Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

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razorfate
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:26 pm

Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

#1 Post by razorfate »

Here is my battlereport thread for the third batrep against Nurgle Army.
Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos
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Loriel
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Location: Winterfell

Re: Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

#2 Post by Loriel »

I will comment as I read.

Lists
I am pretty upset of WS5 on core (in any army, I personally think WS5 shouldn't never be gained from core points). stubborn elves, with armor piercings ws5. Allthough they are rather expensive, still I would love to have a unit in Helf list... (some one might say use end times -> problem solved ;) ) Overall wood elves deserve this kind of close combat unit.

two shadow dancers, I am intriqued... Especially the opportunity to negate enemy rank bonuses. And the way I read (RAW) even if the shadow dancer dies the whole unit still benefits from the dance. However I think that is not RAI ;)

Nurglings <3 ! Double cannon, luckily you don't have niche targets for them, say treemen/treekin ;)

Deployment

Small error here, monsters cannot garrison buildings =(

turn 1

deamon prince couldn't move more when leaving the building. But that wouldn't matter much as your opponent seemed to have enough room to place the prince behind the building anyway.

turn 2
those nurglings probably had red arrow flag on, I take they didn't charge or if did such a large movement wouldn't be allowed.

did you remember thunderstomps for prince?

turn 3
Those riders!

You cannot shoot in to combat with cannon. The rule can be found on BRB page 112 Choosing Targed third paragraph ;)

turn 4
savage beast of horrors and many characters.

turn 5
Wild riders can kill daemon prince but nurglins... impossibruu.

---

Allthough it seemed that Welf are going to win I wouldn't still called from this. last turn cannon + drone charge on eternal guards might have made a difference. And never underestimate reign of chaos, as chaos can be fickle.

What dances did you use?

I think your opponent biggest mistake was not to strike wild riders with the prince as much as possible and I think you guys forgot his thunderstomps or he rolled the worst ones ever ;) I also agree with Asrai's Mollesvinet that he should have charged with cannons. and attempt for last turn multiple charge with drones + bearers 2 for EG.

on curious side note, how did reign of chaos effect the game? In my experience it always does something god awful for both sides.

For the actual battle reports, I personally like to place the battle chronicler report pictures to the status as they were at the end of turn.

[quote=razorfate (from asrai)]
I indeed cast Amber spear to his DP but it was dispelled, as i did not take a single photo while playing (i generally forget due to exitement, because of this could not write a battle report about my other games) some details were lost while writing the report.
[/quote]

I personally take as much notes as possible from the game. Especially from magic as it also helps alot during the game if we end up in disagreement how many dispel / power dices are left. Also some random videos helps a lot, just take 1 minute video and blabber something to it. ;)
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
razorfate
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

#3 Post by razorfate »

Hi Loriel,
Thank your for your comments, i will try to answer all of them:
I am pretty upset of WS5 on core (in any army, I personally think WS5 shouldn't never be gained from core points). stubborn elves, with armor piercings ws5. Allthough they are rather expensive, still I would love to have a unit in Helf list... (some one might say use end times -> problem solved ;) ) Overall wood elves deserve this kind of close combat unit.
Eternal Guard is clearly not a nobrainer unit in our core slot as i always played avoidance MSU armies so far i wanted to test the close combat deathstar unit consept.
wo shadow dancers, I am intriqued... Especially the opportunity to negate enemy rank bonuses. And the way I read (RAW) even if the shadow dancer dies the whole unit still benefits from the dance. However I think that is not RAI ;)
Shadow dancers were indeed quite effective as they have high Ws and 3++ ward save in the first turn of combat they prevented damage from the plaguebearers. After the savage beast of horos they went for the no rank bonus dance in the second turn of combat.
Nurglings <3 ! Double cannon, luckily you don't have niche targets for them, say treemen/treekin ;)
I like to play with a highweaver on unicorn but not when i know that my opponent will bring two skullcannons:) I also love the attention seeking little love daemons:) They are clearly misunderstood by the rest of the reality.
Deployment
Small error here, monsters cannot garrison buildings =(
I did not know it... There were more errors i found today. Nurglings are scout so they should be deployed as scout move.:(
deamon prince couldn't move more when leaving the building. But that wouldn't matter much as your opponent seemed to have enough room to place the prince behind the building anyway.
You are right about this one too, Clearly we need to learn more about the rules.
turn 2
those nurglings probably had red arrow flag on, I take they didn't charge or if did such a large movement wouldn't be allowed.

did you remember thunderstomps for prince?
They did a failed a charge but went for 5 or 6 inches. The diagram was wrong. They moved to their final place in the later turns probably.
We did not forget the thunderstomps but the DP only rolled 1 for his thunderstomps. Also he hit 3 times with his normal attacks.

turn 3
Those riders!

