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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Gonna post as I go...

:)

RE.Lee wrote:
Deployment

Looks to me like the Bestigor will push down the right (they can handle the Treekin) while the Wild Riders will overlap your left, an issue because they're faster. You do have the Ambushing Gors to mix things up though. The spells look generally useful on both sides but nothing earth-shattering. A shame he didn't roll a lightning bolt to charge up your Shaggoth!

RE.Lee wrote:
kills some 5 Bestigors.

I'd be inclined to target the Razorgor.

RE.Lee wrote:
I move up with my hordes.

Might have been tempted to slow up with the Gors. Tricky one though. The Treekin advance looks a bit ambitious, the Wild Riders not so much (they should beat the Shaggoth, even if charged).

RE.Lee wrote:
The Elves charge! Wild Riders into the Shaggoths flank, Driads and Treeman into the Gors. The eagles goes behind my lines, trying to benefit somehow

Quite a long charge into the Shaggoth? Eagle should be redirecting your Bestigor!

RE.Lee wrote:
Razorgor suffers too - he loses 2 wounds but manages to pass a panic test on Ld6!

As a lone model he doesn't need to test here.

RE.Lee wrote:
The Wild Riders manage to put two wounds on the Shaggoth, but the retaliation is brutal and all 5 perish.

This is an epic fail! They have 12 S5 attacks re-rolling to hit, 4 1/2 wounds on average. 8 S4 Steed attacks should do a wound. Even given they whiffed, Shaggoth hit 5 times, wounded 5 times, 5 Ward saves failed!

RE.Lee wrote:
The Bestigors butcher the Treekin and overrun beyond the Glade Guard, which is unfortunate.

The curse of Frenzy.

RE.Lee wrote:
The heaps of S4 attacks are not doing much and the Shaggoth is on its last legs.

Treemen are tough. I guess you've had some hope of him failing a break test but if he kills the Shaggoth he'll start winning combat. Great Shaman too far away to help?

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:41 am 
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SA covered most of the points in detail. In general it feels like you're in a much better position then with the last battle around the same turn. By no means is it all over for the elves. But they lack the momentum and cohesion they had in the last battle.

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:33 am 
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Good points, as always.

The Wild Riders were indeed very unlucky, while the Shaggoth was having a rather good day (up to this point at least). My opponent remembered how well they've fared against the monster last time and was looking to killing him and overruning into the Gors (which wouldn't have happened anyway, because the Treeman was in the way).

Forgot single models don't need to do those 25% casualty checks - this makes the Ld6 Razorgor so much more useful!

I've asked my opponent why the eagle wasn't redirecting - he said he thought the Treekin would be better at holding stuff up. He's still delusional because of how nice the models look I think, or because of how well the Treeman has done.


Turn 3:
Eternal Guards charge my Razorgor, I flee but get caught and the Elves end up beyond the Treeman/Gor fight. Driads rally. Glade Guards turn towards my Bestigors. Eagle moves to block my ambushing Gors. The magic phase is dreadful as I fail to dispel Wildform on the Treeman and then have to let go Iceshard on the Gors. Shooting kills some Bestigors.
The main grind goes better than expected as the Treeman fluffs his attacks. I do 1 wound and the fighting continues.

I charge the eagle with the Gors and the southern Scouts with my Ungors (!). The Bestigors turn towards the Glade Guards. Once again not much luck in the magic phase. I do manage to shoot a Glade Guard with my Ungors, though.
The Gors and Shaggoth run out of luck - the latter is killed, while the former break and flee. Ouch.
The Ungors manage to run down the Scouts, which is a nice touch. The Gors however draw their combat with the eagle.

Image

Turn 4:
Eternal Guards charge the fleeing Gors and force them off the table. Driads assault my Ungors in the north. Damn Glade Guards evade (my positioning was rather poor). An elf mage miscasts (Wildform on the Driads perhaps?) and 2/3 of the EG die. No shooting.
The Gors carry on struggling with the Eagle. Driads beat up mu Ungors and I flee.

