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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:52 am 
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Game 7: High Elves vs Ogre Kingdoms

I slightly modified this list to be less competitive since my opponent wasn't bringing a tournament list. My opponent also had just bought and painted some new Ogre models and wanted to try them out, and also wanted to test out a few other things he hadn't played before/hadn't played in a long time.

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Enchanted Shield, Star Lance, The Other Trickster's Shard, Talisman of Preservation
Mage Level 1 w/ Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armor, Shield
23x Archers w/ Standard
5x Ellyrian Reavers w/ Musician
30x Spearmen FC w/ Banner of Swiftness
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
5x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC
Frostheart Phoenix
Flamespyre Phoenix

Ogre Kingdoms:
Butcher Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Iron Fist
Bruiser BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Iron Fist, Mountaineater
Hunter w/ Harpoon Launcher, Beast Killer, Talisman of Protection
Bruiser w/ Heavy Armor, Giant Breaker, Brace of Ogre Pistols
7x Ironguts FC w/ Dragonhide Banner
10x Ogres FC w/ Iron Fists
10x Gnoblars
6x Leadbelchers
6x Leadbelchers
4x Mournfang FC w/ Heavy Armor, Great Weapons
Thundertusk

Magic:
Mage: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma

Butcher: Toothcracker, Bullgorger

Deployment:
This table had a fairly large amount of terrain on it, making movement slightly difficult for larger units and even though the fliers could move over the buildings, they had trouble seeing through them so they were also constricted. The High Elf line had the Spearmen in the center with Archers on their right with the Mage. On the far right the small unit of Dragon Princes would try to draw Ogre attention in that direction. To the left of the Spears were the Reavers and behind this center force was the Flamespyre. The large Dragon Princes and the Star Dragon were to the left of the Reavers to drive up the left flank and the Frostheart was on the far left. The Ogres put the Hunter opposite the Frostheart with the Gnoblars in some trees on their far right and the Mournfang set up to counter the Dragon Princes. The Ogre center held the Bulls with the BSB and Butcher inside and the Thundertusk behind. One unit of Leadbelchers bridged the gap between the Mournfang and the Bulls and the other was on the Bulls' left. The Ironguts with the other Bruiser were on the far left. The Reavers vanguarded up behind a tower.

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Initial Thoughts:
The Ironguts are out of place and I think I can exploit that and draw them further away with the Small Princes. The Ogre center will advance hard and fast and I'll try to slow it down with the Spearmen and Archers while the Frostheart, Dragon Princes, and Star Dragon deal with the Ogre right flank, then they will circle back around behind the Ogre center to destroy them. The Thundertusk isn't supporting the Mournfang which is good news for me. The Leadbelchers could be a problem particularly for my cavalry so they will need to be dealt with. The lack of a Level 4 should mean magic is much more balanced than I had thought it would be, and without a Tyrant I don't think there's really much of anything that can severely impede the Star Dragon.

Ogre Kingdoms Turn 1:
Most units advanced forwards, the Bulls moved quickly in the center, faster than I had expected. The Mournfang shuffled forwards to make sure I didn't have an easy charge on them.
Magic is 9-6 and a boosted Bullgorger miscasts wounding the Butcher and costing the other dice.
In shooting the Hunter wounds the Frostheart once with a harpoon and the Thundertusk fires everything at the Flamespyre but fails to harm it. One unit of Leadbelchers kills a Dragon Prince while the other kills 3 Archers.

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High Elves Turn 1:
The army advances forwards. The small Dragon Princes head around the church to try and draw away the Ironguts while the Reavers move in the path of the Mournfang to direct their charge into a building and prevent them from charging the Dragon Princes or the Star Dragon. The Flamespyre moves behind the tower to flank the Ogre center, the Frostheart moves behind a building to hide from the Hunter's harpoon, and the Star Dragon and Dragon Princes move up to hit the Mournfang. The Archers and Spears hold station.
Magic is a small 4-3 phase that sees Miasma on the Leadbelchers opposing the Star Dragon scrolled.
The Archers then put 4 wounds on the other Leadbelchers.

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(note the Flamespyre is facing to the right but the model is facing left because of the tower and the Frostheart is beside the house not on top of it)
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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 2:
A last minute adjustment of the Small Princes unfortunately brought them within average charge range of the Ironguts which I had been trying to avoid. Therefore the Ironguts charged the Small Princes who fled to prevent the Ironguts from appearing behind my flank shortly. The Gnoblars then charged the flank of the Reavers. The center again advanced forwards.
Magic was 5-5 and Toothcracker on the Bulls was dispelled while Bullgorger failed to cast the boosted version.
The Leadbelchers shot the Star Dragon but didn't harm it, the other Leadbelchers killed 4 more Archers, and the Hunter harpooned the Prince but his ward save protected him. Another direct hit from the stone thrower wounded the Flamespyre once.
In combat the Gnoblars take one casualty without causing any and the Reavers reformed to face them.

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High Elves Turn 2:
I'm now in an extremely annoying situation that I didn't expect. The one possible bad result of the Reaver positioning had happened as they were now covering the Mournfang from my charges. The Dragon Princes, Frostheart, and Star Dragon could not all fit in with their charges. Worse, I couldn't get both the Frostheart and Star Dragon into the Mournfang. I therefore decided to charge the Star Dragon into the Mournfang and the Frostheart into the Leadbelchers. The Dragon Princes reformed and headed towards the center to flank the Bulls while the Archers and Spearmen shuffled backwards to be out of average charge range for the Bulls. The Flamespyre flew over the Bulls wounding them twice and took up position behind them.
Magic was 9-6 and Miasma miscast on the Bulls dropping their movement by 2, but killing 5 Archers.
The Archers then killed the wounded Leadbelcher.
The Frostheart disappointingly only wounded the Leadbelchers twice, then disastrously took two wounds. The Reavers then killed 6 Gnoblars without taking damage and ran the Gnoblars down and into the Mournfang fight. The Star Dragon and Reavers then killed 2 Mournfang and wounded another one once and took no damage in return. The Mournfang broke and the Star Dragon reformed to face the Leadbelchers to rescue the beleaguered Frostheart instead of chasing them. I then made a rules mistake in not having the Reavers pursue the Mournfang. Casualties had taken the Mournfang out of base to base with the Reavers and I thought that they then could not pursue the retreating Mournfang, though reading the rules again I believe they should have been able to.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 3:
The Hunter charged the flank of the Frostheart Phoenix skirting around the Reavers. The Bulls failed their charge on the Spearmen and shuffled forwards. The Ironguts turned towards the center and the Thundertusk turned to face the Flamespyre. The Mournfang survivors rallied.
Magic was 7-5 and a 3-dice casting of Toothcracker made it through the 5-dice dispel attempt to boost the Bulls and a bubble version of Bullgorger was scrolled.
The Flamespyre then took 3 wounds from the Thunderhorn harpoon and 5 Archers were killed by the Leadbelchers.
The Frostheart then wounded the Leadbelchers 3 times and took none in return.

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High Elves Turn 3:
The Spearmen and Dragon Princes tried to execute their trap. The Dragon Princes hit the Bulls in the flank but the Spearmen rolled double-1s and stayed put. The Star Dragon charged the Leadbelchers. The Small Princes moved forwards to get back into the game. I had been waffling on whether or not the charge the injured Flamespyre into combat, and after I decided against it I promptly forgot to move him at all, leaving a flank open to the Thundertusk.
Magic was 6-5 and Miasma went on the Bulls for WS.
The heavily damaged Archers only wounded the Leadbelchers once.
The Frostheart and Star Dragon then wounded the Leadbelchers 8 times taking no damage in return. The Hunter and Belchers both fled with the Star Dragon running down the Leadbelchers and the Frostheart failing to catch the Hunter. The Dragon Princes wound the Bulls 5 times and take no damage in return but the Bulls hold and reform to face the cavalry.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 4:
The Thundertusk charges the Flamespyre and the Ironguts fail towards the Star Dragon. The Leadbelchers fail their charge on the Archers while the Mournfang charge the Dragon in the rear.
Magic is 7-3 that has Bullgorger go onto the Bulls and the bubble Toothcracker cast.
The heroic Flamespyre than manages to wound the Stonehorn twice after being invigorated by the Winds of Magic previously and then miraculously doesn't take any damage! The Mournfang then hit the Prince for two wounds while the Star Dragon wounds them 4 times, however, they hold and the Star Dragon turns to face them. The Dragon Princes then wound the Bulls 3 times taking 2 wounds for a tie combat.

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High Elves Turn 4:
The Frostheart charged the Hunter and the Spearmen charge the flank of the Bulls.
Magic put Miasma on the Bulls dropping their WS by 2.
The Archers put one more wound on the Leadbelchers.
Combat saw the Spearmen and Dragon Princes wound the toughened Ogres only 4 times, with 3 Spearmen dying and 2 Dragon Princes dying. The Ogres held in combat due to the BSB reroll.
The Star Dragon then barely killed the Mournfang after some bad rolls and the Frostheart wounded the Hunter 3 times taking 1 in return, but running the Hunter down. The Thundertusk then killed the Flamespyre.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 5:
The Leadbelchers charged the Archers and the Ironguts charged the Star Dragon.
Magic was 6-4 that put Bullgorger on the Ironguts but Toothcracker was dispelled on the Bulls.
The Stonethrower made 3-for-3 and got a direct hit on the Frostheart, but failed to hurt it.
The Archers wounded the Leadbelchers once but were wiped out in return along with the Mage.
The Star Dragon then challenged the Bruiser who was forced to accept. The Star Dragon took one wound but killed the Bruiser.
With the Bulls one Spearmen died and 2 Dragon Princes but the Bulls took 7 wounds and broke from combat. The Dragon Princes not only failed to catch them but also unfortunately the pursuit took them right into the Ironguts!

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High Elves Turn 5:
The Small Princes continued to move up to try to get into the fight and the Spearmen turned to face the Leadbelchers. The Frostheart moved to cover the Star Dragon from the Thundertusk and the Reavers moved behind the Thundertusk.
Combat saw the Dragon Princes killed by the Ironguts and the Star Dragon take 3 wounds. 8 wounds were done to the Ironguts, but they held in combat.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 6:
The Thundertusk charged the Frostheart and the Bulls failed to rally but stayed on the board.
The Leadbelchers tried and failed to kill any of the Small Princes.
The single Irongut on the flank then killed the BSB but the Ironguts were wiped out after losing combat and being caught in the pursuit. The Thundertusk took 2 more wounds but killed the Frostheart.

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High Elves Turn 6:
The Reavers ran the Bulls off the board and the Spearmen charged the Leadbelchers killing them at the cost of 4 elves. The Star Dragon was blocking the Small Princes from charging the Thundertusk as they would have liked.

High Elf Victory!

Thoughts:
This game was tougher than I had initially expected, I thought with the Thundertusk not supporting the Mournfang and the Ironguts so far out of position it would be easier to win. My mistake with the positioning of the small Princes moving them slightly too close meant that they never got into the fight and only occupied the Ironguts for 2 turns instead of what could have been more. The Reavers and the Gnoblars were also crucial to the game in a way I hadn't expected at all. Any result of that combat would have been better than the one that occurred. Had the Reavers been forced to flee and gotten caught that would leave the Gnoblars exposed and my fliers could just move over them and the Dragon Princes could charge them and overrun into the Mournfang like the Reavers later did. Or if the Reavers had forced the Gnoblars to run then they would have been out of the way. Instead they blocked up my charges. In hindsight the charges I did were not the right ones to do. The Star Dragon was correct in the Mournfang charge but the Dragon Princes should have hit the Leadbelchers instead of the Frostheart, which I believe would have fit. This would have forced the Leadbelchers to flee and the Star Dragon could have chased down the Mournfang. I was motivated against that by the Hunter's harpoon concerning me for the Frostheart especially with his Big Name. The Frostheart could have moved to the center or moved to counter the Hunter in some other way. I also shouldn't have forgotten to move the Flamespyre and I'm really not sure how I did, but I didn't notice it until the shooting phase. The Thundertusk is also remarkably powerful, particularly with the Ironguts as it made my Star Dragon attack at the same time as the Ironguts and removed the rerolls from my Prince. The Ogre magic was also much better than it should have been, but this was partially because my opponent's casting rolls were extremely good, never rolling below a 9 or 10 to cast a spell whether using 2 dice or 3. My strategy this game broke down due to the Reaver positioning and my error in charge choices and that turned it into a swirling melee that very nearly cost me the game.


We had a bit of time left over before the store closed, so we decided to fight out a 1500 point game which I will post next!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
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I wouldn’t be surprised if you ran into a Dark Elf list like this at Hockley CR:

Dreadlord, 1+ RR AS, Peg + 4+ Ward or Horse + S7
Lvl 4, Scroll, Horse

BSB, Peg, 3++ Cloak
Peg Hero 4++
Peg Hero 4++

3 x 10 (or so) Dark Riders, FC, RXB, Shield
4 RBT
2 x 5 Warlocks

I agree that Archery is more reliable. However, a low magic phase pretty much means you get precisely one spell through, unless he wants to burn a scroll. Ultimately of course it’s very difficult to redirect flyers, so your army cares less than most.

The Ogre list just doesn’t bring enough tools, does it? No cannon, limited magic. It did have some shooting, which at least made the Phoenixes pay attention. I’m not sure splitting it’s fighting power between the Bulls and Ironguts was wise, the usual Gutbus looks better.

