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 Post subject: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:31 am 
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Hi guys! Lately I've seen alot of people getting confused with how charges / fleeing works properly and I thought I would give my insight on how it works so people can get to understand it better. I've included diagrams to help with the process as you may all know Warhammer has many small little rules that needs to be observed!

Charging 101
Legal Charge
In order to declare a legal charge you need the following criteria
1) Target unit been charge is initially within your Line of Sight
2) The distance between the chargining unit and the unit been charged is equal to or less than the Movment value of charging unit + 12.
3) Can touch the unit been charged within 1 wheel.

Steps
1) Declare a legal charge (See Legal Charge)
2a) Resolve Terror check if necessary
2b) Skirmishers - Upon resolving terror check skirmishers will need to "squish" into the FRONT MOST CENTRE MODEL / POINT (if there are a even number of models in the front rank) of the unit.
2c) Declare charge reaction (Stand & Shoot, Flee and Hold)
3) Resolve reaction
3a) Flee
3a,i) Pivot fleeing unit away from charging unit (centre to centre)
3a,ii) Roll flee distance (2D6 or 3D6)
3a,iii) Move fleeing unit
3a,iv) Test for panic if fleeing unit moves through friendly unit AND/OR roll for Dangerous Terrain (if fleeing through enemy units, impassable terrain or relevant terrain).
3a,v) If the unit been charged chooses to flee, the charging unit can test for redirection in which case process starts back at step 1 (remember you can only redirect ONCE per charge phase per turn per unit).
3b) Stand & Shoot
3b,i) Assuming the distance between the units is greater than the Movement value of the charging unit roll for number of applicable models in line of sight of charging unit. Note: There is no maximum range. Blowpipes - range 12" can still Stand & Shoot even if the unit charging is 20" away.
3b,ii) Ensure shooting modifiers are attributed. E.G Long range, soft cover, hard cover and etc...
3b,iii) If Stand & Shoot causes sufficient wounds to the charging unit, then the charging unit will need to take a panic test. IF the charging unit fails its panic test they will fail their charge and INSTEAD flee away (centre to centre) from the unit that Stand & Shoot.
3c) Hold
3c,i) Stand there and be cool!
4) Repeat step 1 - 3 until all charges have been declared
5) Measure the shortest distance between the charging unit and the unit been charged (remember you can measure the distance anytime during the game).
6) Roll for charges IN ANY ORDER.
6a,i) If the charging roll (2D6 or 3D6) plus the Movement value of the charging unit is equal to or greater than the distance between the units then the charge is successful.
6a,ii) If the unit been charged chose to Flee as a reaction the unit is caught and destroyed and the charging unit make reform by passing a leadership test.
6b,i) If the charging roll (2D6 or 3D6) plus the Movement value of the charging unit is less than the distance between the units then the charge has failed.
6b,ii) Move the charging unit by the amount of the highest value in the charging roll.
7) Once charges have been rolled immediately move the relevant unit except for
7a) multiple charges into a single unit.
7a,i) Before moving the units roll the charges for each unit charging the same target. If two or more units charging the same target rolls sufficiently then move them together.
8)ensure charging unit(s) equally maximises base-to-base contact.

Simple Charge
Image
As it can be seen in the picture above the Phoenix Guards are 8" from the Saurus. They wish to charge and assuming the Saurus hold the Phoenix Guard need to roll at least 3 or above on 2D6 to make the charge. Assuming they make the roll the Phoenix Guards move in and maximise.

Fleeing Charge
Image
Here the Phoenix Guard charge the Saurus and as it can be seen they are 8" apart. The Saurus chooses to flee. Following the steps above the fleeing unit pivots as shown and moves in the direction indicated. The skinks behind them would have to take a panic test as a fleeing unit has moved pass them. Ensure when moving the fleeing unit that it has to be 1" away from all units and impassable terrain. Assuming the skinks pass their panic test the Phoenix Guard can redirect into the skinks if they pass their leadership test. Remember each unit can only redirect once per charging phase.

Stand & Shoot Charge
Image
As it can be seen picture above; the Crossbowman are been charged by the Dragon Princes. Since the distance between the two units is equal to or less than the Movement value of the Dragon Princes the Crossbowman do not have the option to Stand & Shoot. As with the Skinks since the distance between the Dragon Princes and the Skinks are greater than the Movement value of the Dragon Princes, the Skinks can Stand & Shoot. Even though the Skinks carry blowpipes/javelins (range 12") they can still Stand & Shoot even though it's outside of their missile weapon range but modifiers still apply (long range and Stand & Shoot).