I clumsily turn my Bestigors (I think I was concerned about the incoming Driads and Treeman at the time).
Gors again fail to kill the Eagle, but at least break the beast.

Image

Turn 5:
The Glade Guards continue their dane, while I keep pursuing. The Forest Spirits remain stationary, happy not having to fight the deadly Bestigors.

Image

Turn 6:
Some characters bail from the doomed Glade Guard unit but my trap finally springs. The elves cast +2T but I counter with Savage Beast on my Great-Shaman, making him a A8 S7 re-rolling to hit killing machine, this on top of his elite Bestigor bodyguards. The elves are ripped to shreds despite their protection and thats it. A hard-fought draw in Drakwald!

Image

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:46 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
he said he thought the Treekin would be better at holding stuff up

All of us Wood Elf players have been there. Especially grim vs re-rolling S6 of course. Stubborn would improve them but what they're really missing is the S5 they had in the previous army book.

RE.Lee wrote:
The Gors and Shaggoth run out of luck - the latter is killed, while the former break and flee. Ouch.

Instantly costing you the BSB I guess.

RE.Lee wrote:
The elves are ripped to shreds despite their protection and thats it. A hard-fought draw in Drakwald!

Bravo, you kept plugging away RE. The Gors arriving where they did seemed inauspicious but they came good in the end. Treemen can be reliably taken down if you have the tools but otherwise, they're a major issue. Interesting game, thanks for the report!

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:03 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Instantly costing you the BSB I guess.


Yup! Poor Ghazrak de Couronne (suitable conversion coming soon)... I thought I was being smart by keeping him out of the Treeman's reach but I should have used his 4 S5 attacks to try and bring it down while the Shaggoth was still keeping him busy.

The Gors inevitably rolled a 1 for their ambush and my opponent got to decide which table edge they had to come from. Since the Bestigors were already leaving a trail of, well, gore further up I figured they'd be useful against the elven chaff behind my guys.

Thanks for reading and valuable insight!

Fighting will recommence in a couple of weeks. We're planning a rematch at 2,4k (finally points to take a Beastlord!) but a smaller battle against High Elves led by a different friend might take place earlier. I'm tempted to bring out Skaven for that one.

There's also some progress on the Halberdiers as I wait for my Boar Boyz to convert into Razorgor (and Centigor!).

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:27 am 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Yup! Poor Ghazrak de Couronne (suitable conversion coming soon)... I thought I was being smart by keeping him out of the Treeman's reach but I should have used his 4 S5 attacks to try and bring it down while the Shaggoth was still keeping him busy.

Maybe the Great Shaman was just too far away from the centre in this game RE?

RE.Lee wrote:
The Gors inevitably rolled a 1 for their ambush and my opponent got to decide which table edge they had to come from. Since the Bestigors were already leaving a trail of, well, gore further up I figured they'd be useful against the elven chaff behind my guys.

At least rulebook Ambush gives you the choice of table edge. I still think there's merit in the Beastman version though.

RE.Lee wrote:
Thanks for reading and valuable insight!

You're welcome.

RE.Lee wrote:
Fighting will recommence in a couple of weeks.

Excellent!

RE.Lee wrote:
There's also some progress on the Halberdiers

Look forward to seeing them.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:21 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Maybe the Great Shaman was just too far away from the centre in this game RE?


Could be. I was torn between advancing both hordes in a "V" formation, ready to support each other but covering a narrower area or moving forward parallel manner. I went for the latter, as I was more afraid of being chaffed/encircled/whoknowswhat - I wasn't expecting the units to be separated so much and turning the Bestigor around seemed like a bad idea. This was back when I was still expecting to bring down the Treeman. Later on it was just damage control and the Bestigor needed to grab as many points as possible (which they didn't do that well, due to my clumsy, clumsy movement.

