Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

This forum is for the posting of reports of your famous victories and crushing defeats. It is for both single battle reports and for ongoing army diaries/blogs.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Lady Phoenix
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:23 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#1 Post by Lady Phoenix »

So, today I had my first battle and I have to say, what a learning experience it was. You can sit and digest every word in the rule book but its not until you actually play that you begin to learn something.

So, partly for ease and partly because I had models I fielded the following

Archmage - Lev 3 - Book Of Hoeth (Hidden in a unit of Sea Guard) - Lore Of Life
Noble On Griffon - BSB - Swooping Strike - Khains Ring Of Fury
5 x Ellrian Reavers - Full Command
11 Sea Guard Full Command
12 Sea Guard Full Command

He fielded (from memory)

2 Mages, 1 lev 1, 1 lev 2 - Unsure Of Lore. He said he was going to go for lore of life but ebded up casting some nasty firey spells on me
6 Demigryff Knights
A load of pistol guys
A load spearmen guys
Cannon

So, Turn 1
He won the roll and won to go first. A few movements but nothing special. He fired at me with his cannon, I lost 3 sea guard which were ressurected in my magic phase. He lost 3 pistol guys in my shooting round.
Im feeling good as technically Im winning after 1 turn

Turn 2 it kinda started to go wrong. He shot at my Reavers with his cannon and wiped them all out. His shooting saw me lost about 5 sea guard and he caught on about the regrowth so dispelled when I tried to cast it. Things have now swung in his favour
My hero on Griffon leapt over his knighty things and I was trying to save two dice so that I could use Khaines ring. I tried to cast regrowth on my archmages unit of sea guard, rolled two 6`s and after rolling a 4 on the miscast table it blew most of my unit away leaving the archmage and 2 sea guard.

Turn 3 - Thinsg got nasty. He shot at my hero with his cannon, hit, 3 wounds lost. Monster reaction, Griffon decided to sit with dead hero. Pistol guys wiped out my archmage and 2 sea guard and that left 1 unit of sea guard.
As I only had one unit left and we hadnt one any hand to hand combat, by agreement from both of us, my sea guard magically flew into hand to hand combat with his spearmen.

Round 1 - He lost 3, He lost 3. I lost combat due to his additional rank, leadership easily passed
Round 2 - He lost 0 I lost 3 - Leadership test passed
Round 3 - He lost 0 I lost 3 - Leadership passed, break test passed.
Round 4 - He lost 0, he then destroyed my last 2 sea guard

Conclusion

- Dont get excited just because you have taken 27 enemy points off the tabel in round 1
- Noble on Griffon needs to get into combat
- Sea Guards as archers are useless
- Sea Guard as fighters arent much better
- In fact core troops arent that good. Need special and rare troops to support them
- I started the game with the intention of having units backing each other up, but ended up sending them all over the place and they were left alone.
- Bolt Throwers? He made a mess of my army with one cannon, so Im guessing that 2 bolt throwers could mess him up bigger time
- 1,000 points isnt actually that much of an army

Ultimate conclusion

Fun was had by both sides today, hand shakes all round and a new friend was made

Final Score - Outstanding success and mission accomplished.

Sorry for the unorthadox battle report :)
Penny
aka Nápoldë Melwasúl

http://www.ladyphoenix.co.uk

Gliitering Host of Nápoldë Melwasúl
Under Construction
Galdor
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:32 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#2 Post by Galdor »

Hi Penny,

Thanks for the report and I'm glad you enjoyed your first battle. It's take quite a few to get to grips with all the rules; I've been playing for years and I still forget important things!

As you saw, cannons are very good in 8th edition and a real pain if you field large monsters and so on that can be taken out in one shot. To get to cannons and other warmachines quickly, reavers and eagles can be great. Also sometimes just shooting at one with enough archers and bolts can take it out. If there are any obstacles such as walls you can place your vulnerable monster/hero behind them. The cannon ball will hit the obstable destroying it but won't go any further! This could help keep one alive until combat.