Deployment looked OK, I agree the Ironguts were a bit isolated. I see what you mean about the Reaver combat. Critically though, the Star Dragon still had a clear path and you’re always favourite for me after that. The Thundertusk was indeed good, wasn’t it? Ogres can grind surprisingly well I’ve found but here you just had too much force for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if you ran into a Dark Elf list like this at Hockley CR:

Dreadlord, 1+ RR AS, Peg + 4+ Ward or Horse + S7
Lvl 4, Scroll, Horse

BSB, Peg, 3++ Cloak
Peg Hero 4++
Peg Hero 4++

3 x 10 (or so) Dark Riders, FC, RXB, Shield
4 RBT
2 x 5 Warlocks


Well that list just looks mean. I'm not quite sure what the best strategy to fight it would be. Do you think the best target for archer fire would be the bolt throwers or the Warlocks? I can see arguments in favor of both. My cavalry could probably beat any of the enemy units in combat, but that depends on being able to catch them and depends on how intact they are when they reach combat. Likewise I think the Star Dragon could beat anything there in combat and I think the Frosthearts would have a very good shot against the pegasus heroes in combat, though that could depend on if the pegasus heroes get the charge with lances/if they have great weapons. But that of course depends on getting the charge on them, they'll match my maneuverability and with their firepower advantage they've got less incentive to meet me in combat. I think that could be a very tough match-up for me.

SpellArcher wrote:
The Ogre list just doesn’t bring enough tools, does it? No cannon, limited magic. It did have some shooting, which at least made the Phoenixes pay attention. I’m not sure splitting it’s fighting power between the Bulls and Ironguts was wise, the usual Gutbus looks better.

Deployment looked OK, I agree the Ironguts were a bit isolated. I see what you mean about the Reaver combat. Critically though, the Star Dragon still had a clear path and you’re always favourite for me after that. The Thundertusk was indeed good, wasn’t it? Ogres can grind surprisingly well I’ve found but here you just had too much force for them.


It did have a few issues. Without cannons it was a bit lacking in heavy hitting. The Ironguts always hit hard and I thought the Mournfang had potential as long as they managed to attack, but they didn't get most of their attacks in due to low initiative. That's one reason why I thought that the Thundertusk should support the Mournfang. I think having two Ogre units is fine, I've seen it work well, but all the characters should have been in one bus and I think an Irongut bus with Bull support would be much better than a Bull bus with Irongut support. The grinding power of Ogres was something that I had anticipated, but it was still more than I expected, particularly with those extremely simple +1 S and +1 T spells, they are amazing for their value. Their big problem was me beating them in combat and then them breaking because their Leadership isn't that good. I now realize why Spinemarrow is actually a really good signature spell! I do think the list would also have done much better with a Level 4 or a Tyrant, which my opponent acknowledged as well, this was a variant list trying out the Hunter for the first time and in another version he drops the Hunter and replaces a Bruiser with a Tyrant and in a different one he takes a Slaughtermaster instead of a Tyrant. Both of those lists I think would be better, though admittedly they'd lose some of the shooting that caused the Phoenixes issues.

As a side note, it was pointed out to me elsewhere I forgot to place the Phoenix Reborn counter! I should pay more attention to my rules on models I don't play often. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:47 pm 
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The Warlocks are definitely public enemy #1 and must be persecuted with extreme prejudice! Mobile boosted Doombolt is just too dangerous to allow. The Star Dragon doesn’t care (or about much else in the list) but a casting of The Withering for example could suddenly change that. The shooting isn’t horrific but it can chip away at you.

Low Initiative can be a real problem for Monstrous Cavalry, it’s why Bloodcrushers for example are no good. Again I completely agree that the Bulls should be the support, without characters. I believe the standard banner choice is +1 Ld on the Ironguts, Rune Maw on the BSB. As you must know from Lizardmen CR, even a modest magic phase is really helpful and doesn’t have to cost the earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:44 pm 
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Game 8: High Elves vs Ogre Kingdoms

Well, it's been a while and been very busy, but I've finally got time to write up this report! This was our second game that we managed to squeeze in before the store closed, so it was only 1500 points. I opponent and I both had to quickly come up with lists since neither of us play 1500 much, and my opponent ended up being ~140 points over on accident, but no matter, the game went ahead anyways!

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed w/ Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade
Dragon Mage of Caledor Level 1 w/ Dragon Armor
5x Ellyrian Reavers
30x Spearmen FC
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
Frostheart Phoenix

Ogre Kingdoms:
Butcher Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Additional Hand Weapon
Bruiser BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Ogre Pistol
7x Ironguts FC w/ Dragonhide Banner
7x Ogres FC w/ Iron Fists
3x Leadbelchers
4x Mournfang FC w/ Heavy Armor and Great Weapons
Thundertusk

Magic:
Dragon Mage: Flaming Sword of Rhuin
Butcher: Spinemarrow, Toothcracker

Deployment:
We used the same table and terrain again to keep it simple. The Spearmen went in the center of the board with the Reavers slightly to their right. The Dragon Princes went off farther to the right to either skirt around the Church or drive up the center. The Frostheart went behind the Spearmen and the Dragon Mage took position to the left of the Spearmen to support the flank. On the Ogre side the Mournfang were in the center of the board with the Ironguts to their right and the Bulls farther to their left. The Leadbelchers were a bit behind the line as they had trouble fitting. The Thundertusk sat behind the Ogre line. The Butcher was with the Bulls and the Bruiser with the Ironguts. The Reavers vanguarded into the center a bit.

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Initial Thoughts:
I'm not really sure about this points level. My hitting units don't have nearly the same power as they had before making the Ogre units much more difficult to engage. I doubt any one of my units can engage any of his three combat blocks alone and come out without severe damage. Flaming Sword should be a fantastic spell if I ever manage to cast it. The deployment is also favorable to the Ogres, currently it looks like the fight will mostly drive into the center of the board and that makes it much harder to destroy the Ogre blocks one at a time like necessary.

High Elves Turn 1:
Everything moves forwards a bit forming a concave line so that I cannot be flanked and hoping to draw the Ogres towards my center.
Magic puts Flaming Sword on the Dragon Princes.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 1:
The line generally advances forwards with the Ogres mirroring my line formation to an extent. The Leadbelchers move out so that they can shoot.
Magic is only a 4 dice phase, but it is an extremely effective one as Toothcracker and Spinemarrow both go onto the Mournfang who had advanced a bit aggressively.
The Leadbelchers kill 3 of the Reavers who panic and flee. The Thundertusk kills 1 Dragon Prince with his stone thrower.

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High Elves Turn 2:
I wasn't sure what to do here. Spinemarrow and Toothcracker make the Mournfang very tough to crack, and I'm not sure if falling back is a good idea because I'll take more damage from shooting, the Ogres may charge in, and there's no guarantee that I'll get a better opportunity as my deployment had left the center fight essentially the only option. I therefore knew that everything had to hit the Mournfang and hit it hard, so the Frostheart, Dragon Mage, and Dragon Princes all charged the Mournfang and the Spearmen moved forwards to flank the Ironguts if the Mournfang held and they counter-charged.
Magic was 3-2 and Flaming Sword was scrolled.
Combat then saw everything launched into the Mournfang including the Dragon Mage's breath weapon. When the dust cleared the Mournfang had been killed to the last Ogre before they got to strike. The Dragon Princes overran into the Leadbelchers, the Frostheart pushed forwards and the Dragon Mage clipped the Ironguts in the overrun.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 2:
The Thundertusk charged the Frostheart in the flank, the Bulls charged the Dragon Princes in the flank, and all other units were engaged.
Magic put Toothcracker on the Ironguts.
Combat saw the Dragon Mage wound the Ironguts once, and then the Dragonhide Banner breath weapon wounded the Dragon twice, the Mage took a wound, and the Ironguts finished off the Dragon. The Mage fled and the Ironguts reformed. The Frostheart wounded the Thundertusk once at no injury but lost combat. He held, but failed the test to reform to face. The Prince wounded the Butcher twice and the other Dragon Prince on the flank killed the Butcher before the Leadbelchers took 5 wounds. In return 4 Dragon Princes were killed, but they won combat. The Leadbelchers ran and the Dragon Princes turned to face the Bulls.

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High Elves Turn 3:
The Spearmen charged the Irongut flank and the Mage rallied.
Another 3-2 phase saw the Phoenix stay weakened but Flaming Sword went up on the Dragon Princes.
The Dragon Princes therefore wounded the Ogres 8 times taking none in return and ran the Ogres down. The Spearmen wounded the Ironguts twice and took 2 casualties. The Thundertusk and Frostheart both took a wound this time and the Frostheart again passed his break test but failed the reform test.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 3:
The Leadbelchers rallied.
The Frostheart, still weak from magic, and the Thundertusk both failed to wound and this time Frosty failed his break test and ran. The Thundertusk did not manage to catch him, though. The Spearmen then promptly failed their Fear test and only wounded the Ironguts twice, but lost only 1 Spear. The Ironguts then broke from combat but the Spearmen didn't catch them. Fleeing through the Frostheart cost the Ironguts one more wound.

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High Elves Turn 4:
The Frostheart rallied and the Spearmen shuffled forwards. The Dragon Princes turned around to get back into the action.
Magic saw the Dragon Mage miscast and blow himself up. Flaming Sword went onto the Frostheart, though.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 4:
The Thundertusk shifted to stand beside the rallied Ironguts.
Shooting killed 6 Spearmen with the Leadbelchers.

High Elves Turn 5:
The Frostheart and Dragon Princes charge the Thundertusk, the Spearmen charge the Ironguts, and the Reavers foolishly decide to charge the Leadbelchers.
Combat sees the Frostheart and Dragon Princes kill the Thundertusk and the overrun puts the Frostheart into the Ironguts. That combat then sees the Spearmen take 7 casualties and inflict only 3 wounds. The Reavers wounded the Leadbelchers once but were killed by the last remaining Ogre.

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Ogre Kingdoms Turn 5:
The Leadbelchers charges the Dragon Princes and is killed, the Ironguts take 4 wounds and inflict 1 but break from combat and flee off the table.

High Elf Victory!

Thoughts:
I'm not sure about 1500 point games. I didn't really like my list too much, I would have liked a BSB a great deal. Killing the Mournfang was also lucky, the dice tipped in my favor a bit there, but I don't think it would have been too catastrophic for them to have survived. The Ironguts would have killed the Dragon Mage and overrun to the Frostheart who would have held them in place for the Spearmen to flank them. The biggest difference would have been that when the Bulls flanked in the Dragon Princes would have lost their charge bonus instead of keeping it. I think the combat against the Mournfang definitely decided the game and the only real mistake my opponent made was to put the Mournfang within average charge range of the Dragon Mage, the Frostheart, and the Dragon Princes all. Had they stayed a bit farther back, it would have been much for difficult for me.


I managed to get a game against Beastmen in yesterday! Hopefully that one won't take two weeks to write up. We shall see.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:41 pm 
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Green Istari

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Looking at the lists CR, yours lacks BSB as you pointed out and scroll of course, though these things should hurt you less at 1500. The Frostheart remains good and the Prince is nice. The Dragon Mage should still be handy though obviously the stat line is much reduced. The Ironguts look useful, though I’d have been tempted to put both characters in there.

Deployment seemed OK for the Ogres, as you say. I gather you had no time to fan out your fast troops and go for the Ogre flanks? Could the Mournfangs have Fled from the combo-charge and safely got away? The Ironguts did a real number on the Dragon but couldn’t hold on against combo-charges. The game did seem a bit messy but well played winning against those extra points.

CaledorRises wrote:
I managed to get a game against Beastmen in yesterday! Hopefully that one won't take two weeks to write up. We shall see.

Should be interesting. I’d have thought your list would give Beastmen fits CR but did they have End Times rules for Marks of Chaos etc.?

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:19 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Looking at the lists CR, yours lacks BSB as you pointed out and scroll of course, though these things should hurt you less at 1500. The Frostheart remains good and the Prince is nice. The Dragon Mage should still be handy though obviously the stat line is much reduced. The Ironguts look useful, though I’d have been tempted to put both characters in there.

Deployment seemed OK for the Ogres, as you say. I gather you had no time to fan out your fast troops and go for the Ogre flanks? Could the Mournfangs have Fled from the combo-charge and safely got away? The Ironguts did a real number on the Dragon but couldn’t hold on against combo-charges. The game did seem a bit messy but well played winning against those extra points.


The only reason for not having the BSB was that at 1500 I didn't think it would be mandatory. Would have really helped, though. I was trying to fit a scroll in, but decided to drop it to keep the Dragon Prince numbers up. Not sure if it was the best idea.

I think my deployment is what stopped trying to encircle the enemy. I deployed too close and constricted and then the Ogres were too fast for fanning out to be all that safe. I was also expecting the Mournfang to move much farther forwards than they did, and therefore committed to my strategy too soon. The Mournfang could have fled and gotten away, the charges were average range mostly so I would have had to roll very high and my opponent very low for them to be caught, but I think my opponent was expecting them to be the anvil for his units. Because all the charges were average range on very fast units, if he had fled I'm not certain it would have put him in a better position, the Bulls wouldn't have been able to counter charge and the Ironguts would have found it difficult, though it might have been possible.

SpellArcher wrote:
Should be interesting. I’d have thought your list would give Beastmen fits CR but did they have End Times rules for Marks of Chaos etc.?


That's almost prophetic. They did play End Times Glottkin so there was the revision to Beastmen Ambush, there were some Marks of Chaos, and there was also a solitary Chaos Sorcerer of Fire to help out the magic phase. I hope to get it written this week.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:19 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
That's almost prophetic. They did play End Times Glottkin so there was the revision to Beastmen Ambush, there were some Marks of Chaos, and there was also a solitary Chaos Sorcerer of Fire to help out the magic phase. I hope to get it written this week.