The Halberdiers now have base colours and shades on. A couple of quick highlights and they should be done by Friday :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:02 am 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Could be. I was torn between advancing both hordes in a "V" formation, ready to support each other but covering a narrower area or moving forward parallel manner. I went for the latter, as I was more afraid of being chaffed/encircled/whoknowswhat - I wasn't expecting the units to be separated so much and turning the Bestigor around seemed like a bad idea. This was back when I was still expecting to bring down the Treeman. Later on it was just damage control and the Bestigor needed to grab as many points as possible (which they didn't do that well, due to my clumsy, clumsy movement.

Perhaps if you'd deployed the Bestigor where the Gors were and vice versa, the S6 unit being more central might have helped RE? Had that premier unit been a cavalry bus, flank might have been better but Infantry probably favour the middle.

RE.Lee wrote:
The Halberdiers now have base colours and shades on. A couple of quick highlights and they should be done by Friday

:)

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:55 am 
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Interesting point about the positioning of the Bestigors. This is even more relevant since I've dropped the Banner of Swiftness. Food for thought.

Meanwhile, I've finished the Halberdiers:

Image

The Empire is therefore pretty much done. I've still got a unit of Swordsmen and a second Captasus to paint, but since these are unlikely to be fielded often (ever?) I can move on to Chaos guys. The Boar Boyz have arrived so you'll be seeing some Razorgor and Centigor conversions in the near future (I hope).

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:03 am 
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Good, imposing unit RE.

Any thoughts to try a design in the banner?

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:25 pm 
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"Middenheim marches north" is by far my favourite blog over at warhammer-empire.com, so I'll probably steal one of the designs from Lateksimajava :wink:

Image

Without possessing half his skill I'll need to settle for a simplified version, obviously.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:17 am 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Without possessing half his skill I'll need to settle for a simplified version, obviously.

That is a very common feeling for me when it comes to painting fine details like banners. :) I usually keep it simple for that reason. I do like the fact that GW left the banner blank. In a lot of the later models, the banner comes with a design modelled on. Which is nice and easy but it doesn't make it easy to get your own design in there. And it can create a boring army if you have multiple units of the same kind in there.

RE.Lee wrote:
The Empire is therefore pretty much done.

Interesting concept. I didn't know this was actually possible with a WH army ;) I somehow always keep having more elves to paint. Though obviously, such a claim should be backed up by an army shot ;)

Rod

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:11 am 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Without possessing half his skill I'll need to settle for a simplified version, obviously.

While his work is very nice, so is yours RE. I prefer your maroon here too.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I do like the fact that GW left the banner blank. In a lot of the later models, the banner comes with a design modelled on.

The banner I got with Colin Dixon's 6th Edition metal Grave Guard is a nice compromise Rod. Sculpted-on detail around the edges but the face of the flag is clear.

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:57 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Prince of Spires wrote:
I do like the fact that GW left the banner blank. In a lot of the later models, the banner comes with a design modelled on.

The banner I got with Colin Dixon's 6th Edition metal Grave Guard is a nice compromise Rod. Sculpted-on detail around the edges but the face of the flag is clear.

Yeah, that's fine to have. Some detailing around the edge adds a feel of eliteness to a banner while still allowing you to use your own details and motives. But all the newer HE banners are fully sculpted and you can't really do anything with them except color them in. It make me want to hoard the old archer banners, which are a nice blank canvas to work with.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:57 am 
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Yup - blank banners are much better!

Ghazrak de Couronne is now built. I'm quite happy with him, though I used Empire shoulder pads, because I could find any Bret or Chaos ones that would be appropriate. Oh well, he apparently raids more that the land of the Fay Enchantress:

Image

Centigors and Razorgors coming soon!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Meaty!