Skirmishers Charge
Image
As it can be seen the Phoenix Guard charges the Skinks; assuming the Skinks Hold or Stand & Stand before they do their reaction they would "squish" in as seen on the picture in the top right. After the "squish" in follow up with resolving their reaction and follow the remaining steps.

Skirmishers Charge - Dodgy Play
Image
As it can be seen in the picture above the Phoenix Guard want to charge the Skinks which are (at the start of the charge sequence) within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard. Following the steps the Phoenix Guard would declare their charge and the Skinks would "squish" in; notice that after "squishing" in the Skinks are no longer within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard? When this situation happens (yes it is legal) the Phoenix Guard AUTOMATICALLY fail their charge. This is just bad rules writing on GW part and it quite frown upon especially in the tournament scene. Sometimes this can accidentally happen (or your opponent intent for this to happen) in which case the simplest would be to nudge the Skinks to the left so that they would be within Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guards.

Multiple Charges
Image
As seen the Phoenix Guard and the Swordmasters are going to charge the Saurus. When they charge they need to maximise equally between the units. Remember to roll charges for the Phoenix Guard and Swordmasters concurrently or in sequence to see if both units makes the charge.
This can also been seen in the Phoenix Guard and Skycutter Chariot. Both units have maximised their base-to-base contact equally between each other on the Saurus unit.

Single Model Charge
The following are examples of single model charging
Image
Please note all the position of the Frostheart Phoenix in the diagram shown above are perfectly legal as they have maximised base-to-base contact

Double Flee
What is this infamous double flee everyone has been talking about. Well in this simple diagram I will explain how it works.
Image
As it can be seen in the picture above the Saurus is facing 2 units of Ellyrian Reavers. The Saurus charges the first unit of Reavers a.k.a R1 (as indicated by the Red Line). The R1 flee and pass the other unit of Ellyrian Reavers a.k.a R2; assuming R2 passes it's panic test the Saurus has the opportunity to redirect. If he does not redirect he will automatically fail his charge as he cannot physically move his unit into contact to the declared target. Assumingly he does redirect and pass the test to do so the Saurus can elect to charge R2 (as indicated by the blue line). R2 decides to flee and does so pass R1 but since R1 is already flee it doesn't not need to take a panic test nor does it flee again. The Saurus automatically fail as they've declare a new charge unto R2 but cannot physically touch no matter the distance between them. Even thought they had originally declared a charge on R1 they cannot charge them as they have declared a new charge on R2 thereby can only legally charge R2 and no one else.

Catching a fleeing enemy
Image
As it can be seen the Phoenix Guard make a charge towards the Skinks whom are around 7" away. The Skinks flee by rolling low e.g 5 and are now only 12" away from the Phoenix Guards. Assuming the Phoenix Guard roll 10 which more then sufficient to catch the Skinks the question is where do the Phoenix Guards final resting place be. As it can be seen in the third picture the final resting place will be where the skinks are caught i.e 12" from the original position of the Phoenix Guards.

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Last edited by pk-ng on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:43 am 
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Hurray! Something especially for me :)

Very good one, thanks a lot for sharing! I will try to comment later on but if you have more ideas like that, please post them! We need more proper tactical posts like yours :)

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:32 am 
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That double charge seems cheesy. Is it allowed in tournaments?


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Very excellent effort! However I feel that a couple of things are off. Being at work, I don't have my rulebook so I am fully prepared to be corrected but I'm fairly sure I'm correct.

"i) Move the charging unit by the amount of the highest value in the charging roll.
7) Once all charges have been rolled move the units IN ANY ORDER."

I think in this case when you roll your charges, you also move when you roll them? The exception is if it's a multi-charge onto one unit, then they're all rolled "together" and considered to be moved at the same time.

"Following the steps the Phoenix Guard would declare their charge and the Skinks would "squish" in; notice that after "squishing" in the Skinks are no longer within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard (i.e bottom right picture)? When this situation happens (yes it is legal) the Phoenix Guard AUTOMATICALLY fail their charge. This is just bad rules writing on GW part and it quite frown upon especially in the tournament scene."