Yes our bolt throwers are very good, especially for taking out enemy chaff which helps us to control the board. I always take at least 3 at 2400 pts.
User avatar
Caledfwlch
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:38 pm
Location: At the lady of the lake

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#3 Post by Caledfwlch »

Hey Penny,

Thanks for the report, and especially for your post-battle reflections. 1000 pts isn't all that much indeed, but for me the fun with those small scale battles is that there is more room for tactical maneuvering (if only because the table isn't loaded with tons of units).

I am curious to hear how you deployed your army? Did you go for one battle line and a wide deploying of the sea guard units?

Also, did you have an idea on what units you wanted to take out first? I quite like your brave moving forward of the griffonhero. Were you directing him towards the canon, or the pistoleers? In any case, that must have put some pressure on him - which is a good thing to do! I myself tend to be too cautious/defensive most of the time, and as such am not very good at dominating the table.

I'm not a big fan of Seaguards myself, so maybe you could try 2x5 Reavers and one block of spearelves next time? Spears + Griffon hero can work together to combat his block of spears/knights, while reavers redirect other threats (to give you time to win the first combat) and/or eat up his artillery. The big advantage here is that as soon your big spears and griffon are in combat he has little to shoot at, for he cannot fire into engaged units.

I agree with you on buying special units. From my experience, a small unit of 10 WLs or even SMs can be very effective in these 1000pts battles.

Keep it up, and let us know how other battles go!
User avatar
Loriel
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:27 am
Location: Winterfell

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#4 Post by Loriel »

Lady Phoenix wrote:So, today I had my first battle and I have to say, what a learning experience it was. You can sit and digest every word in the rule book but its not until you actually play that you begin to learn something.
Great to see your first battle. I will comment as I read
Lady Phoenix wrote:Archmage - Lev 3 - Book Of Hoeth (Hidden in a unit of Sea Guard) - Lore Of Life
I take you are playing with vanilla 25% lord allowance to fit him in 250 point bracket? If not then level 4 is investment that should always be taken ;)
Lady Phoenix wrote:Noble On Griffon - BSB - Swooping Strike - Khains Ring Of Fury
Ok, this dude surely is interesting. You are really brave of placing him as he would die against pretty much flimsiest shooting attacks, or did you forgot to mention any mundane items bought on him? I have personally think that BSB isn't worth it below 1600 point game due the increased investment and minor effect on the game, but more so that it grants 100 extra VP and that is awful lot in so little games.
Lady Phoenix wrote:5 x Ellrian Reavers - Full Command
I think full command in this unit is pretty wasted. I wouldn't personally add anything to them, but some people field banner for the sake of fortiduty (in blood and glory scenario) and some people musicians for retreating
Lady Phoenix wrote:11 Sea Guard Full Command
12 Sea Guard Full Command
I think you should unite the unit together or swap them to regular archers. Additional armor isn't that much and the spear isn't giving them any extra in low count.

Overall from your list
I personally think you are overspending on characters. I try to maintain about 33% character at max.
Lady Phoenix wrote:2 Mages, 1 lev 1, 1 lev 2 - Unsure Of Lore. He said he was going to go for lore of life but ebded up casting some nasty firey spells on me
sounds light magic to me. Or lore of fire.
Lady Phoenix wrote:6 Demigryff Knights
PADAM! When I got this this point in reading, I would say unless you manage to dweller them you are toasted big time.
Lady Phoenix wrote:A load of pistol guys + cannon
Noble dead

