Mals Blog- US Masters

[Gildor777]

Malossar,

If you get game reports/reactions to this list I would be really interested in seeing them. I am currently toying with something very similar, however dropping the prince for mounting the non-BSB noble on a Griffon and putting some SHs in Core. Either that or dropping the prince for another unit of Elite (likely WLs). Interested if you think the Prince is needed, or if the dual nobles can deal with threats as effectively. Do you feel ok running only 1 main fighting unit? Your battle-field thoughts are appreciated!

[Malossar]

Well i left my ipad at home last night but here's the first list i faced, sorry no pictures:

Arch Lector w. Stuff
BsB w. Stuff
Lvl 4 Life w. Scroll
Captain on Pegasus
Witch Hunter

50x Halberds w. 25x Halb Detachment
10x Archers w. 2x5 Detachments
4x Demigryphs
2x Great Cannons
Hell Blasters
2x Steam Tanks

All characters minus Lvl 4 crammed into the Halberd Horde. He rolled a hill and proceeded to castle Turn 1 he kills Noble, Prince, and a Frost Phoenix as we rolled low on terrain and I was only able to hide the BsB. And that pretty much sums up the game. His artillery rolled me and his magic dwellered my loremaster and phoenix guard turn 1 as well. Sure was fun.

It is a game like that where you really contemplate moving your characters to horse back and into some silver helms. I might move the BsB and Prince back to horses and the second Noble back to a griffon...

[Stormie]

And to think people say that by comping Dwellers you encourage death-stars...

[Lord Anathir]

... when you see emp lists like that, really puts into perspective the disastrously low power level of our new book.

[MartinElf]

... when you see emp lists like that, really puts into perspective the disastrously low power level of our new book.

but we see how vastly more fun are book is to play with and against:)

[Malossar]

New List Concept, a combination of several lists i've used over the course of this last month.

Prince - 276
-Heavy Armor, B. Steed, Shield
-Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Dragon Helm, Pot of Fools

Lore Master of Hoeth - 330
-Book of Hoeth, Sword of Might, Shield of the Merwyrm, Golden Crown

Noble - 170
-Battle Standard, Dragon Armor, B. Steed
-Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Iron Curse Icon

Noble - 327
-Dragon Armor, Charmed Shield, Halberd
-Griffon (Swiftsense, Swooping Strike), Star Lance, The Other Tricksters Shard

5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears - 95
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears - 95
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears - 95
5x Reavers w. Spears - 80
10x Silver Helms w. Full Command - 260

20x Phoenix Guard w. Full Command, Razor Standard - 375

Frost Phoenix
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

2483.

Now gives me two solid combat blocks. A great caster to use dice. Two supporting monsters, 4 redirectors and two chaff clearing bolt throwers...

Thoughts?

[Atlantic]

The list looks pretty solid.

I have a couple of thoughts.

1. I would swap the Loremaster for an Archmage of Life or Shadow. I think you will get more bang for your buck with your phoenix guard. Your magic defense will also be better.

2. I think two phoenixes will serve you better than the griffon / phoenix combo.


I don't think you should give up on the other list yet. It sounds like you got nailed by a very hard counter who just got everything right. Maybe play a few more before you make any changes.

Good luck!

[Malossar]

A few more list edits. I'm trying to get this finalized for a tournament toward the end of June. I think this list is getting close to optimized.


Prince – 276
-Heavy Armor, B. Steed, Shield
-Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Pot of Fools

Loremaster – 330
-Book of Hoeth, Sword of Might, Golden Crown, Shield of the Merwrym

Noble (BSB) – 170
-Dragon Armor, B. Steed, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Iron Curse Icon

5x Reavers w. Bow and Spear – 95
5x Reavers w. Bow and Spear - 95
5x Reavers w. Bow and Spear - 95
5x Reavers w. Spear – 85
10x Silver Helms w. FC – 260


19x Phoenix Guard w. FC, Razor Standard – 360
8x Dragon Princes w. Standard, Musician, BoTWD - 302
2x Bolt Throwers
Frost Phoenix
Great Eagle

2493

Two Cav blocks one to protect the characters while the phoenix guard and loremaster do what they do. 5 redirectors, and a support monster.

[Elithmar]

The characters are going with the dragon princes, aren't they? Not much point in the iron curse icon then, as they already have a 6+ ward. Were you having trouble using up all the points, Mal? You could just give the last reavers bows or something.