Sounds very interesting. Doombulls with Mark of Tzeentch for example are a real challenge. Fire is pretty good vs elves generally though perhaps less so against Monsters. Looking forward to it!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:56 am 
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Game 9: High Elves vs Beastmen (Legions of Chaos)

Finally getting around to writing this one up! My opponent was playing a 99% Beastmen list, but with the Legions of Chaos adjustments for the Reign of Chaos table and the updated Beastmen Ambush and Marks of Chaos rules. As a note for this battle, there was a power imbalance in the lists. I had warned my opponent I would be bringing a list in preparation for a tournament, but I believe I understated its strength and my opponent underestimated it, so the game isn't as balanced as it ideally would have been. Nevertheless, it went ahead! There was also a slight issue in the Beastmen army list with haveing 2 Arcane Items on one model; a Chaos Familiar and the Skull of Katam.

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Enchanted Shield, Star Lance, The Other Trickster's Shard, Talisman of Preservation
Mage Level 1 w/ Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armor, Shield
23x Archers w/ Standard
5x Ellyrian Reavers w/ Musician
30x Spearmen FC w/ Banner of Swiftness
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
5x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix

Legions of Chaos:
Doombull w/ Heavy Armor, Mark of Nurgle, Axes of Khorgor, Ramhorn Helm, Gnarled Hide
Bray Shaman Level 2 w/ Lore of Beasts, Chalice of Dark Rain, Ironcurse Icon
Chaos Sorcerer Level 1 w/ Lore of Fire, Chaos Familiar, Skull of Katam
Wargor BSB w/ Heavy Armor, Horn of the Great Hunt
5x Warhounds w/ Vanguard
33x Gor FC w/ Additional Hand Weapon
15x Gor w/ Standard, Additional Hand Weapon
15x Gor w/ Standard, Additional Hand Weapon
Tuskgor Chariot
5x Ungor Raider w/ Champion
5x Ungor Raider w/ Champion
5x Ungor Raider w/ Champion
Chaos Spawn of Slaanesh
Ghorgon
18x Bestigor FC w/ Banner of Swiftness
5x Minotaur w/ Standard, Additional Hand Weapon, Mark of Nurgle

Magic:
Mage: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma

Chaos Sorcerer: Cascading Fire Cloak, Fireball
Bray Shaman: Curse of Anrahier, Wyssan's Wildform

Deployment:
The two small units of Gors and all three Ungor units went into ambush. There was a large skull rock in the center of the board that I decided to use as a wall of sorts to pivot my line around. To accomplish this I put the Spearmen in the center of the board with the Archers on a hill to their right. The Dragon Prince Bus was between them. One Frostheart went behind the Spearmen and the other farther to my left. The Star Dragon deployed on my far right. In an effort to draw Beastmen towards the wrong flank the Reavers and small Princes deployed on my left flank with the other Frostheart which could easily shift right when needed. Opposite me the Ghorgon held the Beastmen far left with the large Gor block including both wizards to its right. The Minotaurs and Bestigor held the center with the Spawn, Chariot, and Warhounds off on the Beastmen right. Vanguard pushed the Warhounds straight forwards and the Reavers moved off to the right to intercept the Minotaurs.

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Initial Thoughts:
The Beastmen don't have anything that can really threaten my fliers. I can completely decide which combats they will be in and when they'll be in them which gives me a massive advantage. The Doombull could be a serious problem but I can hopefully redirect him for a while and I think my Star Dragon will beat him in a pitched battle. I think my opponent could get bottled up on my right flank with too many units trying to move forwards, and careful chaff positioning should help that. I'm not sure about the ambushing models. They could threaten my Archers but the units are too small to be a real concern for anything else unless they rear charge one of my units.

High Elves Turn 1:
The Reavers pushed forwards to try and draw the Minotaurs towards the skull in the center. The fliers all shifted right and forwards a bit and the center moved up to potentially get a turn 2 charge against an aggressive Beastmen advance.
Magic is 7-5 and I decide to skip the phase as to get a spell I'd need to roll too many dice and I didn't want to miscast.
The shooting phase sees the Chalice of Dark Rain used to reduce the power of the Archers but nevertheless they take 4 wounds off the Minotaurs.

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Beastmen Turn 1:
The Bestigor charge the Reavers in the flank which I had foolishly failed to anticipate. The Minotaurs successfully restrain. The rest of the field advances. One unit of Ungor Raiders then appears on my right along with one of the Gor units while the other Gor unit shows up on my left. The other Raider units stay in ambush.
Magic is 9-5 and the Reign of Chaos kills 1 Dragon Prince. The Skull of Katam is activated. Fireball then kills 1 Archer and Curse of Anrahier goes off on the Dragon Princes with a failed dispel attempt.
Combat has the Reavers kill 1 Bestigor and lose 3 Elves in return. They flee but are not caught.

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High Elves Turn 2:
One Frostheart charges the big Gor block while the other charges the Ghorgon. The Star Dragon charges the Raiders who are forced to flee in terror and then redirects into the Ghorgon's flank. The Reavers rally. The small Prince unit fails to swift reform so they just turn to face the Gors. The Archers turn to face the Gors on their flank.
Magic is 7-6 and again no spells are cast.
The Frostheart and Star Dragon kill the Ghorgon and the Frostheart overruns wiping out the Ungor Raiders while the Star Dragon reforms. The other Frostheart kills 1 Gor and also kills the Chaos Sorcerer.

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Beastmen Turn 2:
The Chariot charges the Dragon Princes with a 10" roll. I had thought the charge impossible, and we definitely played it wrong putting the Chariot onto the flank instead of the rear, but it's possible it could have fit/clipped the rear to make the charge legal, looking at pictures I cannot tell the space available and we didn't check it at the time. The Minotaurs charge the Reavers that had moved to redirect them. The Gors charge the Archers and the Warhounds charge the Spearmen in the flank. One of the other Raider units arrives on the far Beastmen right.
Magic is a massive 12-6 phase that has Horn of the Wild Hunt miscast. A 4 dice casting of Wildform also gets through the 6 dice dispel to boost the Gors fighting the Archers. Curse of Anrahier on the Archers is scrolled since I thought the Mage would likely die if I didn't use the scroll, costing the scroll anyways.
In a stunning twist, the Archers kill 4 Gor at the cost of 4 and hold. This was due to some truly bad dice rolls on the Beastmen side. The Reavers are obliterated. The Spearmen kill 3 Warhounds at no loss and the dogs flee. The Dragon Princes wound the Chariot once and lose 3, breaking and getting run down. The Frostheart then kills 5 Gor at the cost of 1 wound.

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High Elves Turn 3:
The Star Dragon charges the Gor horde in the flank while the Dragon Princes flank the Minotaurs with the Spearmen in the front of the Minotaurs.
Magic is 11-6 and a 6 dice Miasma is dispelled.
The Archers kill 3 Gor at the cost of 2. The Gor unit champ challenges out the Star Dragon and is horribly killed while 7 more Gor die to the Frostheart while the Frostheart takes another wound. In another massive twist the Gor then fail their rerollable LD 8 and break and are promptly run down. The Spearmen return the favor with the unit champ challenging out the Doombull. He is turned to paste but in return the Spearmen and Dragon Princes wipe out the Minotaurs. The Doombull then breaks from combat resolution and is run down.

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Beastmen Turn 3:
The Bestigor charge the rear of the Spearmen and the other Gor and chariot continue to run towards the action.
The magic phase sees the Prince take a wound from the Reign of Chaos.
Combat has the Archers kill 3 Gor at the cost of 3 more elves. The Spearmen then kill 2 Bestigor, but a double-1 Primal Fury roll sees 12 Spearmen cut down and they break and are destroyed.

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With the imminent rear charge of the Bestigor by the Dragon Princes and a flank by the Frostheart along with the stubborn refusal of the Archers to die we decided to call the game as a High Elf victory.

Thoughts:
I definitely had the more powerful list. The Frosthearts and Star Dragon weren't really in any danger throughout the game and had the hitting power to clean up the rest of the board if we continued. I think a lot of that is my fault for bringing a tournament list to a much more casual game. I can also say that I have never seen so many failed Leadership tests as my opponent had this game. He consistently failed very nearly every Primal Fury test he took. Some of that is evidence of the need for the Beastlord to be the general with his Ld 9, but it's also just very bad luck. I also think the Minotaur unit would have been much deadlier if it was bigger. It also would have worked much better with a unit champion to take the challenge from my unit champs. I managed to beat the Doombull through Combat Resolution alone which was huge as the Doombull would have carved through much of my Dragon Princes and Spearmen had it not been in a challenge. I think I played reasonably well, I didn't draw as many units away with the small Princes as I had hoped, but it was a few. The bottleneck in the center also developed as I had hoped with the Bestigor being blocked by the Minotaurs which delayed their entry into the game. I think on the last turn my opponent made a mistake with the Bestigor charge, the Spearmen seemed like a lucrative target and definitely were all killed, but considering the forces around there, there was no way the Bestigor could kill the Spearmen and survive the riposte. I think charging the Dragon Princes would be much better as the great weapons were the best chance my opponent had of taking out the Dragon Princes and it removed their lance bonus. Furthermore the Spearmen would actually have screened the Bestigor for a short while from the counter charges so the Bestigor might have been able to kill the Princes and then reform to face the fliers. However, regardless of that, the only units the Beastmen had that had any potential of threatening the fliers were now dead, making the Beastmen victory very difficult to achieve.


In light of the list disparity, today we played another game. My opponent brought his Vampire Counts and I brought a modified list where I dropped both Frosthearts in exchange for a Phoenix Guard block. That one I will write up as soon as possible!

Hockley is next weekend and I'm looking forward to it! I finally finished painting my Star Dragon! I also very foolishly submitted my list with the 12 Silver Helms, so here's hoping I can paint 12 cavalry before my train Friday afternoon. I'm also hoping to get a pickup game Friday night that I can write a full report on (also to run the Silver Helms once before the tournament), and then my reports for Hockley will be massively less detailed, I'll try to take a picture for each turn but won't be able to record all casualties and such as that takes too much time!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:43 pm 
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In my experience, Reign of Chaos tends to hurt MSU armies the most, so it not having a huge effect this game was not such a shock CR. Beastmen are underpowered anyway but there were a few ways your opponent’s list could have been stronger. Firstly, he really wants Beast Banner on the BSB to buff his main block and Gnarled Hide etc. to get a 2+ AS. The Doombull is OK but a 4+ Ward would go to 3+ with Mark of Tzeentch, quite nasty. He can consider running the guy solo. The Ghorgon is interesting but the lack of saves means many armies would take him down with shooting/magic, especially with no Dispel Scroll. The fighting units are just not strong enough, agree completely that he needs at least 8 Minotaurs. I still think an optimised list would struggle with your flyers but at least it could put up a fight.

I love Skull Rock, how much more Warhammer can it get? I liked your deployment, kill the Ghorgon and then into the Gor flank as indeed happened. I wonder if more of the Ambushing units could have come on behind your Infantry? I was a bit unsure about the Reavers, especially as feeding chaff to Minotaurs gives these bonuses but it worked out pretty well. The Frostheart charge to pin the Gor block was classic, with BSB within 12” your guy wasn’t going anywhere. Yes the Gors breaking was unlucky but it can happen, some really good players think even a Ld 9 General is risky. That was game over, pretty much.

Looking forward to PG vs VC! Also to Hockley of course, more stripped-down reports still very much appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:23 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
The Doombull is OK but a 4+ Ward would go to 3+ with Mark of Tzeentch, quite nasty. He can consider running the guy solo. The Ghorgon is interesting but the lack of saves means many armies would take him down with shooting/magic, especially with no Dispel Scroll. The fighting units are just not strong enough, agree completely that he needs at least 8 Minotaurs. I still think an optimised list would struggle with your flyers but at least it could put up a fight.


A solo Doombull would have been much more trouble for me, it's a lot harder to get that static CR to beat it and I would basically have to try to engage it with my Star Dragon and/or a Frostheart.

SpellArcher wrote:
I love Skull Rock, how much more Warhammer can it get? I liked your deployment, kill the Ghorgon and then into the Gor flank as indeed happened. I wonder if more of the Ambushing units could have come on behind your Infantry? I was a bit unsure about the Reavers, especially as feeding chaff to Minotaurs gives these bonuses but it worked out pretty well. The Frostheart charge to pin the Gor block was classic, with BSB within 12” your guy wasn’t going anywhere. Yes the Gors breaking was unlucky but it can happen, some really good players think even a Ld 9 General is risky. That was game over, pretty much.


Haha, yeah, we thought that skull would be a pretty cool addition to the table! Unfortunately the ambushing units couldn't. He rolled for them all to come on the flanks, he never got to choose for them to come in behind my lines like might have been more ideal. For the Reavers that was inexperience on my part. I didn't know Minotaurs get better by killing units!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Game 10: High Elves vs Undead Legions

Getting this one written up on time! This game, as mentioned above, featured a reduced competitiveness High Elf list and was going up against a primarily Vampire Counts Undead Legions list. I wasn't too sure what to expect and I've had problems with Vampire Counts in the past. It was also my first game with the newly painted Star Dragon so I was pretty sure it was going to die a horrible horrible death.
I also dropped the ball taking pictures this game a bit, so sorry about that.