----------
Lady Phoenix wrote:So, Turn 1
He won the roll and won to go first. A few movements but nothing special. He fired at me with his cannon, I lost 3 sea guard which were ressurected in my magic phase. He lost 3 pistol guys in my shooting round.
Im feeling good as technically Im winning after 1 turn
Oh He shot seaguards with cannon. Did you manage to hide the noble rider behind some building? That was really good thing for you, lets say that he would aimed the noble he would hit both rider and mount doing str 10 multiple wound 1d6. And with cannons being rather accurate thingies.
Lady Phoenix wrote:Turn 2 it kinda started to go wrong. He shot at my Reavers with his cannon and wiped them all out.
Did he use grapeshot mode or how did you have your reavers were positioned, best way to counter it would leave the reavers 13 inch away and trust that you can swiftride charge roll of 4 ;) . In other words was your flank open to them in 1 deep formation or did you have congaline? Reason why I ask is that this sounds odd to me that cannon ball could wipe reaver unit. (unless they were allready weakened) Again thankfully he didn't shoot griffon :)
Lady Phoenix wrote: His shooting saw me lost about 5 sea guard and he caught on about the regrowth so dispelled when I tried to cast it. Things have now swung in his favour
My hero on Griffon leapt over his knighty things and I was trying to save two dice so that I could use Khaines ring. I tried to cast regrowth on my archmages unit of sea guard, rolled two 6`s and after rolling a 4 on the miscast table it blew most of my unit away leaving the archmage and 2 sea guard.
aww... Well magic is fickle. How many dices you used to cast regrowth? Did you have access to throne of vines spell?
Lady Phoenix wrote:Turn 3 - Thinsg got nasty. He shot at my hero with his cannon, hit, 3 wounds lost. Monster reaction, Griffon decided to sit with dead hero. Pistol guys wiped out my archmage and 2 sea guard and that left 1 unit of sea guard.
As I only had one unit left and we hadnt one any hand to hand combat, by agreement from both of us, my sea guard magically flew into hand to hand combat with his spearmen.
that monster reaction? did the griphon survive the cannon ball shot, as he was 2+ wound and 4+ to die in multiwound. I have to say that we played the first couple 20 games wrong so that when rider dies the monster ALWAYS take the test, but it is truly a leadership test. ;)
Lady Phoenix wrote: - Dont get excited just because you have taken 27 enemy points off the tabel in round 1
Heh, well small victories should be celebrated
Lady Phoenix wrote: - Noble on Griffon needs to get into combat
The one and only way
Lady Phoenix wrote: - Sea Guards as archers are useless
- Sea Guard as fighters arent much better
- In fact core troops arent that good. Need special and rare troops to support them
Sea Guards are not that good.

Our reavers are probably second best core unit in the game (I personally think dark riders are slightly better)
Silver Helms are ok, but I think many times people that plays them just simple expect too much.

15 unit of archers can work really well as chaff clearers. 30 strong spearmen block can tackle pretty much numerous core unit (skavens / goblins )

Overall I think High Elves have rather ok core, but special and rare troops are needed.
Lady Phoenix wrote: - I started the game with the intention of having units backing each other up, but ended up sending them all over the place and they were left alone.
Not bad intention
Lady Phoenix wrote: - Bolt Throwers? He made a mess of my army with one cannon, so Im guessing that 2 bolt throwers could mess him up bigger time
Well Bolt Throwers can do well, but they cannot tackle same threats that cannon can. It would have being little help against those demigryphs in this particular match. And with the 6 shot they can clear enemy chaffs and even tender enemy infantry. But main target will always be armored ones.
Lady Phoenix wrote: - 1,000 points isnt actually that much of an army
No it isn't ;) I prefer 2400 point game.

-----

I hope you will take couple pictures also and better yet make even battle chronicler report on your next matches. I can promise you that at least I will comment on them and try to give you my best advice how to proceed and what to do differently.
High Elves since Aug 2010: Tot /W / L / D - 100 / 75 / 23 / 2
Tomb Kings since Sep 2013:Tot / W / L / D - 31 / 18 / 12 / 1

Chronicles of Loriel's Glory and Shame
User avatar
Lady Phoenix
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:23 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#5 Post by Lady Phoenix »

My deployment was essentiall a big long line, however, my hero on Griffon started off behind the Mage/Sea Guard unit. He then hopped behind some trees, and then went for the cannon.

One of my errors was changing my battle plan. While they say that a good General can adapt, completely going off course is a bad thing.

I saw his knights as the biggest threat, mainly on account that my opponent had told me that those alone counted for about 1/3 of his total points. 350ish points divided by 6 = sounding deadly to me. When I shot at them with my sea guard and nothing happened I figured Ill change plans and since his cannon was doing most damage I went for that. The cannon wasnt that deadly as the initial damage caused was ressurected in my magic phase, but he obvioulsy saw that as a strength for me and made sure he went for the dispel.

Another error was that I was going to charge his knights with my reavers and accidently lined my reavers up in a nice little line for his cannon, so he shot into the side of the unit and they all came tumbling down, one by one. The theory was that, based on a discussion on another thread, Dragon Princes are deadly when they charge, but seem quite ordinary when charged, and I was hoping that his knights were in a similar position.