[Malossar]

Haha I had totally forgot that i had slapped an iron curse icon on the BsB. That's a throwback from when I wasn't including the Dragon Princes...


Now I have 12 points left over. Find 3 and that's another phoenix guard...

[Malossar]

A few more edits!

Prince - 276
-Heavy Armor, Shield, B. Steed, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, The Other Tricksters Shard

Loremaster - 330
-Book of Hoeth, Sword of Might, Shield of the Merwyrm, Golden Crown

Noble - 170
-Battle Standard, B. Steed, Dragon Armor, Ogre Blade, Enchated shield, Luckstone

5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
5x Reavers w. Spears
10 Silver Helms w. FC - 260

19x Phoenix Guard w. FC, Razor Standard - 360
8x Dragon Princes w. Standard, Musician, Banner of the World Dragon - 302

Frost Phoenix
Great Eagle
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

2493. Any suggestions on last seven points?

[Iluvatar]

Hi Malossar!
Interesting list. As for the last 7 points, I'd suggest Potion of Foolhardiness on your Loremaster. Probably won't do much, but if your phoenix guard hosts him and is charged by a Terror causer, they might flee because of him, especially if your Prince/BSB are away. The potion lets you avoid that for a turn...

[Malossar]

Hi Malossar!
Interesting list. As for the last 7 points, I'd suggest Potion of Foolhardiness on your Loremaster. Probably won't do much, but if your phoenix guard hosts him and is charged by a Terror causer, they might flee because of him, especially if your Prince/BSB are away. The potion lets you avoid that for a turn...

Thanks for the comment but my loremaster is actually capped on his magic item allotment.

[vespacian1]

Thanks for the blog mal, very informative. I'm working on something relatively similar for my army.
The most recent list looks good, my only question is how you've found the cavalry characters survivability without a decent ward save. I imagine you come up against st 6 relatively often with them, is the 4+ rerollable sufficient?

[wamphyri101]

Upgrade lords armour to dragon armour? Help vs metal snipes.

Id swap the last reaver unit for some archers to defend the boltthrowers from scouts or ambushers

[Malossar]

So I could drop the Reavers, one silverhelm and those last seven points and get:

10 archers with a musician or standard.

[wamphyri101]

Musician would be fine unless you play lots of blood and glory.

[Malossar]

We tend to play Blood and Glory quite a bit. However we follow most tournament outlines with if you break your opponent its a bonus 500 VPs and the game continues as normal. If the broken army later manages to break their opponent they receive +100 vps.


Makes for some really awesome game.

[Malossar]

Lack of internet has seen me with a lack of updates. Here's my updated list for a tournament this weekend!

Prince - 276
-Heavy Armor, Shield, B. Steed, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, The Other Tricksters Shard

Loremaster - 330
-Book of Hoeth, Sword of Might, Shield of the Merwyrm, Golden Crown

Noble - 170
-Battle Standard, B. Steed, Dragon Armor, Ogre Blade, Enchated shield, Luckstone

5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
5x Reavers w. Bows and Spears
10 Silver Helms w. FC - 260
10x Archers w. Standard (Or Champion) - 110

19x Phoenix Guard w. FC, Razor Standard - 360
8x Dragon Princes w. Standard, Musician, Banner of the World Dragon - 302

Frost Phoenix
Great Eagle
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

Thoughts?

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

No ward at all on the Prince? I'd at least be giving him Dragon Armour, other than that I like it.

[Malossar]

No ward at all on the Prince? I'd at least be giving him Dragon Armour, other than that I like it.

That's what the banner of the world dragon is for!

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Oh ha, I keep forgetting about that item ^_^'

[Malossar]

Time to dust off ye olde blog with a bit of a list update.

I'm running a tournament next weekend but its a player run tournament because we frankly need players to round out the event. So I get to play (don't worry I won't be accepting prize support!) and I thought bringing a list that was fun would be a great idea to play some models in combinations I don't normally get to.

The idea: Double Dragon, Double Frost Phoenix and max out shooting. We play True LOS which does suck but its how our meta works so no hiding dragons behind hills unfortunately.

how will it work? What will it accomplish? I know one empire player is bringing 3 great cannons and 2 steam tanks at least! I think he's even worked in 1 hell blaster! Ogres are a threat with 2 cannons and losing my thunderstomping goodness...