You cannot shoot in to combat with cannon. The rule can be found on BRB page 112 Choosing Targed third paragraph ;)
Wildriders rock:) Indeed he did not shoot with his cannons that turn, probably an eternal guard died to cannon fire in the previous turn.
We also made a mistake about cannonball not going to the back ranks if it failed to wound the first model. But i do not think that it would create much difference for the result of the match.
turn 4
savage beast of horrors and many characters.
This army built was depending on that one spell. If i had not got it, my army would suffer. Maybe i should bring a beastsinger in 2500 version of the army.
turn 5
Wild riders can kill daemon prince but nurglins... impossibruu.
I had known that two wild riders will not make it out of combat with the nurglings if i had not give them magical support (-1 to hit to nurglings or wyssan to wild riders or both) altough unfortunately the winds of magic blow poorly and i could only cast savage beast.
Allthough it seemed that Welf are going to win I wouldn't still called from this. last turn cannon + drone charge on eternal guards might have made a difference. And never underestimate reign of chaos, as chaos can be fickle.
I am somewhat new to the 8th edition, i was playing with an older edition while i was going to the university (I am 38 now:)) but did not play since... My friend is newer than me so it was a training match for both of us to learn the game. He played with me one or two times with my avoidance armies where he could not catch a single unit if i did not want him to catch so he went for the easy targets whenever he can. After the match we discussed what he should do with his DP and plaguedrones. He handed me the magic phase after his DP died.
What dances did you use?
3++ invul the first turn of combat, dent rank bonus in the next turn.
I think your opponent biggest mistake was not to strike wild riders with the prince as much as possible and I think you guys forgot his thunderstomps or he rolled the worst ones ever ;) I also agree with Asrai's Mollesvinet that he should have charged with cannons. and attempt for last turn multiple charge with drones + bearers 2 for EG.
He did not charge with his cannons,both of us forgetting that they are also formidable chariots.
on curious side note, how did reign of chaos effect the game? In my experience it always does something god awful for both sides.
Surprisingly reign of chaos did not effect the game very much, in one turn he rolled 4 i think and his ward saves dropped to 6++ army wide, i think that was the turn his DP died. On a previous battle he had rolled 6+6 in two turns, summoning daemons at my back. His dice rolls had rocked whole game (which i had won in the end)
For the actual battle reports, I personally like to place the battle chronicler report pictures to the status as they were at the end of turn.
I did not clearly understand this comment, can you explain it a bit further?
I personally take as much notes as possible from the game. Especially from magic as it also helps alot during the game if we end up in disagreement how many dispel / power dices are left. Also some random videos helps a lot, just take 1 minute video and blabber something to it. ;)
Yes, it would be lovely if i did not forget to take a sinlge photo in 50% of my games:) We had even tried to make a video batrep with my friend before but our equipment was not enough for this. Taking notes sadly slows us as we generally have not enough time as we want, and i play very slowly as the wood elves are very fragile and movement, magic and shooting phases are very tough to play correctly. In my opinion one single wrong move and you are done if you are playing with an experienced gamer. But clearly writing more accurate batreps is my priority for my hobby:)

Thanks again for your notes and your time for commenting so much.

Cheers,
Razorfate
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Loriel
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Location: Winterfell

Re: Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

#4 Post by Loriel »

razorfate wrote: Nurglings are scout so they should be deployed as scout move.:(
Scouts... I didn't know that either... They turned really interesting unit in my eyes.
razorfate wrote:
For the actual battle reports, I personally like to place the battle chronicler report pictures to the status as they were at the end of turn.

I did not clearly understand this comment, can you explain it a bit further?
At first I must say this is naturally my own preference and in your case your text has always given the situation to explain why the next picture is vastly different.

You seem to place some units in to the position where they are at the time when they charged. For example DoC turn 3, If this would have being my report Drones would have ended up out in to the edge. In other words the position where they are at the end of turn. I do understand sometimes it can lead up to really odd situations especially if some units managed to overrun etc.

I use sometimes extra arrows to enhance the pictures. For example from my latest report http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE088/BR.html warriors of chaos third turn where Chaos Ogres charged and pretty much ended up in same place from breaking as they were at the start of turn.

Some other players tend to take picture export from between phases especially if there has being some really odd random situation. The way you export pictures you be use that trick as well.
Razorfate wrote: He did not charge with his cannons,both of us forgetting that they are also formidable chariots.
Yep Skull Cannon without the cannon might even be playable with the point cost... ... probably... With the cannon they are probably the most under priced model in the game. Still I think Tomb Kings Casket of Souls is the best single model in the game, but that is just me ;)
Razorfate wrote: We had even tried to make a video batrep with my friend before but our equipment was not enough for this.
I actually just posted my very first video battle report ever from warhammer. Really amateur work, but hey... this is hobby that I (and hopefully most of us) like to do for fun. perhaps next report will be better. It is in Finnish, but I added English subtitles to it if you are interested to see ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfKP6hm41Y . I used my Samsung S4 mini, windows movie maker and youtubes
Razorfate wrote: Taking notes sadly slows us as we generally have not enough time as we want, and i play very slowly as the wood elves are very fragile and movement, magic and shooting phases are very tough to play correctly
I can give you couple very simple tricks/tips how to improve this particular "problem."
1) Do some / all notes during opponent turn when he is doing the thinking.
2) No one else needs to understand what you wrote down.
3) Use acronyms, shorten version. I have recently started to record bigger close combat result so I do them like this WL 23 / 12 / 5 / 3 -> which means Whitelions, 23 attack, 12 hits, 5 wounds, 3 past saves.
4) By just taking the notes you simply get faster with it. Simple ;)
Razorfate wrote: But clearly writing more accurate batreps is my priority for my hobby:)
I think writing reports (and getting some hints from fellow players) is the best way to learn the game. First of all you might see errors. For example I realized right away when I started doing my 88th report that I marched in to river, which is illegal. shame on me. Luckily it didn't effect the game much as I could have easily moved infront of that big warrior block anyway.