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Enchanted Shield, Star Lance, The Other Trickster's Shard, Talisman of Preservation
Mage Level 2 w/ Dispel Scroll, Khaine's Ring of Fury, Lore of Shadow
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Dragon Armor, Shield
23x Archers w/ Standard
5x Ellyrian Reavers
30x Spearmen FC
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
5x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC
23x Phoenix Guard FC w/ Razor Standard

Undead Legions:
Vampire Lord Level 1 w/ Sword of Striking, Beguile, Aura of Dark Majesty, other stuff, Lore of Vampires
Wight King w/ stuff
Necromancer Level 2 w/ Lore of Death, Dispel Scroll
Master Necromancer Level 3 w/ Lore of Vampires, Black Periapt, Master of the Dead
Tomb Banshee
Tomb Banshee
Cairn Wraith
~40x Zombies w/ Standard
45x Skeleton Warriors FC w/ Spears
25x Skeleton Warriors FC
12x Skeleton Archers
5x Hexwraiths
3x Spirit Hosts
Corpse Cart
Mortis Engine
2x Morghast Archai

Magic:
Mage: Meloth's Mystifying Miasma, The Withering

Vampire Lord: Hellish Vigour
Master Necromancer: Invocation of Nehek, Wind of Death, Curse of Years
Necromancer: Doom and Darkness, Soulblight

Deployment:
We rolled up Battle for the Pass for the scenario which left me deploying on a narrower frontage than I would have liked. My line had the Archers on the far right next to the Spearmen and the Star Dragon in the center. The Phoenix Guard were just to the left and then I formed a cavalry column with the Reavers in the lead followed by the small Dragon Prince unit and then the large Dragon Prince unit. The Zombies anchored the Vampire left next to the Hexwraiths with the Archers right behind them with the Master Necromancer. The Corpse Cart was further behind them. The Mortis Engine then continued the line over with the large Skeleton block holding the center with the Vampire, Necromancer, and Wight King. The Morghasts were to their right and the Spirit Hosts on their right. The flank of the line had the Skeleton Warriors with the Cairn Wraith. Both Banshees were on their own on the front line. The Reavers vanguarded forwards to intercept the Skeletons on the flank.

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Initial Thoughts:
I'm not sure what build the Vampire Lord is, if it's a Blender then that's a problem. Outside of that I'm not actually very concerned about any of my opponent's units, I don't think any of them require special attention or care. The Morghasts are the only threat to the Dragon outside of a properly built Blender Lord. A horde could bog down the Dragon for a while but that would be only real issue. The Ethereal units could pose a problem as there are a lot of them. I have Soul Quench to deal with them as well as static combat res, but that's about it, so it could be a problem if I get into combat with the Ethereals and blocks, but if I engage the Ethereals on their own I think I can beat them. I'm not a big fan of my deployment, but the woods on my left and the drop of the Zombies on my right mean that my cavalry don't have great movement options, I'll need to try to break out early and gain operational freedom otherwise I could get pinned down.

High Elves Turn 1:
The line shifts a bit, the Spearmen move up and the Phoenix Guard wheel towards the right a bit. The Star Dragon moves left to engage the Morghasts and the Dragon Prince column advances but stays out of common charge range of the Morghasts.
Magic is 6-6 after 2 VC channels and sees an unfortunate 4-dice miscast of Miasma on the Morghasts. The Morghasts have their movement dropped by 3 but 2 Phoenix Guard are killed. The Vampires store 2 dispel dice in the Periapt.
The Archers plink a wound off the Mortis Engine, I mistakenly thought it worked like a Terrorgheist and would get worse with damage. Whoops.

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Vampire Counts Turn 1:
The Skeleton Warriors on the flank try to charge the Reavers but fail forwards. Otherwise the line advances with the Mortis Engine and the Hexwraiths moving forwards very aggressively.
Magic is 8-5 and a 3-dice Invocation miscasts killing 5 Archers but bringing in 9 Zombies and 4 Skeleton Warriors and healing the Mortis Engine.
The Skeleton Archers kill 1 High Elf Archer.

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High Elves Turn 2:
The forward Dragon Princes charge the flank of the Mortis Engine and the Star Dragon charges the Morghasts. The Spearmen then promptly fail their 6" charge towards the Hexwraiths. The Phoenix Guard stay put and the Archers move up to get clear fire lines.
Magic is a dismal 2-1 phase that puts Miasma on the Skeleton Horde to drop their movement by 3. The dispel dice is stored.
The High Elf Archers kill 2 Skeleton Archers.
The Prince wounds the Morghasts 3 times. However, we then promptly made a rules mistake, thinking that Killing Blow still worked against the rider of a monster. This was critical as the 6 attacks from the Morghasts rolled 3 Killing Blows and the Prince only managed to save 2 of them. He was therefore cut down. The Star Dragon then finished off the Morghasts, but the loss of my LD 10 Prince would have dire consequences. The Dragon Princes then killed the Mortis Engine. The resulting explosion killed 3 High Elf Archers, 4 Spearmen, 2 Dragon Princes from the bus, 1 Dragon Prince from the small unit, 1 Zombie, 1 wound on the Master Necromancer, and 1 wound on the Corpse Cart. We then made another rules mistake, as I didn't have my copy of the VC FAQ on me, thinking that the Mortis Engine explosion was mundane, therefore the two Banshees and the Hexwraiths escaped unharmed when they shouldn't have been.

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Vampire Counts Turn 2:
The Hexwraiths charge the Archers and the Zombies charge the small Dragon Princes. The Reavers are forced to flee by the charging Skeletons and their Cairn Wraith, but they escape. The Skeleton Horde also fails the charge on the Phoenix Guard.
Magic is 6-3 and puts Soulblight on the Phoenix Guard. Invocation goes off as well and raises 14 Zombies and restores all the Skeleton Archers and heals the Master Necromancer.
The Archers miss their shots.
The Hexwraiths kill 3 Archers. The Dragon Princes promptly fail their fear check and only kill 2 Zombies while horribly losing 2 of their own. They break and run but are not caught.

High Elves Turn 3:
The Spearmen charge the Banshee that moved right in front of them and the Dragon Princes do the same. The small Princes fail to rally and the Star Dragon moves to the flank of the Skeleton Horde. The Reavers rally and move up to continue interfering with the Cairn Wraith and his friends.
Magic is 9-7 and sees Withering scrolled. Soul Quench kills 5 Skeleton Warriors and Miasma is dispelled.
Dragon Fire sees 16 Skeleton Warriors burn.
The Spearmen fail their fear test against the Banshee and lose 1 elf but combat res kills the Banshee. The Archers take 2 casualties. The Dragon Princes kill their Banshee and overrun into the Spirit Hosts right behind the Banshee.

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Vampire Counts Turn 3:
The Cairn Wraith fails towards the Dragon Princes and the other Skeleton Warriors charge the Phoenix Guard. The Zombies turn to face the Spearmen.
Magic is 9-5 and sees Soulblight dispelled, Invocation cast, and Curse of Years scrolled.
The Skeleton Archers kill 2 Spearmen.
The High Elf Archers lose another 3 elves. The Spirit Hosts take 7 wounds. The Phoenix Guard then kill a deplorable 5 Skeletons and wound the Necromancer once, but the Vampires similarly roll badly and only 2 Phoenix Guard die and 2 more Skeletons crumble.

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High Elves Turn 4:
The Star Dragon charges the rear of the Skeleton Warriors and the Spearmen charge the Zombies. The Reavers move up to try to cover the Dragon Princes, but I fail to position them properly.
Magic sees Withering drop the Skeleton Warriors' toughness by 2.
The Dragon and Phoenix Guard kill the Necromancer and 15 Skeletons and the unit crumbles away into nothing. I'm not sure of High Elf casualties, it was 2-3 Phoenix Guard I think.
The Spearmen only kill 3 Zombies and lose 4 elves. Again 2 Archers die. The Dragon Princes wipe out the Spirit Hosts.

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Vampire Counts Turn 4:
The Skeletons make it past the poorly positioned Reavers and hit the Dragon Prince flank. The Corpse Cart moves to cover the Archers a bit.
Magic is 9-5 and sees Curse of Years on the Phoenix Guard dispelled. Invocation goes off again.
The Hexwraiths then cut down 7 Archers and the 1 survivor flees. The Spearmen kill 10 Zombies but lose 7 elves. The BSB then issues a challenge to the Skeleton unit champ to prevent most of the Skeleton unit from attacking the Dragon Princes, and he kills the champ, and one more Skeleton dies, but then the unthinkable happens. The Dragon Princes fail their rerollable LD7 check from the static CR and flee, with the BSB and unit Standard exploding.

High Elves Turn 5:
The Star Dragon and Phoenix Guard charge the Corpse Cart. The Dragon Princes complete their humiliation by failing their LD10 rally check and flee directly into the front arc of the Hexwraiths. The Reavers move to cover the rear of the Phoenix Guard.
I skipped the magic phase as I didn't think any spells would really help and be worth the possible miscast.
The Spearmen kill 5 Zombies at the cost of 3. The Phoenix Guard and Star Dragon kill the Corpse Cart and overrun into the bunker.

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Vampire Counts Turn 5:
The Hexwraiths charge and destroy the Dragon Princes.
Magic sees Curse of Years miscast on the Phoenix Guard which wounds the Mage and kills 4 Skeletons and 1 Phoenix Guard.
Combat sees the Reavers and Skeletons both fail to do any damage, but the Reavers flee and are caught. The Spearmen kill 3 Zombies and lose 4, breaking from combat. The Guard and Dragon wipe out the Master Necromancer's unit.

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High Elves Turn 6:
The Phoenix Guard and Star Dragon try to charge the Skeletons in the flank, but only the Dragon makes it in with another failed 6" charge.
The Dragon smashes 15 Skeletons.

Vampire Counts Turn 6:
The Zombies charge the flank of the Star Dragon.
The Dragon then suffers a crisis of identity and only kills 3 Skeletons and 2 Zombies. He holds in combat though.


High Elf Victory!

Thoughts:
That was one of my worst leadership games I've played, I failed far too many tests, I also had a remarkable inability to roll 2+ armor saves. Also, Zombies are definitively the most powerful unit in the Vampire Counts book, you heard it here first! I'm not sure how differently the game would have played if the Prince hadn't died on a rules mistake, and if the Hexwraiths and Banshees had actually taken damage from the Mortis Engine explosion. I had been hoping the Archers could beat the Hexwraiths with static CR, but unfortunately my opponent never had the bad round of combat I needed to win and force some crumbling which would then make it only more likely that they would have more bad combat phases. I wasn't too happy overall with my playing, the cavalry got stuck in the rear and I didn't have a good answer for the Zombies. If my opponent had brought a meaner Vampire Lord the Phoenix Guard combat could have gone much differently and might have swung the game. A Terrorgheist would also have dramatically improved my opponent's list as Terrorgheists are just mean. Overall it was a tough fight, and I wasn't sure I was going to pull it through. It was a fun game!


I'm now going to desperately continue painting Silver Helms. Might have a few very late nights coming up. I have a question on how to field them, do you suggest I run them 4x3 or 5 wide with 2 in the third rank? If I run them 4x3 I won't get any static combat res out of them, but they would be a bit easier to maneuver and fit monsters in beside them in combat. Also, to be fair, 5 wide doesn't get me much static combat res at all anyways, but a rank or two might always be useful. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:40 pm 
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The factions for Hockley have just been released:

High Elves: 7
Wood Elves: 5
Orcs and Goblins: 3
Warriors of Chaos: 3
Dwarves: 2
Ogre Kingdoms: 2
Dark Elves: 2
Empire: 2
Beastmen: 2
Host of the Eternity King: 2
Daemons of Chaos: 2
Legions of the Everchosen: 1
Undead Legions: 1
Glottkin: 1
Legions of Chaos: 1
Skaven: 1
Lizardmen: 1

The High Elves have it! That's a lot of High Elves and Wood Elves, which means I'll probably fight both High Elves and Wood Elves in my games. Wood Elves I'm concerned by the possibility of massed poisoned shots bringing down my monsters. The anti-armor arrows could also decimate my cavalry. Treemen might be an issue, their Treewhack is fantastic, so it depends on if I can tag team them with stuff to kill them before they get to attack. High Elves could be a bad matchup, Bolt Throwers threaten my monsters and cavalry, and the BotWD could be a real problem. I'm not sure if I'll run into another Star Dragon, they seem to be out of favor in the current meta if there really is one still. I'm happy about the low numbers of Empire, Skaven, and Dwarves, that hopefully means cannons won't show up much. Only one Lizardmen player is surprising and also a relief.

My first matchup, based on having similar comp scores, is against:
High Elves!

Yay. It will be a bloody fight. Having never faced High Elves, only played them, it'll be fun to see how it goes and to see what my opponent brings.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:36 pm 
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PG are solid but I feel that in the absence of Shield of Saphery or some such, spending those points in Rare might be better. I too was wondering about the Blender Lord, could have made a difference. I like the VC magic phase, Black Periapt is strong. The Mortis Engine was obviously a concern. I’m not familiar with Morghasts, clearly they were a threat here. More Hexwraiths would have been more of a worry but you have Phoenixes in your tournament list.

One thing I really like is how you redeploy your Flyers CR, can be very effective. I’m surprised about the Killing Blow thing, I know that a character on Monstrous Beast becomes MC and hence immune but I didn’t think that applied to Monster riders. Your opponent seemed to throw the Mortis Engine away almost. Again, good use of the Breath Weapon and double-teaming his main block. Bad luck with your BSB’s unit but it can happen. Terrorgheists are not that scary for most elf lists because of shot volume but yours is slightly different.

I’d consider two ranks of six for the Silver Helms, simply so more can fight. I used to run 20 Hagbane arrows and that wouldn’t be enough to deal with your Monsters. 40 maybe but comp and Trueflight has been the more popular choice. Waywatchers certainly are a problem for your knights but you have target saturation and really the Flyers are your main strength. RBT will cause you problems if you have trouble getting forward or if things go wrong and they can pick you off in the endgame. Not otherwise though, the Monsters are fast and tough. Yes I’d be surprised not to see World Dragon in your first game but consider throwing your Prince at it. None of the Star Dragon attacks are Magical and he’s Stubborn within 12” of it!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:05 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
PG are solid but I feel that in the absence of Shield of Saphery or some such, spending those points in Rare might be better. I too was wondering about the Blender Lord, could have made a difference. I like the VC magic phase, Black Periapt is strong. The Mortis Engine was obviously a concern. I’m not familiar with Morghasts, clearly they were a threat here. More Hexwraiths would have been more of a worry but you have Phoenixes in your tournament list.