I don't think this is quite correct either! You do not need line of sight at the point of moving chargers, simply to declare the charge in the first place. After squishing together the charger still has the movement to reach the enemy, and that's all that matters. Otherwise, it'd be even easier to abuse with fast cav, as you'd be able to put them at the corner of a horde, and be very sure of getting out of line of sight of the enemy by fleeing at an oblique angle.

I think there is a similar manoeuvre you’re thinking of where after squishing it suddenly becomes impossible for the charger to contact the skirmishers, and that’s definitely frowned on and considered “worst play” by tournaments like the ETC. I don’t quite remember the specifics, unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Brilliant write up, thanks!

6a i where do you move the charging unit to? Receiving (fleeing) unit's start location or the full charge distance rolled?

7 when moving chargers, if two units charge one, and one of the charges fails and subsequently blocks the charge route of the other, does that force the second charge to fail too?

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Stormies right that you move each charger after rolling, except for multiple charges on one unit.

Quote:
7 when moving chargers, if two units charge one, and one of the charges fails and subsequently blocks the charge route of the other, does that force the second charge to fail too?

If you charge multiple into one, you roll all their distances at once, and move them in whichever order you desire (since you're the current player and the book doesn't specify which order to move them in). This means that if one charging unit would block the other by failing a charge, you might be able to get into contact by moving it last. If the blocking unit is in the way now and the failed charge will move it out of the way, you could move it first.

I guess that if the blocking unit is in the way regardless of whether you move it first or last, then they will block the charger who rolled high enough. Also, with two friendly units charging two enemies there are some situations in which one failed charge gets in the way of another, since you have less control over the order.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:53 pm 
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Stormie's also right about charging skirmishers, as long as you can legally declare the charge and then roll high enough to get there, you can complete the charge.

Ferny wrote:
6a i where do you move the charging unit to? Receiving (fleeing) unit's start location or the full charge distance rolled?


If you charge a fleeing unit and catch it, you move the charging unit into base contact with the fleeing unit just like making a normal charge. Then the fleeing unit is removed (don't forget panic tests within 6" for unit being destroyed) and the chargers can test to reform.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:09 am 
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@Nagashias - Yes it's allowed not cheesy at all.
@Stormies - Re: Skirmishers you're correct i'll fix that up! Getting confused with all the rules jumble in together!
@Ferny - you stop where you catch them. I'll put in a diagram

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:20 am 
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Updated

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:41 am 
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[quote="pk-ng"]@Nagashias - Yes it's allowed not cheesy at all.

What if they roll higher than you flee? Ie. you're 4 inches away, and roll 4 for fleeing. They roll 12. Are the unit not caught before moving the fleeeing unit?


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Nagashias wrote:
What if they roll higher than you flee? Ie. you're 4 inches away, and roll 4 for fleeing. They roll 12. Are the unit not caught before moving the fleeeing unit?

As soon as your unit flees, it moves the 2D6" away. If running through the other unit, it must continue to flee until it's at least 1" away from the other unit. Only after the fleeing unit completes its move, the charging unit may make its move. Now, the charging unit might roll high enough to catch the fleeing unit under normal circumstances, but then, there's another unit in the way. The rule on p.22 of the Rulebook says: under no circumstances can a unit use its charge move to move into contact with an enemy it has not declared a charge against. Thus, the other unit is treated as an obstacle, and since the charging unit cannot avoid the obstacle, the charge will fail - the unit will move the higher number rolled on the charge dice, and will then stop. If it comes close to the intervening unit, it must stop 1" away.
IMHO, this is the prime example of "lawyering" the rules, but it does not change the fact that it's legal.
BTW... doesn't it fit more into "Rules Questions" subforum?

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:50 am 
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Nagashias wrote:
pk-ng wrote:
@Nagashias - Yes it's allowed not cheesy at all.

What if they roll higher than you flee? Ie. you're 4 inches away, and roll 4 for fleeing. They roll 12. Are the unit not caught before moving the fleeeing unit?

Thsi is only true when a unit breaks from combat. Not when the unit is fleeing from a charge as Loucipher has explained.

Loucipher wrote:
IMHO, this is the prime example of "lawyering" the rules, but it does not change the fact that it's legal.

