my mistake in the last game. I had played some skilled and experienced players though and got some tips from them after the games. The closer games were definitely the more fun and memorable ones for me. I think I paid the price of not knowing the enemy well enough at times. My brother also went along to this (Warriors of Chaos) and did better than me coming 20/36.

As for my list, I think its major weakness was having the Archmage in with the PG. He was just too easy to kill even with 3++ and my opponents were quick to target him in combat. I think I would mount him and have him in with the SHs next time. I also wonder if getting Crown of Command on the SHs would be a good idea as this could have saved me couple of times in the tourney! Still, I liked my list on the whole and would want to keep the PG block rather than go down the route of Star Dragon/additional Frosty (comp allowing!). With more practice I can hopefully improve my play and place a bit higher next time.
Last edited by Galdor on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
SpellArcher
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#8 Post by SpellArcher »

This is brilliant Galdor!

I have some of my stuff to post up but will look forward to commenting here.
Galdor
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#9 Post by Galdor »

Cheers SA. Look forward to getting your thoughts!
SpellArcher
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#10 Post by SpellArcher »

Thank you.

These mini-reports were a pleasure to read, summarising nicely and the pics were nice and clear. I definitely think blue dice help! Knowledge of other army books can have a big effect, so I'm not surprised it handicapped you a little. How did you feel about the Monstrous Arcanum stuff overall?

Game one looked very good, you spotted a vulnerability and went straight for it. Quite right about risking the Reavers I think. Poison can do nothing to the Frosty or it can take him down in short order and he was key to your victory here. As discussed before, if you get him in he'll usually hold and keep grinding, especially if you have BSB close. Blizzard Aura is very powerful.

The only game I lost in my tourney with the 8th HE book was vs a Teclis list. Although they can hold quite, I feel PG need to be careful about engaging monsters because they struggle to put wounds on. I'm slightly surprised your Archmage went down quickly, how many attacks did the thing have? World Dragon is a sod for you because both bus and Frosty depend on magical attacks. The PG should do a number on his block though, the trick is getting them in there.

The Warriors game looked like fun! I feel you were right to hang back and use your shooting. I love your opponent's Galrauch model! The VC game showed I guess that your bus, while very hard, is not invulnerable. Having such solid support in the PG and Frosty let you fight back for the draw though.

I sometimes feel like I am fighting the terrain vs Wood Elves! They are tricky buggers (I play them myself) and this list had three monsters. Double Flee can be frustrating, though the eagles have to spend the next turn rallying. Ideally you shoot one off first but I appreciate the Waywatchers were public enemy number one here.

Last game sounds rather unlucky. Even losing twelve Helms you should still be testing on a re-rollable Steadfast 10? O&G are difficult until you've learned them, the Impact Hits gave me nightmares in early 8th! Always a pain to lose your last game heavily but you played well at times this tournament. You'll come back stronger!

:)
Galdor
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#11 Post by Galdor »

Glad you enjoyed the reports and thanks for taking the time to comment.

I was hoping to write up more detailed reports with maps etc, in the style of Swordmaster's, for example. I didn't take notes though and my memory just isn't good enough to recall all the details of each turn! Oh well, hopefully next time.. If I take photos every turn that will probably help prompt my memory when I come to writing them up.

I thought it was quite a cool touch allowing the Monstrous Arcanum stuff, but I did think the monster I faced in the High Elf list was crazily powerful - The 2D6 thunder stomp was absolutely brutal. I don't remember how many regular attacks it had, but I'm pretty sure it was quite a few. Even the poor Frosty couldn't wound it because of the re-roll on successfully inflicted wounds (think it was T7). I think you basically need a cannon or two to take it out!

There were a lot of monsters in this tournament in general and lists with lots of them did particularly well. There were very few gunline-type lists so I guess that might have helped.

I'm wondering about that Orcs and Goblins game now and whether I tested on my unmodified leadership for the SH break test, I can't remember how he would have broken steadfast at that point! It's possible that I forgot steadfast #-o Oh well, too late now!

I'm thinking about going to this 2500 pt one-day 8th edition event in Warwick in March:

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 3&t=131722

There are no End Times, just pure 8th :D So I'm very tempted. I wonder what the extra 100 pts would best be spent on in my list. I'm not familiar with the comp system they mention though, so will have to see.
SpellArcher
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Re: 8th edition High Elves in action

#12 Post by SpellArcher »

It certainly sounds as if the monsters mixed things up a bit. Interesting point about the lack of gunlines. I faced very, very little shooting in my last tournament at Reading. Deathstars instead. So I envy you very much the Warwick event, 25% Lords and Heroes looks like bliss! I guess 25 of those 100 points will have to go on Core. I can believe the forgetting Steadfast thing, I do stuff like that all the time!

:)
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