I was hoping the Ring of Fury would pass for the Shield of Saphery, and it did actually give the PG their 3++ for the round of combat that the Skeleton Horde charged in. The VC magic phase was definitely very strong, I was quite surprised by how effective it was. I did notice the lack of magical attacks when my opponent started deploying, that does make me much happier that I've got the Phoenixes.

Morghasts are decently strong. They've got WS5, S5, T5, W4, A3, and carry Halberds. They've also got a 4+ armor save and hover so they are surprisingly fast. They cause Terror, having Killing Blow, and act as a VC BSB making themselves and all units with 12" crumble 1 less than normal. They are a Rare option that costs 90 points per model, minimum unit size is 2.

SpellArcher wrote:
One thing I really like is how you redeploy your Flyers CR, can be very effective. I’m surprised about the Killing Blow thing, I know that a character on Monstrous Beast becomes MC and hence immune but I didn’t think that applied to Monster riders. Your opponent seemed to throw the Mortis Engine away almost. Again, good use of the Breath Weapon and double-teaming his main block. Bad luck with your BSB’s unit but it can happen. Terrorgheists are not that scary for most elf lists because of shot volume but yours is slightly different.


Thanks! I was surprised about Killing Blow too, but apparently it doesn't work on characters riding MCs, Monsters, or Chariots according to the FAQ. The Mortis Engine I think was advanced too aggressively. My opponent said that when he's played it in the past he holds it back too far and then when it does die the resulting explosion kills a lot of his own models and doesn't hit very many enemies. He wasn't expecting me to kill it as quickly as I did, I know that. The last time I fought Terrorgheists was at the Sunderland event with my 2000 point list. They did extremely well and killed a lot of my army, but that was also partially because my opponent was using the Scream in combat on my turn as well, which obviously massively increases their danger. I didn't think it was legal but didn't know Vampires well enough that I wanted to challenge him as we'd already had a few rules debates, I only confirmed it after the game and my crushing defeat.

SpellArcher wrote:
I’d consider two ranks of six for the Silver Helms, simply so more can fight. I used to run 20 Hagbane arrows and that wouldn’t be enough to deal with your Monsters. 40 maybe but comp and Trueflight has been the more popular choice. Waywatchers certainly are a problem for your knights but you have target saturation and really the Flyers are your main strength. RBT will cause you problems if you have trouble getting forward or if things go wrong and they can pick you off in the endgame. Not otherwise though, the Monsters are fast and tough. Yes I’d be surprised not to see World Dragon in your first game but consider throwing your Prince at it. None of the Star Dragon attacks are Magical and he’s Stubborn within 12” of it!


Since they can fight in 3 ranks, the 2 ranks of 6 would only get 2 extra horses, right? I was thinking narrower in case I wanted to fit a monster alongside the Silver Helms, it might be easier with a smaller frontage. That comment about the BotWD made me laugh! I had completely forgotten that the Stubborn applies to enemy dragons as well! That would be a rather fun twist for my opponent. I know a recently popular trend for games around here is to bring a horde of Lothern Sea Guard with a BSB with the BotWD and possibly a High Magic Archmage in the unit. I'm not sure how effective I think that would be, I'm not personally a fan of the LSG, but of course the High Magic/BotWD combo is always dangerous. I'd need to single out the BSB or Archmage with attacks and try to kill them because as soon as one of them dies the unit's defenses rapidly collapse.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:05 pm 
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CaledorRises wrote:
The VC magic phase was definitely very strong, I was quite surprised by how effective it was.

He’s got six good levels of magic and two excellent Arcane Items, nasty.

CaledorRises wrote:
The last time I fought Terrorgheists was at the Sunderland event with my 2000 point list.

I played a guy named Tony Swallow a few years ago in Northampton. He brought a Blender Lord in Black Knights backed up with a Crypt Horror block. He explained that he’d normally use Terrorgheists instead but was expecting elves so left them at home. Monsters with almost no saves don’t tend to last long against massed BS 4.

CaledorRises wrote:
They did extremely well and killed a lot of my army, but that was also partially because my opponent was using the Scream in combat on my turn as well, which obviously massively increases their danger.

This can be very nasty but he has to be careful because they’re fragile in combat.

CaledorRises wrote:
Since they can fight in 3 ranks, the 2 ranks of 6 would only get 2 extra horses, right? I was thinking narrower in case I wanted to fit a monster alongside the Silver Helms, it might be easier with a smaller frontage.

My bad, two years since I rocked High Elves!

CaledorRises wrote:
I know a recently popular trend for games around here is to bring a horde of Lothern Sea Guard with a BSB with the BotWD and possibly a High Magic Archmage in the unit. I'm not sure how effective I think that would be

It might be quite hard to kill off. It’s Strength 3 though and High Magic doesn’t help with that. In my experience the scariest World Dragon units have high strength attacks to complement their near-immunity to lots of stuff. In order, Silver Helm buses, White Lions and Swordmasters are the best fits I believe. The Star Dragon though can handle them because he’ll just eat any characters one by one. Some danger of massed S6 attacks for example wearing him down but Thunderstomp and the Breath Weapon should do a number on Infantry.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:03 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I played a guy named Tony Swallow a few years ago in Northampton. He brought a Blender Lord in Black Knights backed up with a Crypt Horror block. He explained that he’d normally use Terrorgheists instead but was expecting elves so left them at home. Monsters with almost no saves don’t tend to last long against massed BS 4.


True, but Vampires can heal those monsters with a good magic phase. Plus my list isn't a normal High Elf list because I've got only the 23 Archers! Not that massed of firepower.

SpellArcher wrote:
This can be very nasty but he has to be careful because they’re fragile in combat.


What I meant was that I had charged him and he was using the scream both on his turn and my turn in the combat phase rather than just in his shooting phase. I don't think he was intentionally breaking the rule, he was talking about the 9th Age a lot during the game and I assume it must be something like that in the 9th Age, but it was devastating against me. Of course it didn't help that in that game I miscast Soul Quench on 2 dice, blew up 10 Swordmasters and lost my Archmage to the warp. That game just didn't go too well...

SpellArcher wrote:
My bad, two years since I rocked High Elves!


Anything in particular that stopped you playing them, or just wanted to focus on your Greenskins for a while?

SpellArcher wrote:
It might be quite hard to kill off. It’s Strength 3 though and High Magic doesn’t help with that. In my experience the scariest World Dragon units have high strength attacks to complement their near-immunity to lots of stuff. In order, Silver Helm buses, White Lions and Swordmasters are the best fits I believe. The Star Dragon though can handle them because he’ll just eat any characters one by one. Some danger of massed S6 attacks for example wearing him down but Thunderstomp and the Breath Weapon should do a number on Infantry.


Yeah, that's my thought too. The unit is tough to kill and I think people like it for the massed bow fire that it can produce, but at the end of the day it's just WS4 S3 in combat with a 5+ armor, they don't hit very hard if you can make it through the bows to get in. And of course my list comprised mostly of 2+ armor save and T6-7 models is uniquely built to fight against a unit like that. Though that said I have an astounding ability to fail at least 1 2+ armor save every time I roll the dice with no exceptions.


Unfortunately I couldn't get a game tonight prior to Triple Crown tomorrow, but the show will go on all the same! I will try to take as many pictures as possible and remember the games as best I can to write something half-decent for reports.
Also unfortunately I didn't manage to completely finish painting my Silver Helms, it was one unit too far. They are tabletop ready I think, just have to hope people don't look too closely and hope that it doesn't cost me too many painting points.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 8:46 pm 
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Hockley Game 1

Day 1 has concluded! I didn't get as many photos of all the games that I would have liked, and I didn't take any notes, so we shall see how good my memory is!

High Elves:
Prince mounted on Star Dragon w/ Star Lance, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Trickster's Shard
Mage Level 1 w/ Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow
Noble BSB mounted on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed w/ Dragon Armor, Dragonhelm, Ogre Blade, Shield
23x Archer w/ Musician
5x Ellyrian Reavers w/ Musician
12x Silver Helms FC w/ Shields
9x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
5x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix

High Elves:
Alarielle the Radiant
Handmaiden of the Everqueen
5x Silver Helms FC
40x Lothern Sea Guard FC
28x Phoenix Guard FC w/ Banner of rerolling LD
~23x Swordmasters of Hoeth FC w/ Banner of the World Dragon
3x Tiranoc Chariots
10x Sisters of Avelorn w/ Champion
10x Shadow Warriors w/ Champion

Magic:
Mage: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma

Alarielle: Soul Quench, Arcane Unforging, Fiery Convocation, Hand of Glory

Initial Thoughts:
I think my list is far stronger than my opponent's. They've not really got anything that can oppose my fliers, though the blocks of infantry can be problematic if they tie my units down for too long. The Swordmasters + Alarielle, who ran all High Magic, could be extremely hard to shift. It will all be about combo-charging and trying to destroy units.

Deployment:
I put my Silver Helms on my left flank as a shield, while the two Phoenixes deployed in the center. The Archers were off to the right of the Phoenixes set to be within range of the Lothern Sea Guard but outside of their range. The Dragon Princes were off to their right and the Reavers were right in front of the Dragon Princes. The Star Dragon deployed behind the Archers. Opposite me the Tiranoc Chariots were on the far right of my opponent's line with the Silver Helms on their left. The Swordmasters were in the center with the Phoenix Guard on their left. The Sea Guard were offset slightly behind on the left with the Sisters of Avelorn on a hill covering the end of the flank. The Shadow Warriors scouted forwards a bit.

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Turn 1 Enemy High Elves:
The line mostly slowly shifted forwards. The Chariots tried to line up for a charge on the Silver Helms and the Swordmasters pushed forwards relatively cautiously. Magic saw me stop Hand of Glory on the Lothern Sea Guard. I then allowed Fiery Convocation to go onto the Silver Helms trusting in the 3+ armor saves to keep them mostly safe. Instead, 4 died, they failed their panic check and fled off the board. The Sisters shot the Reavers off the board and I managed to continue my streak of always failing at least 1 2+ armor so that a Dragon Prince died.

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Turn 1 High Elves:
I charged the Shadow Warriors with my BSB unit (losing another Dragon Prince to the S&S). Elsewhere the line advanced to set up some Turn 2 charges and get the fliers into proper positions. Magic saw me put Melkoths on the Sea Guard for ballistic skill. Shooting killed a couple Sea Guard. In combat I lost yet another Dragon Prince but wiped out the Shadow Warriors and turned to face the rest of the action.

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Turn 2 Enemy High Elves:
This was a crucial movement turn, so of course I don't have a picture for it. :D The Phoenix Guard moved up to partially cover the Sea Guard and take some charges. The Swordmasters shifted forwards as well and the Silver Helms and Chariots tried to get relevant again now that my Silver Helms were gone. Magic saw some spells cast, the only significant one being Hand of Glory cancelling out my Melkoths. Shooting saw the Star Dragon and Prince both take some wounds.

Turn 2 High Elves:
The two Phoenixes and the Dragon Prince bus charged the Phoenix Guard, but my Star Dragon failed his 5" charge to get in. The small Dragon Princes charged the Sisters of Avelorn and the Archers wheeled to face the Silver Helms. Magic put Melkoths on the Sea Guard for BS again, but a miscast cost me my Wizard Level. Shooting killed a Silver Helm. Combat saw a large number of Phoenix Guard cut down ~10 or so. The rerollable LD standard was used up on the Fear test. Then, the unthinkable happened and the Phoenix Guard failed their Steadfast test. The Frosthearts ran them down, one hitting the Sea Guard behind. The Dragon Princes also pursued but I made sure to move the Phoenixes first so that the Dragon Princes wouldn't face the Swordmasters. The other Dragon Princes decimated the Sisters of Avelorn but failed to catch them in the pursuit.

(note for pictures, at this point we had to take Phoenixes off bases so they will be laying in various places on the table, their bases are in the correct places though)
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Turn 3 Enemy High Elves:
The Swordmasters charged the flank of the exposed Frostheart and the Silver Helms charged the Archers losing a man to S&S. The Sisters rallied. Magic didn't do anything interesting, but did boost the ward save of the Swordmasters. In combat the Swordmasters failed to hurt the Frostheart, but the Frostheart was also stopped by the World Dragon. He therefore broke, but was not caught. The Swordmasters pursued into the other Frostheart, but this time I was able to make up some combat resolution by killing Sea Guard. The Silver Helms and Archers both took some casualties.

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Turn 3 High Elves:
The Dragon Princes were positioned very inopportunely so that the Star Dragon couldn't make it into the Swordmasters. The Star Dragon then took up station on the flank of the Swordmasters and the Dragon Princes turned to face the Sea Guard while the other Frostheart rallied. The small Dragon Princes charged the Sisters of Avelorn. Combat saw the Archers kill off the Silver Helm and the Frostheart managed to kill enough Sea Guard to not lose combat by much so he held. The Sisters of Avelorn were killed and the hero was killed in the pursuit.

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Turn 4 Enemy High Elves:
The Tiranoc Chariots moved up to counter-charge the Star Dragon. Magic saw something get cast with a miscast that hurt the Phoenix and wounded Alarielle. Combat again had the Phoenix killing enough that it didn't lose combat by much and managed to stick around.

Turn 4 High Elves:
The Star Dragon hit the Swordmasters and the Frostheart and Dragon Princes hit the Sea Guard while the small Dragon Princes turned around and the Archers moved up to get a shot on the Chariots, but they didn't hurt the Chariots. Combat saw the OTS pay for itself as the Prince killed Alarielle and the Star Dragon unleashed its breath weapon to kill many Swordmasters. The Lothern Sea Guard were also decimated. The Sea Guard fled and were caught while the Swordmasters held.