Secondly it gives you really good reflection point that ok, here if I would have done this perhaps the game would ended up differently. This is the reason why I wish to have really detailed reports. Especially on the matters that are players choices like magic. Really important part of the game but for somehow players don't write much about magic phases to their reports. It is vastly different to say "magic had no effect on the game" or write down really high magic phase and I used 1 PD spell at start and broke my concentration, or I dispelled this spell and not this etc. I used my scroll here.
Razorfate wrote: Thanks again for your notes and your time for commenting so much.
Thanks, this is actually something that I feel is missing in Ulthuan forum. Some other forums where I am active user people tend to comment more other players reports and try to give them advice or just casual cheers for the work done. When I realized that Ulthuan didn't have similar base I though that well hell, it has to start somewhere ;)
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
razorfate
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Wood Elves vs Daemons of Chaos

#5 Post by razorfate »

Hello Loriel,
At first I must say this is naturally my own preference and in your case your text has always given the situation to explain why the next picture is vastly different.

You seem to place some units in to the position where they are at the time when they charged. For example DoC turn 3, If this would have being my report Drones would have ended up out in to the edge. In other words the position where they are at the end of turn. I do understand sometimes it can lead up to really odd situations especially if some units managed to overrun etc.

I use sometimes extra arrows to enhance the pictures. For example from my latest report http://loriel.kapsi.fi/WHFB_BR/HE088/BR.html warriors of chaos third turn where Chaos Ogres charged and pretty much ended up in same place from breaking as they were at the start of turn.

Some other players tend to take picture export from between phases especially if there has being some really odd random situation. The way you export pictures you be use that trick as well.
Understood your comment, will try to do like that in my next report, extra arrows will help me as in your case. Extra pictures would be interesting too. It did not occur to me before.
I actually just posted my very first video battle report ever from warhammer. Really amateur work, but hey... this is hobby that I (and hopefully most of us) like to do for fun. perhaps next report will be better. It is in Finnish, but I added English subtitles to it if you are interested to see ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfKP6hm41Y . I used my Samsung S4 mini, windows movie maker and youtubes
Watched your report, really liked your way of showing both the battle chronicler diagram on top of the video. The video was shaky, but i believe i will watch more quality reports from you in the future as i subscribed to your channel already.:) I myself like the miniwar gaming style videos, where i can watch the dice rolling and the exitement. We tried to do that kind of video, but nonethless will try again in the near future:)
I can give you couple very simple tricks/tips how to improve this particular "problem."
1) Do some / all notes during opponent turn when he is doing the thinking.
2) No one else needs to understand what you wrote down.
3) Use acronyms, shorten version. I have recently started to record bigger close combat result so I do them like this WL 23 / 12 / 5 / 3 -> which means Whitelions, 23 attack, 12 hits, 5 wounds, 3 past saves.
4) By just taking the notes you simply get faster with it. Simple ;)
Thanks for the tips:) I will definetly try to do this method too. It is really frustrating for me if i did not remember anything in the game correctly while making the batrep. I think with more experience, i will do less thinking and more noting.
I think writing reports (and getting some hints from fellow players) is the best way to learn the game. First of all you might see errors. For example I realized right away when I started doing my 88th report that I marched in to river, which is illegal. shame on me. Luckily it didn't effect the game much as I could have easily moved infront of that big warrior block anyway.

Secondly it gives you really good reflection point that ok, here if I would have done this perhaps the game would ended up differently. This is the reason why I wish to have really detailed reports. Especially on the matters that are players choices like magic. Really important part of the game but for somehow players don't write much about magic phases to their reports. It is vastly different to say "magic had no effect on the game" or write down really high magic phase and I used 1 PD spell at start and broke my concentration, or I dispelled this spell and not this etc. I used my scroll here.

Thanks, this is actually something that I feel is missing in Ulthuan forum. Some other forums where I am active user people tend to comment more other players reports and try to give them advice or just casual cheers for the work done. When I realized that Ulthuan didn't have similar base I though that well hell, it has to start somewhere ;)
Yes, i agree with you completely. I do not write the batreps to show how i win the games but tell the tale of my army be it on the losing or the winnig side (preferably winning side). Any comment makes me happy, because i know then that someone did read my tale and when someone comments like you do (and very few people does this unfortunately) makes me want to play more games. I also try to read your and Swordmaster's batrep in this forum whenever i can and will comment much more from now on (with my limited knowledge of course)

Cheers
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