RE.Lee wrote:
de Couronne

:?:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:29 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
RE.Lee wrote:
de Couronne

:?:


Ghazrak was once one of many beastmen warlords roaming the Bretonnia/Tilea border. Things changed when his paths crossed with Guillaume de Couronne - banner bearer and heir to that famous fiefdom. After a bloody fight that lasted for most of a summer day the young knight fell and was decapitated. Ghazrak claimed his sword, shield and, now defiled, banner. Soon after Guillaume's grieving father committed suicide. Ever since Ghazrak also lays claim to the title of Duke de Couronne.

I just really wanted to use the broken Bret shield from the Irongut set :wink:

Did some more work on the Centigors:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:04 pm 
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They look up for it!

:)

Which bits are from where?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:23 am 
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Beastmen heads, Savage Boar Boyz torso and arms. Two of the horses are from Marauders, one is an elven one with some chaos bits attached to make him more bulky.

The Razorgor:

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:23 am 
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Starting to look good. Some effective greenstuff work. And I like the fluff / background story you're working into it :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Thanks! I'd like to do some more greenstuff work and luckily fur is the easiest thing to sculpt so I can take it from there :wink:

The piggies have been based and undercoated and I've started one of the centigors, but was really in a mood to do Ghazrak, so I did!

Image

The freehand is mediocre, but I haven't really done any banners in a long while. Might upgrade it in the future.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:44 am 
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He's excellent, I think the banner will really stand out on the battlefield.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:52 am 
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For mediocre the freehand looks really good :)

As for greenstuff work, I would say start an overly ambitious project that requires lots of greenstuff work. It's the best way to learn in my opinion.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:21 am 
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Thanks for the kind words!

Prince of Spires wrote:
As for greenstuff work, I would say start an overly ambitious project that requires lots of greenstuff work. It's the best way to learn in my opinion.


Thats a good idea! Chaos lends itself towards these sort of things.

I'm going on holidays, so no hobby stuff for 2 weeks. I'll be bringing the Beastmen back for the 25th (versus WE) - here's the list I have in mind:

Beastlord - MoK, Many Limbed Fiend, Brass Cleaver, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour - a solid 7-9 S6 attacks, probably with re-rolls, T5, 3+/4++, should be fun!

Great Shaman, Level 4 Beasts, MoK, Chalice of Dark Rain, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Dispel Scroll, additional hand weapon

Shaman, Level 2 Beasts, MoK, Hagtree Fetish, additional hand weapon

Wargor BSB, MoK, Beast Banner, Many Limbed Fiend, Gouge-Tusks, Gnarled Hide, heavy armour, shield

2x28 Gors, MoK, additional hand weapons, command

30 Bestigors, MoK, Banner of Swiftness, command

2xRazorgor

Shaggoth, additional hand weapon


Lack of chaff might be a problem, but with 3 hordes I should cover a lot of ground. The Razorgor will fill in when needed. Guess that my tactics will be? :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
For mediocre the freehand looks really good

I agree. Well executed and the way to go if you don't want to tackle a full-on artistic banner.

RE.Lee wrote:
here's the list

Still a bit 2-dimensional as Beastman lists tend to be but the hitting power is better I think. The magic isn't awesome but it could be enough to get you into those grinding combats in enough strength to win.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Back from Holidays and ready with today's battle report!

Spell Archer - its tricky to build a Beastmen army beyond those infantry hordes, but I enjoy how they look and perform on the table. Its got something of a historical battle feel :wink:

My list was as above. I got Savage Beast, Amber Spear, Flock of Doom, Curse of Anraheir and 2x Wildform on my Shamans.

Wood Elves:
Level 3, Death, Wand of Jet, 4++
Level 3, Fire, Power Stone, 5++
BSB on Stag, Helm of the Hunt, Hail of Doom Arrow, stuff
Branchwraith

17 Glade Guards, command, poison
15 Eternal Guards, command, SoDiscipline
14 Driad
2x5 Scouts, poison
6 Treekin
6 Wild Riders
Treeman
2 Eagles

The Mages got Fireball, Caskading Cloak, Flaming Sword, Spirit Leech, Caress of Laniph and Soulblight.