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Turn 5 Enemy High Elves:
The Chariots charged the Star Dragon in the flank and their impact hits killed the Prince. Combat saw the Swordmasters take a lot more damage but they held. The Chariots did not, however, and fled.

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Turn 5 High Elves:
One Frostheart moved up to charge the Chariots if they rallied and the Dragon Princes did as well. Combat saw the Swordmasters wiped out and the Dragon turned to face the Swordmasters.

Turn 6 Enemy High Elves:
The Chariots rallied.

Turn 6 High Elves:
Two Frosthearts and a Star Dragon charged the Chariots and did damage, causing them flee and they were caught in the pursuit.

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20-0 Victory!

Thoughts:
This game went quite well. The failure of the Phoenix Guard leadership was huge and definitely game deciding. If they had held I would actually have been in a pretty bad position. That was the result of the Star Dragon failing his 5" charge, had he made it in I had expected to do so much damage with him, particularly due to the OTS, that I could break Steadfast. That may have been a bit overly ambitious, but it ended up working out. This game was not very balanced, we both had similar comp scores but my list was far far stronger. My opponent didn't have a single model that would wound the Frosthearts or the Star Dragon on anything lower than a 6+. This was a strong start to the tournament and I managed to accomplish my personal goal of winning at least 1 game at the event!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Hockley Game 2

Not related to the game, but this was a unit filler out of a spectacularly painted Dwarf list I thought I'd share.
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After winning game 1 with 20 points I was now boosted to the winners tables. This would mean I would now be up against some of the best lists and best players. My opponent brought a gorgeous 1980s Chaos list. This scenario had a hill in the center that could be controlled by a unit with Fortitude for 500 VPs.

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Warriors of Chaos:
Galrauch
Throgg the Troll King
Exalted Hero on Disc of Tzeentch w/ stuff
Chaos Chariot
5x Chaos Warhounds w/ Vanguard
5x Chaos Warhounds w/ Vanguard
5x Chaos Warhounds
8x Trolls
6x Trolls
Chimera w/ Regeneration and Flaming Breath
Chaos Beast (Monstrous Arcanum, I think this is what it was)
Toad Dragon

Magic:
Mage: Melkoth's
Galrauch: Bolt of Change, Infernal Gateway, the signature, and the spell stealing one

Initial Thoughts:
This is a very tough matchup and movement will be everything. If my flaming banner Dragon Princes make it into the Trolls on the charge with Frostheart support I think they can win, and I think the Star Dragon could beat the Toad Dragon, but again I would really want a charge and hopefully Frostheart support. Galrauch could be nasty, in combat I'd bet on the Star Dragon to win, if I get a Frostheart in I think I can take him out before he attacks.

Deployment:
My Archers went on the far left on a hill and the Silver Helms were to their right where they could possibly go left or center. Both Frosthearts and the Bus were in the center with the Star Dragon farther to the right behind the small Princes and the Reavers. My opponent had the Chariot and Chimera and Chaos Beast on his right facing my Archers with the Toad Dragon to their left mirroring my Silver Helms in being able to go left or right. The Trolls and Galrauch had the center with the Warhounds flanking the heavy center. My opponent won the Vanguard roll so he pushed dogs forwards essentially halting my Vanguarding.

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Turn 1 High Elves:
The small Princes charged the Warhounds on my right and the Reavers moved right in front of the other Warhounds. The rest of the line slightly advanced forwards getting ready to combo charge things. Magic was skipped due to an unfavorable winds roll and shooting injured the Chariot slightly. Combat saw the Warhounds wiped out and the Dragon Princes reform to face the center.

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Turn 1 Warriors of Chaos:
Once again my ability to not take pictures of an important movement phase shows itself. The Chaos right flank advanced with the Toad Dragon surprisingly heading that way. The center saw the Trolls actually fall back a bit while more Warhounds moved up in front of the Dragon Princes. We then spent about 15 minutes carefully measuring charge arcs with a laser and template and Galrauch managed to place himself so that he was would of the charge arc of my Star Dragon, Frostheart, and Dragon Princes. Magic saw not much happen with a low roll of power dice, I think a Dragon Princes died. Shooting then had Galrauch unleash his breath of change. This killed 2 Dragon Princes and much more importantly killed my Prince.

Turn 2 High Elves:
I decided to write off the Archers, moving the Mage out of the unit, and fell back with the Silver Helms as they were hopelessly outmatched. The Reavers charged the Warhounds as did the Dragon Princes. I then got the Frosthearts in position to charge anything in the center of the board to encircle the Trolls. The Dragon Prince bus moved out of Galrauch's charge arc onto the hill and the Star Dragon shifted to support the Frosthearts. Magic put Melkoths on the Toad Dragon dropping all stats by 3. Shooting was ineffectual. Combat had the Dragon Princes kill their hound unit while the Reavers only killed 4 and the survivor held.

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Turn 2 Warriors of Chaos:
The Trolls surprised me with a 10" charge hitting the Dragon Princes on the hill. The other Trolls with Throgg failed forwards. Galrauch turned to face the Star Dragon. The Chimera and Chariot charged the Archers who were forced to flee. The Chimera caught them and killed them. Magic saw a large phase go off. The Bolt of Change was cast on the Star Dragon, I decided to allow it as it could be a bad strength roll and it was only D3 wounds, I was more worried about Infernal Gateway. He rolled a 1 so it was only S5! Then it wounded. Then it rolled a 1 for wounds! I then just had to pass a toughness test and I would get Regen 6+! I failed the toughness test and instead took D3 wounds, which was a 3. This went very poorly. Then, things got worse. Infernal Gateway miscast on the Star Dragon and with a roll of 8 for Strength and 7 hits, the Star Dragon was killed. Combat saw the Reavers kill their Hound and the Trolls lost 2 of their number, but the vomit attacks killed 4 Dragon Princes.

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Turn 3 High Elves:
The Silver Helms were now boxed in with no good moves. The Chimera was out of arc and they couldn't move to a decent place so they decided to do the honorable thing and charge the Toad Dragon. The Reavers moved to block the Chaos Beast and the Frosthearts both hit Throgg's unit while the Dragon Princes turned around. Combat ensued and the BSB unit managed to hurt the Trolls a bit more but lost a Prince and took a wound on the Noble. The Frosthearts then failed dismally and only wounded the Trolls once while taking damage from Throgg. The Silver Helms utterly failed to touch the Toad Dragon who killed many of their number. The survivors fled.

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Turn 3 Warriors of Chaos:
The BSB charged the Noble in the rear and the Toad Dragon chased the Silver Helms off the board. The Chaos Beast forced the Reavers to flee and tried to hit the Frostheart in the rear but failed the charge. Magic killed off all the Reavers. Combat saw the Noble and last Dragon Prince fall. In the other combat I wounded Throgg once but that was it. Throgg killed one Frostheart and the other fled.

Turn 4 High Elves:
The Mage moved out of charge arcs. The Dragon Princes retreated to conserve points as the Frostheart failed to rally.

Turn 4 Warriors of Chaos:
The Trolls charged the fleeing Frostheart forcing it off the board. Magic didn't do anything.

My opponent then graciously decided not to go for the tabling and we called the game there.

0-20 Defeat.

Thoughts:
That game was brutal. The game deciding moment was when Galrauch charged straight ahead and evaded all my charge arcs. I didn't think that was possible, which was entirely my mistake. It did take us about 15 minutes to carefully position him, but at the end of it the game was lost as I'd never catch Galrauch at that point. Losing the Star Dragon in one magic phase was devastating as well and I didn't expect it at all and that combined with the Dragon Princes on the hill getting charged definitively decided the game. My opponent handily outplayed me here and his victory was well deserved! The sting of defeat was lessened by playing against such a wonderfully painted army as well!


Last edited by CaledorRises on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Hockley Game 3

With an even 20 points I was solidly in the middle of the pack and would face an Ogre list next hoping to redeem my army after a crushing second game.

Ogre Kingdoms:
Slaughtermaster Level 4 w/ Talisman of Preservation, maybe other stuff
Bruiser BSB w/ stuff
Firebelly Level 1 w/ stuff
7x Ironguts FC
6x Ironguts FC
4x Mournfang w/ Musician, Standard, Dragonhide Banner
4x Mournfang w/ Musician, Standard
Ironblaster
6x Leadbelchers
Sabretusk

Magic:
Mage: Melkoths
Firebelly: Fireball
Slaughtermaster: Spinemarrow, Toothcracker, Trollguts, Brainburster

Initial Thoughts:
The cannon is my only real concern. He's got a lot of high strength attacks but the units aren't too big so I think I can take them down one by one. My plan is to try and get into combat as soon as possible and multi-charge his units to break through them all.

Deployment:
My Silver Helms again refused my left flank with one Frostheart in the center with the Reavers. The Dragon Prince bus and the Archers also held the center with the other Frostheart and Star Dragon hiding behind a rock on my right. The other Dragon Princes were on my far right. Opposite me the Ogre line had Mournfang on each flank and the Ironguts in the center with the Leadbelchers and Ironblaster behind.

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Turn 1 High Elves:
I figured I couldn't hold back as I would need to get combat as soon as possible so one Frostheart and the Star Dragon pushed up my right very fast with the small Dragon Princes. I had a Frostheart behind the small Dragon Princes hoping the Mournfang might charge, break through the Princes and hit the Frostheart as my second Frostheart would then flank the Mournfang. The Reavers moved to redirect the Ironguts and the Silver Helms and Dragon Princes shifted. Magic dropped Mournfang movement by 1, and shooting did nothing.

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Turn 1 Ogre Kingdoms:
The Mournfang indeed tried to charge the Dragon Princes but failed forwards a bit. Elsewhere the Ogre line advanced. Magic put Spinemarrow on the Mournfang and killed 2 Dragon Princes and 3 Silver Helms. Shooting then had a laser-beam cannon kill the Prince and wound the Star Dragon for 3.

Turn 2 High Elves:
I was a bit on the back foot now, but the Silver Helms charged the Mournfang, the small Dragon Princes charged the other Mournfang, and the Star Dragon hit the Mournfang as well. Critically the Frostheart failed to join the charge on the Mournfang. The Reavers moved to block the Ironguts and the Dragon Princes advanced. Magic was uneventful as was shooting. Combat saw the Silver Helms win combat killing a Mournfang at the loss of 1, but my decision to run them 4x3 came back to haunt me as the steadfast Mournfang held. Elsewhere the Star Dragon and Dragon Princes missed wiping out the Mournfang by 1 wound which, with Spinemarrow up, meant they held. The Star Dragon then needed a 6" overrun to get safely into the Leadbelchers. Instead he moved up 3.

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Turn 2 Ogre Kingdoms:
The Ironguts charged the Reavers and the rest of the army formed a semi-circle to catch anything that broke through the Mournfang. Magic put Regen on the Ironguts. Shooting then had the cannon kill the Star Dragon. In combat the Reavers died and rubber lance syndrome saw the Silver Helms fail to wound the Mournfang. They were then wiped out in combat and the pursuit. The other Mournfang died to the Dragon Princes.

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Turn 3 High Elves:
In an attempt to turn things around the small Dragon Princes charged the Ironblaster. The Dragon Prince bus and both Frosthearts then hit the Ironguts. Magic saw nothing happen, while shooting killed 2 Leadbelchers. Combat saw 12 wounds done to the Ogres, but critically 4 Dragon Princes died. This was just enough to drop me below a rank and the Steadfast Ogres held. The Ironblaster also took only 1 wound and held.

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Turn 3 Ogre Kingdoms:
The Mournfang charged and wiped out the Archers while other Ironguts and the Leadbelchers charged the Frostheart on the flank. The Sabretusk charged the Dragon Princes in the flank to save the Ironblaster. Magic put Stubborn on the Irongut unit and both sides took damage but no one broke. One Frostheart was taken out of combat by Ironguts dying. The Dragon Princes took a casualty and wounded the Sabretusk.

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Game Remainder:
We played all the way to the end of Turn 6 but I stopped taking pictures because there was very little in the way of movement and action as the fight in the center absorbed everything. In the end I managed to kill off the entirety of the Irongut unit I had initially charged by due to the Ogre lore attribute the Slaughtermaster kept healing himself and didn't die. Both Frosthearts and the Dragon Princes were all killed. The Leadbelchers took some damage but not much. The Mournfang did join in the fight as well. My Dragon Princes managed to kill the Sabretusk and the Ironblaster fled off the board but the last remaining Dragon Prince was killed at the end of Turn 6 by a magic missile.

1-19 Defeat.

Thoughts:
This game can best be described as the game where nothing went right. I didn't pass a single ward save through the entire game. The Star Dragon failing his 6" overrun to get out of cannon danger was massive as the loss of him cut my chances of victory by a lot. The Silver Helm formation was completely wrong for this game and I that was a tactical mistake on my part, I hadn't considered the possibility of something like this happening and that mistake cost me a lot as that unit of Mournfang would go on to kill my Archers and engage the last Frostheart, though they didn't get the honor of killing it as that went to the Ogre BSB. Had the Frostheart made it in against the Mournfang turn 1 I think I could have killed them all and that would have had the Dragon Princes overrun possibly into the Ironblaster, another possibly game changing moment. Had only 3 Dragon Princes died instead of 4 the Ironguts on the hill wouldn't have been steadfast and even then I think I could have pulled out a victory as that would have killed the Level 4. Instead it all went horribly wrong. I have to say I was very disappointed with my performance this game, I thought I had out-deployed my opponent and I thought my Turn 1 positioning was very good, but then I got hit with a massive defeat.