Without further ado:

Prince – 620
-Star Dragon, Dragon Armor, Ogre Blade, Golden Crown
-Enchanted Shield, Other Tricksters Shard

Dragon Mage – 420
-Level 2, Dragon Armor, Dispel Scroll

Noble – 203
-Battle Standard, Eagle, Heavy Armor, Lion Cloak
-Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Charmed Shield

12x Archers – 120
12x Archers – 120
12x Archers - 120
13x Archers w. standard – 140
5x Silver Helms w. Shield, Champ, Musician - 135

Frost Phoenix
Frost Phoenix
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

2498.


Thoughts?

[Elithmar]

Looks good, although the dragon mage is quite vulnerable and I'm not sure what the purpose of the silver helms is. Maybe swap them and some archers for a few units of reavers?

[Malossar]

Sure the dragon mage is vulnerable. But if they're shooting my dragon mage they're not shooting the frost phoenixes or the star dragon or my bsb.

The Silver helms are there to accept challenges for the prince and to help meet minimum core. I only have 50 archers haha.

[Malossar]

I am still postulating on which list to take to the tournament this weekend. All I know is that it will have a star dragon!

This list is depending less on the monsters and more on shooting. I though for a long while on what lores to take but decided it was best to put both in shadow to increase my chances for withering. If I can get withering off on the iron gut horde... Beware!

Prince - 620
- Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade, The Other Tricksters Shard
- Golden Crown, Star Dragon

Mage - 145
- Level 2, Heavens, Dispel Scroll

Mage - 120
- level 2, Heavens

Noble, 152
- Dragon Armor, Reaver Bow, Battle Standard, Potion of Strength, Shield

11x Archers w. Musc - 120
11x Archers w. Musc - 120
10x Archers w. Musc - 110
12x Archers w. Banner, Musc - 140
5x Silver Helms w. Banner, Champ and Shields - 135


21x White Lions - 318
- Full Command, Banner of Swiftness

Frost Phoenix
5x Sisters
5x Sisters
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

2500

[John Rainbow]

I'd be tempted to drop the one unit of sisters and put the noble back on his eagle. I liked that option a bit more and I think it gives you a but more in terms of ability to focus power in an area. 5 bowshots more aren't all that impressive when you already have the ability to strip regen with the other unit.

[Malossar]

I'd be tempted to drop the one unit of sisters and put the noble back on his eagle. I liked that option a bit more and I think it gives you a but more in terms of ability to focus power in an area. 5 bowshots more aren't all that impressive when you already have the ability to strip regen with the other unit.

He's definitely safer in a block of archers. And you're right, keeping him on an eagle does increase his utility quite a bit. He is a more durable character on an eagle as well. Dammit John right when I think it's perfect....


I'm switching the Lore on the Mages to Heavens. Lower casting values makes it easier to cast and in Shadow I really only had one scary spell. Stop Withering and there's not much else that's a substantial threat. With heavens I can Curse (Try wounding a frost phoenix of a T7 star dragon when you have to reroll 6s) and Harmonic Convergence my shooting blocks.

Ice Shards and Comet helps in the warmachine department as well.

Thoughts?

[Atlantic]

I think you need a bit more target saturation.

As it stands now the Dragon is going to get all of the attention from all of the enemy artillery. He's tough though so it might not matter, but then again if he goes down early that takes alot of the punch from your list.

How do you feel about changing your rare to 2 bolt throwers / 2 frost phoenixes? That *might* help.

Given that you don't have a level 4 wizard, it might be helpful to try a level 2 high magic wizard with the ring and then pair it with your heavens wizard. You get a wide variety of spell selection and a pseudo level 3.

[jamierk]

I'm playing monster mash lists right now also, what about getting a flame phoenix in alongside a frost? I know he is sub-optimal in alot of ways to frosty, but just the ability to deploy him and move him aggressively turn one, he goes down to a cannon, so what. He took one for the team, provides a block to any troops moving through where he died and has the chance of coming back up later. He's also the only monster we have immune to flaming attacks, so half the war machines can't kill him and you can pick out any flaming troops the enemy has an safely charge them without fear. Even if he is just a nuisance to troops who use regen as their protection. Would like to see how he goes in the context of these lists.