Perhaps another mistake was not actually getting my sea guard into combat. Apart from the "magic movement for trainign purposes" none of my troops saw any hand to hand combat. I played slightly defensively and I remember someone saying that they are not defensive troops. So, perhaps another error there?

Im hoping to get another 1,000 point game with someone in two weeks time and I have a 2,400 point game in two weeks after that (Thank you to Aftermath gaming club) so next time Im going to try out some other troops. Money is tight so buying anything that I dont already own is going to be tough, but hopefully the 2,400 point game will feature some Dragon Princes and Im desperate to get some bolt throwers to try out.

However, the game did raise a few questions.

When shooting with a character that has two attacks, he does get two shots, doesnt he. My opponent said he only gets one and in the spirit of the game I accepted his ruling, but I cant find anything in the rule book that confirms or deny that.

When shooting at a mounted Elf are any hits always taken on the rider first? When his cannon shot my Hero on Griffon how do we decide if the Character or Griffon suffered hits?

His cannon confused me. Sometimes it inflicted 1 wound on each Elf it his but when he shot my Hero the wounds were detirmined by the roll of a die. Whats going on there?

Lastly (I promise). Lets say for example, I have 4 sea Guard and an archmage in a unit. He fires a volley of, lets say, 15 arrows on that unit and lets say 10 hit. How do you decide how many hit the unit and how many hit the archmage?
Penny
aka Nápoldë Melwasúl

http://www.ladyphoenix.co.uk

Gliitering Host of Nápoldë Melwasúl
Under Construction
User avatar
Razzy Mac
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:27 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#6 Post by Razzy Mac »

You can take SIX demigryphs at 1,000 points and still have enough points to actually field an army? Wow... At 1,000 points we really don't have much to deal with that....
RM's High Elf Plog
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
User avatar
Lady Phoenix
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:23 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#7 Post by Lady Phoenix »

Razzy Mac wrote:You can take SIX demigryphs at 1,000 points and still have enough points to actually field an army? Wow... At 1,000 points we really don't have much to deal with that....
Yup, with no command its 348 points which is 35% of your army list.

In all fairness, his unit never saw combat as I was too busy running away from it :)
Penny
aka Nápoldë Melwasúl

http://www.ladyphoenix.co.uk

Gliitering Host of Nápoldë Melwasúl
Under Construction
User avatar
Razzy Mac
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:27 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#8 Post by Razzy Mac »

Man, they really need to give us some monstrous cav in our next book! White lion riders , anyone? :lol:
RM's High Elf Plog
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
theviking
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:42 am

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#9 Post by theviking »

Ranged weapons only get one shot unless otherwise specified, ala reaver bow. See page 40.

Cannons are strength 10 and multiple wounds (d6). So after any saves are attempted roll a dice for each wound and that's how many wounds it actually causes. Seaguard only have one wound each so there's no need to roll for the multiple wounds.

Bolt throwers have multiple wounds d3 with no armor saves if you do the single shot so that could be a way to handle the demis. You'll need lots of bolt throwers if he's got six demis though.

Read up on the character section about shooting on page 99. In short if there's more than five rank and file models they take all the hits, otherwise you allocate as evenly as possible. In your example you have five total models and would allocate 2 hits to each model. If there were 11 hits you would allocate two each and then choose if the last one goes on the unit or the character.

Seaguard aren't that bad per se, it's just that 10 of any kind of T3 low armor troops are pitiful. Maybe try combining your two little units into a larger firebase that might actually be able to fight something. 7 wide and 3 deep would make a good sized unit for them.

I think at 1000 points a griffon is too much points in one model. Just use it as a eagle noble and you'll have an extra 100 points for more troops. Also give the loremaster a try, he's a real toolbox of great options especially at 1000 points where only being a level 2 isn't as great of a disadvantage. Maybe try a loremaster, eagle noble, your seaguard, the reavers, and either five dragon princes or two bolt throwers. That should make a decent 1000 point list if you don't use the full magic item allowance and maybe drop a few command models.
User avatar
Lady Phoenix
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:23 pm
Location: Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#10 Post by Lady Phoenix »

@theviking - Many thanks for that advice. I took a simple army as my aim was simply to play the game and see what is what. It was then my intention to alter the army list for future games.