Day 1 Thoughts:
I was a bit disappointed with Day 1. I accomplished my personal Tournament Goal of winning 1 game, but I really feel that Game 3 was a massive missed opportunity to make some points. Instead I'm going into day 2 with only 21 points. Hopefully I'll make up for it tomorrow and end up somewhere in the mid-field at the end of the event. Next game I will be up against a Tomb Kings army running Undead Legions, but I'm told it's all Tomb Kings except for some Morghasts. It's a Khalida list so we will see how my monsters do against massed poisoned arrows.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 10:19 pm 
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Yes CR, 23 shots is not typical for an elf list so I can see Terrorgheists being an issue. Screaming in your turn was naughty though! I gave the High Elves a rest because I found I really needed the creativity I get from starting a new army.

So we got the LSG Horde. Really I think Shadow magic is a better complement for this. Your opponent’s list looks nice enough but no BSB and a chronic lack of Strength 6 bode ill, especially against your Monsters. Agree completely, +2 match-up for you.

I really like the boat! The early Convocation was unfortunate but hey, support unit. Again, the PG running was unlucky but this is why we bring a BSB! Crucially that Phoenix was straight into the Sea Guard which set you up to hold and then destroy the Swordmasters. Good job!

You played Luke!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:24 am 
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That’s a very impressive Dwarf filler! I have to say your Dragon is a bit of a beast CR. So a Throgg list (but not the full Troll Horde!) and Luke’s got various nasty Flyers and no Infantry, really quite powerful. +1 match-up to him I feel.

So he loaded up the right but the centre was where the action was. Breath of Change is really quite unpleasant. 10” charges are a thing, unlucky though it was. Again, unlucky to lose the Star Dragon but when it works, Tzeentch magic can go bananas. That’s a worry for me CR because most strong lists are good at two phases of the game. Yours is only good at one. Either four spells or some RBT might have helped here.

I thought the Ogre list would miss that second Ironblaster. I’m also suspicious of splitting the Gutstar. Still, the list is solid, even match-up maybe? As you say, small details kind of messed up your attack. Very unlucky to lose the Star Dragon of course. Once the grind started, it began to turn ugly. I’m really not convinced by that Silver Helm unit.

The Khalida unit is dangerous but it’s a bit static so I’m hopeful. Well done on posting so much mid-tournament! Hopefully your luck will turn.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:34 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I really like the boat! The early Convocation was unfortunate but hey, support unit. Again, the PG running was unlucky but this is why we bring a BSB! Crucially that Phoenix was straight into the Sea Guard which set you up to hold and then destroy the Swordmasters. Good job!


The boat was pretty cool, it's a terrain piece I've liked a lot but wasn't sure how it would look on a normal table that wasn't next to the ocean. It actually works well, I may need to get one!

Thank you!

SpellArcher wrote:
You played Luke!


I did! He was a very polite and friendly guy, we had a great game despite my massive defeat!

SpellArcher wrote:
That’s a very impressive Dwarf filler!


He would go on to win best painted for the Dwarf army. He also placed I think 3rd in the tournament as a whole with a list comped at +3 and no duplicates.

SpellArcher wrote:
So he loaded up the right but the centre was where the action was. Breath of Change is really quite unpleasant. 10” charges are a thing, unlucky though it was. Again, unlucky to lose the Star Dragon but when it works, Tzeentch magic can go bananas. That’s a worry for me CR because most strong lists are good at two phases of the game. Yours is only good at one. Either four spells or some RBT might have helped here.


I was more hoping that an opponent might not want to declare a 10" charge because the odds are low and failing it would leave the unit dangerously exposed. Unfortunately my opponent took the risk and it paid off in a big way. I was surprised at how effective Tzeentch magic was, I've always thought of it as a bit too random for my taste, but it seems that it's not really as random as I had thought. I also thought for my list that the two phases I'd be strong in were movement and combat seeing as my list was mostly cavalry and fliers. Unfortunately I got outmaneuvered turn 1 with Galrauch making a move I'd not really thought possible and it went downhill from there.

SpellArcher wrote:
I thought the Ogre list would miss that second Ironblaster. I’m also suspicious of splitting the Gutstar. Still, the list is solid, even match-up maybe? As you say, small details kind of messed up your attack. Very unlucky to lose the Star Dragon of course. Once the grind started, it began to turn ugly. I’m really not convinced by that Silver Helm unit.


I was hoping the one cannon could be avoided as well. Unfortunately events transpired against me. Splitting the Gutstar again I thought would go in my favor as long as I could break steadfast on a unit that I charged. Both of my charges failed in accomplishing that, one because of a poor choice in my formation and one because of some bad luck. The grinds were then fights that I couldn't win. I'm also not convinced by the Silver Helms much, they performed a bit better later in the event, but I need to think about them. I'll try to write up the other two games tomorrow as well as a post-tournament evaluation.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Hockley Game 4

Having lost my past two games quite badly I was booted down to the lower tables where I'd be facing a Tomb Kings list that was being run as Undead Legions. This scenario was Blood and Glory but instead of winning the game by breaking your opponent you score 500 VPs.

Undead Legions:
High Queen Khalida
Heirophant Level 4
Necromancer Level 1
Tomb Prince
50x Skeleton Archers FC
6x Chariots
18x Tomb Guard FC
Necrosphinx
3x Morghast Harbingers (AHW instead of Halberds and -1 armor save over the Archai variant)
Tomb Scorpion
Casket of Souls
Screaming Skull Catapult

Magic:
Mage: Melkoths
Necromancer: Invocation
Heirophant: Dangerous Terrain, Double Attacks, 5+ Ward, Killing Blow

Initial Thoughts:
He's got powerful magic, it will be important to prioritize which spells I've got to stop and which to let through. The Necrosphinx is hard to kill and the Heroic Killing Blow could be a real threat, it's unreliable against monsters because its other attacks are only S5, but I might not want to risk it. The Archer unit can bring death down upon me, so I need to engage it as quickly as possible. The Catapult is the single biggest threat to my Star Dragon, so I need to kill it quickly or get in combat, preferably both to avoid a repeat of the Ogre game. I'm not concerned about the Tomb Guard, my cavalry could take some casualties from killing blow, but the unit is small enough that on a good charge it could be mostly wiped out. The Chariots are only dangerous if they charge, otherwise they are easy to handle.

Deployment:
I put both Phoenixes on my left hiding a bit behind the tower there to make a catapult shot more difficult. My Star Dragon deployed to the right of this in the open, but I figured that was a necessary risk to get the full 20" move immediately to Breath Weapon the Archers and get into the minimum range of the catapult. The Dragon Prince bus was to the right of the Star Dragon with the Archers in the dead center. I had the Silver Helms to their right in a new 6x2 formation and the small Princes on the far right. The Reavers were in front of the Silver Helms and vanguarded forwards a bit. My opponent put the Chariots on his far left with Khalida's unit formed 25x2 in the center well back from the deployment line. The Catapult and Casket were on the table edge. The Sphinx and the Tomb Guard held the right flank. The Morghasts were in the center ready to cover Khalida's unit if need be.

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Tomb Kings Turn 1:
The Necrosphinx advanced very aggressively trying to tempt my Frostheart into a combat. The Tomb Guard shifted towards the center just a bit. The Chariots declined to attempt the charge as it was about a 10" charge or so and he feared the counter charge. Magic saw the Dangerous Terrain spell go on the Dragon Princes and the 5+ ward go off on the Archer unit. I dispelled the double shots. Shooting tried to hit the Archers with the catapult but the shot missed. Khalida's unit then decimated the Archers killing about 2/3 of them.

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High Elves Turn 1:
The Frostheart Phoenix on my left decided to ignore the Necrosphinx and continue with his initial plan and flew up behind the flank of the Tomb Guard, taking a wound from the forest. The other Frostheart shifted to the right to either deal with the Chariots or support an attack on Khalida's unit. The Star Dragon rushed full speed towards Khalida's unit. The Dragon Prince bus moved forwards taking 2 casualties and the Silver Helms wheeled towards the left to engage Khalida as well. The Reavers managed to scoot behind the charge arc of the Chariots and the small Princes held station. Magic critically tossed Miasma on Khalida's unit dropping their BS by 3 down to 1. Shooting was ineffectual, the breath weapon only killed ~4 Archers.

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Tomb Kings Turn 2:
The Necrosphinx advanced around the tower to get relevant again. The Tomb Guard turned to face the Frostheart thinking that they were its target. The Morghasts elected not to charge the Star Dragon and instead hit the Silver Helms. The Chariots held their position. Magic again put the 5+ ward on the Archers, I think a few other spells went off but nothing important. Shooting saw the Catapult land a direct hit on the back of the Dragon that had failed to get into the minimum range of the Catapult, but the shot failed to wound. The Archers I think wounded the Prince once and the Dragon once. Combat saw the Morghasts fail to kill any Silver Helms after a few good armor saves.

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High Elves Turn 2:
The Archers turned to face the Sphinx. The Dragon Princes hit the Morghast flank and the Frostheart hit the Catapult. The Star Dragon went into Khalida's unit. The second Frostheart failed to join the Frostheart against Khalida and the Reavers failed their charge on the Casket. Magic saw nothing happen and I had no shooting due to the lack of a musician. The Dragon Princes and Silver Helms destroyed the Morghasts and the Silver Helms reformed into a Bretonnian formation facing the Sphinx to allow the more important Dragon Princes to overrun the target. The Frostheart killed the catapult and reformed to face Khalida's unit. Confusingly my opponent then challenged my Star Dragon with Khalida, I really don't know why, but the result was Khalida's death.

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Tomb Kings Turn 3:
The Sphinx charged the Silver Helms, though the Archers would have been an easier mark I believe he wasn't certain he could break Steadfast and was thinking the Silver Helms would be more of a threat later. The Tomb Guard reformed to face Khalida's unit. The Chariots backed up a bit to cover the Casket and to not get hit in the flank by the Dragon Princes. The Tomb Scorpion popped up behind the small Princes. Magic saw the 5+ ward go up again but nothing else significant. Shooting was ineffectual. Combat saw the Dragon kill a few more Skeletons and them reform deep. After some outstanding rolling from my opponent my Prince was also killed by the Archers. The Sphinx took some damage and only caused 1-2 wounds so the Silver Helms held and reformed to have ranks.

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High Elves Turn 3:
Both Frosthearts joined the Dragon against Khalida's block. The Dragon Princes charged the Chariots and the Reavers moved behind the Chariots. The small Princes advanced to get away from the Scorpion. The Archers turned to face the Scorpion. Magic did nothing. Combat saw some very disappointing rolls on my part not wiping out the Skeleton Archers, but the Sphinx took another wound and only caused 1. The Dragon Princes wiped out the Chariots and reformed towards the center.

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Tomb Kings Turn 4:
The Tomb Guard charged the rear of the Frostheart and the Tomb Scorpion charged the Dragon Princes who fled and escaped. Magic healed the Skeleton units some. Combat saw the Sphinx killed by the Silver Helms who reformed towards the Tomb Guard. The three monsters then decimated the Skeleton Archers, combat resolution destroying them. The Tomb Guard also suffered heavy losses from the combat result.

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High Elves Turn 4:
The Silver Helms charged the Tomb Guard, the Reavers and second Frostheart charged the Casket and the small Princes rallied. Magic slowed the Scorpion down. Combat killed the Casket and the Tomb Guard all.

We ended the game there with the Tomb Kings only having the Scorpion left and my army intact except for the loss of my Prince.

20-0 Victory!

Thoughts:
This game played out very well to the strengths of my list. I managed to get into combat with Khalida very quickly and outmaneuvered the Tomb Guard. I also stuck to my early plan of killing the Catapult as quickly as possible which was very helpful. I think my opponent made several mistakes. The Morghasts were very unlucky to not hurt the Silver Helms but they were also very unlikely to break the Silver Helms meaning that the Dragon Princes were almost inevitably going to counter charge and destroy them. My opponent also allowed one unit of 5 Dragon Princes to hold his Chariots in place most of the game on fear that the Dragon Princes would charge and beat the Chariots. I think this was probably a mistake as the Dragon Princes are good on the charge but there are only 5 of them. I also very effectively shut down my opponent's magic phase despite him getting 9+ dice every phase. I think there were a few causes of this, but the most significant was that I believe my opponent rolled ~1 dice to many on most spell attempts, so that he couldn't overwhelm me with a lot of spells. He also was hampered by very clearly having 1 spell he wanted to get through, which was therefore always what I made sure he never cast. This is something he could have taken advantage of, knowing I was saving my dice to stop the double attack spell.


Last edited by CaledorRises on Wed May 15, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Hockley Game 5

Going in to Game 5 I had recovered some points and was sitting mid-field, a close game here or a victory would mean that I finish a bit above the halfway mark as I was expecting full painting and sportsmanship points. I was up against Daemons of Chaos, an army I've never faced before and whose units are mostly unfamiliar to me. My opponent game me a brief rundown of the units and their stats, but it was a good amount of new information to remember in the pressure of a game.

Daemons of Chaos:
Epidemius
Nurgle Herald BSB on a palanquin w/ stuff
~40x Plaguebearers FC
4x Beasts of Nurgle
4x Beasts of Nurgle
5x Beasts of Nurgle
4x Nurgle Flies FC
3x Nurgle Flies FC
12x Bloodletters FC
Skullcannon

Magic:
Mage: Melkoths

Initial Thoughts:
I know the Beasts of Nurgle by reputation only, and that's one of them being very good and quite tough to kill. I've got no idea on the Flies, I've never heard of them, so I decided to treat them as a moderate-strength flier unit. The Bloodletters are clearly there to provide Fortitude for the Hill Grab and Blood and Glory missions and are not a threat. The Skullcannon is a serious threat to my fliers, I'll need to avoid it as best I can. The Nurgle horde I believed would act like a typical horde, not too much of a threat as they are just basic infantry, my monsters can handle them. Crucially, I misunderstood the Epidemius tally, I thought the stat buffs only applied to him, not the whole army. Furthermore, though I'm confident my opponent told me, it slipped out of my mind that the Beasts of Nurgle and the big bugs have poisoned attacks.