Deployment was as follows:

Image

My Razorgors were protecting the flanks, with the infantry in line (from the northern edge - Bestigors, Gors with Shamans, Gors with Beastlord/BSB). The Shaggoth backed up the Beastlord's unit, as I figured he'd need it more against the Treeman and Wildriders in the south. My opponent forgot to deploy his eagles, so they'll appear suddenly on T2
:)
Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:31 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Back from Holidays and ready with today's battle report!

Splendid!

:)

The double lvl 3's is interesting and aggressive, he lacks the scroll though which can be costly vs Amber Spear for example. Fire not so great here I think but Death snipes could be dangerous as only the Beastlord has a Ward save. He's got plenty of Poison, which could be nasty, given your lack of armour. Again, I think the Treeman and Wild Riders are the main combat threat. Those Eagles could be a pain too.

RE.Lee wrote:
The Shaggoth backed up the Beastlord's unit, as I figured he'd need it more against the Treeman and Wildriders in the south

I agree. I'd be inclined to stay put on that flank and wheel the whole line around so the Bestigor make contact first. I'd also try to use the magic against the Treeman and Wild Riders.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:21 am 
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I'm with SA on the overall tactics. I'd wheel the beastmen line, boxing in the WE in the south. Should take a while, and the ranged damage you take going in could hurt. But it removes the mobility part from the WE army and should give you plenty of one on one fights, which is what you want in most cases.

Rod

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:04 am 
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Wish you guys were there at the time! :lol:

Turn 1.

Beastmen advance at full speed, mostly. The Shaman-Gors turn slightly to be able to target the juicy units on the Wood Elf left flank. Magic is quite successful, as I kill 5 Wild Riders.

The Forest Spirits in the north move to cover the Glade Guard. The lone Wild Rider moves alongside the Scouts in the extreme south. Magic is stopped, though I needed to burn my Dispel Sctoll. Shooting kills some Bestigors, while the Shaggoth suffers a single wound from all those poisoned attacks. I finally remembered to use the Chalice!

Image

Turn 2.

Charges! Or rather - attempts. The Bestigor need a 4 to get to the Driads and roll a 2. The Beastlord-Gor need an 8 and roll a 6. Damn those dice! Only the Razorgor manages to catch the Wild Rider, but suffers 2 wounds, causes none, breaks and is run down!
Magic kills some scouts.

Opponent remembers the deploy the eagles and uses them to block my Bestigors and Beastlord-Gor. Treeman backs up, Wild Rider moves to counter-charge, Treekin move up to face the Shaman-Gor.
Magic is a disaster - first Soul Blight weakens my Beastlord-Gor and then my BSB Caressed to death.
That unit just got a whole lot weaker :(
Shooting kills several Bestigor and puts another wound on the Shaggoth.

Image

That was one bad turn, but I've still got some fighting potential up the field. To be continued!

_________________
cheers, Lee

Elven Field Surgeon, Department of Intensive Care, Resuscitation and Necromancy


Last edited by RE.Lee on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 11488
Location: Otherworld
RE.Lee wrote:
Magic is quite successful, as I kill 5 Wild Riders.

=D>

RE.Lee wrote:
The Bestigor need a 4 to get to the Driads and roll a 2.

Ouch.

RE.Lee wrote:
Only the Razorgor manages to catch the Wild Rider, but suffers 2 wounds, causes none, breaks and is run down!

Wild Riders are pure filth.

RE.Lee wrote:
Opponent remembers the deploy the eagles and uses them to block my Bestigors and Beastlord-Gor.

At least if he Holds with the one in front of the Beastlord you can probably Reform to 5-wide after you kill it. With the losses ranks become more important than maximising attacks and your General is pretty destructive.

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