Im now thinking that for my next game I may combine the sea guard to make one big 20 man unit, chuck in a loremaster. Reduce the griffon to an eagle, replace the mage with a loremaster, add a bolt thrower and that will leave me with about 51 points, which I may use on an eagle, or I may lose the book of hoeth and get another bolt thrower.
Penny
aka Nápoldë Melwasúl

http://www.ladyphoenix.co.uk

Gliitering Host of Nápoldë Melwasúl
Under Construction
qwe50
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#11 Post by qwe50 »

I think in such a small game you should - try some of the units from you proposed 2400p list so you learn what they can do (and what they can't :-) I know you have a limited collection so learn to play with the models you got.

For you next game start with you 20 Archers - they are good against low armour save units (pistolers are a nice target) chose Archers over seaguards because of the longer range of the long bow. A misician is needed so you can do swift reform.

20 x Archers @ 210p
musician

Next you Ellyrian reavers - they are there to stall, or angel you opponent most dangerous units and take light opponents like a cannon

5 x Ellyrian reavers @ 85p
bow / no spear.

Last core will be you 8 silver helms - unlike you other units they have a good 2+ armour same and they have a good charge with there laces but next turn they fight with strengh 3.

8 x Silver helms @ 204p
shields. Standard and musician.

That is 499p core. So you have Archers to shoot low armour targets, reavers to stall opponents or go cannon hunting and silver helms who can take the spearmen, pistolers and the cannon in close combat with it's strong charge.


However none of you core units have any chance against the Demigryff Knights or other heavy armoured units so what to do ?

A good solution would be a big unit of White lions with there high strengh they can punch through the 1+ armour save and there high I have them strike before the Demigryff reducing there number before they get to strike back - however you don't have the models so we will have to turn to magic.

Now you core units can deal with you opponents light armour units (spearmen, pistolers and the cannon if you can get to that) so that allow you to take a more specialized mage to deal with the Demigryff Knights, and the best lore for that is Metal.

You spells will be searing doom and gehenns's golden hounds, but also plague of rust can be used to lower there armour save.
I have also taken a dispel magic scroll - it auto dispel a spell - newer ever live home without it.

Archmage (Metal) @ 255p
4th level. Dispel magic scroll, Golden Crown of atrazar.

246 points left. What to take next ?

To add to the combat power of you silver helm unit i will buy a BSB
I have made a defencive build with a 2+ armour save you can re-roll also a charmed shield, who if it is the first hit can catch a cannon ball (but stay in the silverhelm unit to get look out sire unless you get an oppotunity to charge the cannon).

Noble BSB @ 170p
bsb, Sword of might, dawnstone, charmed shield.
Dragon armour, barded elven steed.

76p left

Those poins are free you have something against his low armour units, you have the mage against his heavy armour units so you can take whatever wan't to give you more options against what you find most dangerous.

it could be a bolt trower who can help against heavy armour and high toughness targets.
it could be a great eagle who can get to the cannon fast but also stall or angle you opponents units.
it could be a unit sisters who shoot with s4 and have flaming attacks.
it could be a tiranoc chariot who have a long charge and impact hits.

Easy choise you have sisters (but a bolt trower would be better i think) so it will be

5 x Sisters of avelorn @ 70p


sum up

Archmage (Metal) @ 255p
4th level. Dispel magic scroll, Golden Crown of atrazar.

Noble BSB @ 170p
bsb, Sword of might, dawnstone, charmed shield.
Dragon armour, barded elven steed.


20 x Archers @ 210p
musician

5 x Ellyrian reavers @ 85p
bow / no spear.

8 x Silver helms @ 204p
shields. Standard and musician.

5 x Sisters of avelorn @ 70p

994p
Love making army lists
Don't believe MSU
Lord Anathir
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Univeristy of Glasgow

Re: Pennys First Battle - 1k Vs Empire

#12 Post by Lord Anathir »

- Bolt Throwers? He made a mess of my army with one cannon, so Im guessing that 2 bolt throwers could mess him up bigger time

May as well just go to 4 and get it over with :D
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.

And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"
Post Reply