Deployment:
I put the small Dragon Princes on my extreme left flank to hopefully sweep behind it to get the cannon and to draw enemy drops away from where my main effort was going to be. The Dragon Prince bus and Archers held the center-right with my Star Dragon right behind. One Frostheart was in the dead center behind a large rock as I didn't know at the time where the enemy cannon was. My other Frostheart and the Silver Helms took my far right behind a building we decided to treat as impassible and infinitely tall. The Reavers vanguarded forwards next to the rock. My opponent put the Skullcannon on his far right directly in front of the small Princes and trying to get LOS to my monsters when they advanced. The Bloodletters and the small Fly unit held the flank with it with the center holding two units of Beasts of Nurgle. My opponent's left flank had the other Beasts in front of the Horde with the other Flies on the far left.

Image
Image
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High Elves Turn 1:
I advanced the Frostheart and Star Dragon in the center to be behind the large rock so that they were impossible to shoot with the Skullcannon. The small Princes advanced forwards against the Skullcannon making sure to stay well out of the average charge range of the Bloodletters. The Silver Helms and Frostheart advanced to flank any Daemonic advance in the center. The Dragon Prince bus advanced a bit as well. Magic and shooting were ineffectual.

Image

Daemons of Chaos Turn 1:
The Skullcannon charged the Dragon Princes, something that was a mistake on my part for allowing, I had been treating the Skullcannon like a normal cannon and not like a murder chariot. The Beasts of Nurgle in the center then charged the Reavers and nailed their 10" charge, a charge I hadn't been expecting them to attempt. The rest of the Nurgle right flank advanced forwards. The other Beasts pushed aggressively into the center and the large Fly unit charged the Frostheart. Combat saw the Dragon Princes wiped out by the Skullcannon. The Frostheart was wounded once and killed a Fly, but then devastatingly failed it's LD test and ran off the board. The Reavers were destroyed and the overrun took the Beasts into the Frostheart and the Star Dragon both.

Image

High Elves Turn 2:
Turn 1 had knocked me on to the back foot so I needed to do something decisive. The Silver Helms charged the flank of the forward Beasts of Nurgle and the Dragon Prince bus joined in the fight with the Frostheart and the Star Dragon. I was hoping that a Frostheart, Dragon Princes on the charge, and a Star Dragon would take down the Beasts of Nurgle and the overrun would send the Dragon Princes in to support the Silver Helms. Magic hit the Beasts of Nurgle to reduce their WS to make the combat even more in my favor. Combat, however, saw things not turn out as planned. The main combat killed 3/5 Beasts, but that was all. This left the Silver Helms alone, and while they killed one Beast it wasn't enough. The Star Dragon's breath weapon unfortunately did no wounds after only a 4 was rolled and all of my opponent's ward saves were passed (even with the reroll from OTS!).

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Daemons of Chaos Turn 2:
The second unit of Beasts of Nurgle moved up to take the place of the first unit once they died. The small Fly unit charged the flank of the Frostheart and the Skull Cannon moved around the rear of my army. Combat saw the Silver Helms take losses and do very little as Epidemius had now boosted toughness values. The main combat saw one Beast of Nurgle killed and a Fly injured, but then disaster struck when a double-1 was rolled resurrecting the dead Beast of Nurgle.

High Elves Turn 3:
In need to do something to break my troops out of the grind the Archers charged the flank of the Beasts engaged with the beleaguered Silver Helms. In combat the Star Dragon and Dragon Princes killed off the last of the large Beast of Nurgle unit and the Archers and Silver Helms injured the other unit but not nearly enough.

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Daemons of Chaos Turn 3:
The second wave of Beasts of Nurgle hit the Dragon Princes and the Star Dragon while the Plaguebearers hit the Archers. The other Flies and the Skullcannon both tried to charge into combats but failed. Combat saw two Beasts of Nurgle killed by the Star Dragon and Dragon Princes, and one Beast from the other group. The Silver Helms were decimated to one survivor who fled and the Archers also fled after suffering heavy losses.

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High Elves Turn 4:
The Archers rallied. Magic slowed the Skullcannon to prevent a charge on the Star Dragon. In the main combat unfortunately no damage was done to the Beasts of Nurgle.

Image

Rest of Game:
I'm a bit unclear on the exact timing of the next steps so I'll sum them up. The Frostheart engaged with the Flies did finally break from combat and run. The Archers were destroyed by the Nurgle BSB charging out of the unit. The Flies charged the flank of the Dragon Princes. The Skullcannon charged the rear of the Star Dragon. After a long battle the Star Dragon was killed, but it took one more Beast of Nurgle and the Skullcannon with it. The Dragon Princes were finally destroyed as well, and the Nurgle BSB charged and killed the rallied Frostheart.

Image

0-20 Defeat.

Thoughts:
I killed 11/13 Beasts of Nurgle but it wasn't enough! My opponent told me he didn't think I made any real errors, but I disagree. I believe many of the errors were down to inexperience against the Daemons of Chaos army list. I didn't realize how mean a Skullcannon was on the charge and therefore left my Dragon Princes too close to it Turn 1. My positioning of the Frostheart on the flank was also risky. I considered two main possibilities, the first was that my opponent wouldn't charge because of the obvious counter-charge from the Silver Helms. The second was that my opponent would charge and I'd get the counter-charge. I didn't anticipate the defeat of the Frostheart, and that was largely because I forgot about Poison, I thought the Frostheart would be mostly immune to my opponent's attacks. Instead, I lost a Frostheart much too early. In the center I severely underestimated Beasts of Nurgle. The Reavers I thought were likely to not be charged, and I chose not to flee them because I felt that even if they were charged the overrun would take the beasts into my Frostheart and Star Dragon, with possible counter-charge from the Dragon Prince bus if need be. I felt that would be plenty to defeat the Beasts of Nurgle quickly. I was very mistaken and this central combat kept my 3 most powerful units locked down the entire game which allowed them to be encircled and eventually defeated. In retrospect I should have fled the Reavers, the Beasts would have been too far away from my Dragon and Phoenix to redirect in to them and I would have had the all-critical freedom of movement needed to beat my enemy's army. Grinds were something I couldn't allow to happen, and my opponent was surprised when I charged the Archers in, but I felt it was needed because to have any change I absolutely had to break out of the grinds. Unfortunately the Archers weren't enough to do this.


Last edited by CaledorRises on Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Hockley Post-Tournament Thoughts

I placed 23/38 in the end. This was honestly a bit better than I had expected, but worse than I had hoped. My army was decisively defeated in 3 games and was decisively victorious in 2 games. This makes me think that the army list is quite unforgiving and not hugely flexible. Small mistakes and small bits of bad luck were very quick to conspire and stack up to cost me games. I have no doubt that the list could be more dangerous in the hands of a better player, but for now I will be rethinking it a bit to make it more reliable and less hit-or-miss. For now that will be limited to models I currently have painted as I'm burned out of painting Fantasy, and High Elves in particular, for a least a little while. The Star Dragon works well in combat, but has serious vulnerabilities to cannons, which are not drawn off at all by the Frosthearts as I had hoped a bit, and is also vulnerable to powerful magic. The Frosthearts work as expected and do essentially what I want them to do, their biggest weakness is static combat resolution and fighting things that they cannot stomp. The Dragon Princes fight as I have come to expect them to fight, they hit hard but cannot grind at all. The Silver Helms are a bit out of place, they lack serious hitting power and I am a bit unsure what to do about them. The Archers are a decent bunker but don't manage to accomplish much is most of my games. My magic is very weak and only really works when I get a low magic-phase roll and can throw a lot of dice at a spell. The scroll allows me to shut down one enemy magic phase relatively well, but I need to be able to stop more and I need to have a more powerful offensive magic phase. I'm not certain yet if I'll make it to Worcester, but if I do I'll be bringing a slightly revised list to try and make it a bit more reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:34 pm 
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I’m seriously impressed that Dwarf army won Best Painted ahead of Luke’s WoC. Must have been stunning! I’ve had risky 10” charges upset me too in the past. Gateway in particular is a very strong spell and not too hard to cast.

The big strength apart from Khalida is the Casket I think. The extra Power Dice obviously but also Light of Death. One Catapult isn’t too bad, I’d be more concerned if there were two. At least a +1 match-up I think. Tomb Kings don’t like being rushed and you have the units to do it CR. Deployment seemed good for you and attacking directly made a lot of sense. I was a bit surprised not to see heavier use of Light of Death because it can trouble your Monsters. As the game played your opponent just couldn’t deal with them.

As a Daemon player I can say that’s a strong list. Not perfect (no magic etc.) but that many Nurgle Monstrous Beasts is a nightmare for many armies, they’re so hard to kill. The Plaguebearers are very, very solid and Epidemius is pure filth. -1 match-up I feel. It might even have been worth losing your DP’s to stop the Skillcannon shooting. As you say, Frosthearts don’t like Poison and his whole army pretty much had it. A bit unlucky not to cut through the Beasts quicker but that can easily happen. Your opponent only needs one unit to stick and then he can throw everything in as happened. I agree about the grinds, you really want to avoid them. The Star Dragon can often kill stuff out (though not fast) but your support units were just no match for stuff that doesn’t run and is insanely difficult to put wounds on.

Thanks very much for the report it was really good reading. Considering the strength of the lists and some nasty surprises I don’t think you did too badly. As said, the monsters are strong but the support is not up to snuff. Some really nicely painted armies there!

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:05 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I’m seriously impressed that Dwarf army won Best Painted ahead of Luke’s WoC. Must have been stunning!


It was incredibly well done. Every hair/braid on the beards were individually highlighted, every detail on the armor and runes was called out, it was truly spectacular. A gorgeous Wood Elf army actually came second! There were some really next-level armies at the event.

SpellArcher wrote:
Gateway in particular is a very strong spell and not too hard to cast.


Yeah, it's an interesting spell because if you roll strength 2-4 then the spell was kind of a waste and not worth the casting value, but you're just as likely to roll strength 10, which is amazingly good.

SpellArcher wrote:
The big strength apart from Khalida is the Casket I think. The extra Power Dice obviously but also Light of Death. One Catapult isn’t too bad, I’d be more concerned if there were two. At least a +1 match-up I think. Tomb Kings don’t like being rushed and you have the units to do it CR. Deployment seemed good for you and attacking directly made a lot of sense. I was a bit surprised not to see heavier use of Light of Death because it can trouble your Monsters. As the game played your opponent just couldn’t deal with them.


Light of Death was attempted every phase, but he never used more than 2 dice so every phase I always saved 2 of my dice to stop it because I've had it cascade through my army before and wreak havoc. I thought the same about the Catapult, I was worried about 2 but thought I could handle 1.

SpellArcher wrote:
Thanks very much for the report it was really good reading. Considering the strength of the lists and some nasty surprises I don’t think you did too badly. As said, the monsters are strong but the support is not up to snuff. Some really nicely painted armies there!


Thanks! The reports were a bit rushed of course because of the tournament, I'll try to get some other games with more detailed reports in the coming weeks, though it won't be for at least 2 weeks since I'm really busy at the moment. I've also just bought my ticket for Worcester, so I'll be thinking of list modifications before that and hopefully will get a game or two in prior to test the modifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
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Location: Otherworld
CaledorRises wrote:
It was incredibly well done. Every hair/braid on the beards were individually highlighted, every detail on the armor and runes was called out, it was truly spectacular. A gorgeous Wood Elf army actually came second! There were some really next-level armies at the event.

Reminds me of my first Warhammer tournaments long ago. There was a real painting ethos. Embarrassed my army at Worcester won’t be finished!

CaledorRises wrote:
Light of Death was attempted every phase, but he never used more than 2 dice

I’d have been tempted to 6-dice it.

CaledorRises wrote:
I've also just bought my ticket for Worcester

Splendid!

CaledorRises wrote:
I'll be thinking of list modifications before that

Very interested to see what these will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragonlord Rising
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:31 pm 
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So I'm currently looking at strengthening my magic phase as probably the biggest priority. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the following choice:

I'm probably going to drop the small Dragon Prince unit, which really is a shame since I'm very pleased with how their painting turned out, and using the points to upgrade my Mage to Level 2 and take the Ring of Fury. In a perfect world I'd use the other points to buy a second Mage, but I'm really trying to avoid painting up another Elf for a while. I may have to go down that route, though, we shall see. With the extra points I've got two options other than a new Mage, considering that Worcester allows allies:

Adding a Great Eagle to the list. This keeps maneuverability high and a Great Eagle is actually probably better at hunting warmachines than Dragon Princes unless the warmachines are Skullcannons/Ironblasters. It also could act as a second redirector if need be, possibly preventing some of the bad combats I got into at Hockley.

Dropping a Frostheart Phoenix and replacing it with an Engine of the Gods Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns and Devastating Charge. This option drops maneuverability by a decent amount as Stegadons are much slower than Frosthearts. It also loses the great debuffs from a Frostheart. There are a few possible benefits, though. The Stegadon is stubborn so it makes it even less likely to fail those bad leadership tests. It's also got a bound spell and makes other spells easier to cast, further boosting my magic phase. The aura ward save could also help protect things like my Star Dragon from errant cannon balls, not a good ward save, but a ward save nonetheless. The Stegadon's impact hits could also be very important in charges, particularly in shifting tough units like Trolls and Ogres that gave the Frosthearts problems at Hockley. I see some definitive advantages to taking the Stegadon, but also some clear disadvantages, mostly in the lower survivability of the Stegadon itself and the significant loss of movement speed.

Thoughts?


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