The line is different for everybody

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:14 pm 
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theviking wrote:
Stormie's also right about charging skirmishers, as long as you can legally declare the charge and then roll high enough to get there, you can complete the charge.

Ferny wrote:
6a i where do you move the charging unit to? Receiving (fleeing) unit's start location or the full charge distance rolled?


If you charge a fleeing unit and catch it, you move the charging unit into base contact with the fleeing unit just like making a normal charge. Then the fleeing unit is removed (don't forget panic tests within 6" for unit being destroyed) and the chargers can test to reform.


Hi guys, if in a new turn you elect to charge a unit that is already fleeing do they get a charge reaction against it? The BRB is not clear on this.

For instance in enemy players turn he charges you, you win combat, he flees and gets away. Your turn you elect to charge him while he's fleeing.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:31 am 
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Quote:
As it can be seen in the picture above the Phoenix Guard want to charge the Skinks which are (at the start of the charge sequence) within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard. Following the steps the Phoenix Guard would declare their charge and the Skinks would "squish" in; notice that after "squishing" in the Skinks are no longer within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard? When this situation happens (yes it is legal) the Phoenix Guard AUTOMATICALLY fail their charge. This is just bad rules writing on GW part and it quite frown upon especially in the tournament scene. Sometimes this can accidentally happen (or your opponent intent for this to happen) in which case the simplest would be to nudge the Skinks to the left so that they would be within Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guards.


This isn't just considered "bad play," and frowned upon, it's considered illegal and banned (ETC and Swedish competitive play bans this maneuver). Best to point out that you shouldn't in any circumstance use this sort of play to your advantage, but it is also good to be aware of this to prevent such play being used against used against you.

Overall, great post, and deserves a sticky or an inclusion in other of the other sticked posts.

Good work!

Quote:
Hi guys, if in a new turn you elect to charge a unit that is already fleeing do they get a charge reaction against it? The BRB is not clear on this.

For instance in enemy players turn he charges you, you win combat, he flees and gets away. Your turn you elect to charge him while he's fleeing.


The relevant portion is under fleeing units in the BRB. If a unit is already fleeing, it has no choice; it's only reaction is to continue making flee reactions.

Axiem


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Axiem wrote:
If a unit is already fleeing, it has no choice; it's only reaction is to continue making flee reactions.


A wonderful use of reavers/eagles is to get them behind enemy lines, declare a charge on a unit with something scary so the unit flees, then declare another charge at the same unit with the reavers. The fleeing unit will run right back towards the first unit, all but guaranteeing they are caught. Tricky to pull off, but so rewarding when it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:06 pm 
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If you position your second unit so that its charge sends the fleeing enemy back towards the unit it originally fled to, they won't be necessarily caught.
Suppose a situation:
You have your infantry deathstar unit and your Reavers unit positioned 24" away. The enemy unit (suppose it has 5 infantry ranks for a 4" depth) is positioned 4" from the deathstar, and 16" away from the Reavers, exactly between them (for a nice rear charge if the enemy holds).
Your deathstar charges first, effecing a "Flee!" charge reaction. The enemy lucks out and flees 10" (ending 14" from where you start), while you manage to roll 7 (3+4), which, added to Move 5, means 12 - charge failed. You move 4" forward. The Deathstar is now 10" away from the enemy, and the enemy is now just 6" from the Reavers.
Then, your Reavers, seeing the opportunity to kill a fleeing enemy (as per p. 23 of BRB), declare their charge. The enemy can only Flee, this time towards the deathstar. Alas, the Lady Luck grants the enemy a Boxcar (double 6), whereas your roll is a meagre 5 (4+1). The enemy's 12" (rolled) + 6 (starting distance) beats your 9 (Move) + 5 (rolled distance). Charge failed, Reavers move 4".
Now, here's the clou.

The enemy, being just 10" away from the Deathstar, runs into them, having rolled 12" as a Flee! distance.
It passes through the Deathstar, and ends its move behind them, spaced at least 1" away. All models that passed through your unit must take a Dangerous Terrain Test (as per p. 25 of the BRB), and any models that fail the test suffer a wound with no AS allowed. Since it's a plain "1 on a D6" roll, no big losses should be expected (an enemy might luck out and lose no models).
The enemy winds up behind your deathstar, making it impossible to charge it next turn. Your Reavers cannot charge, too, since their LoS is blocked by your Deathstar.
If the enemy then rallies such a unit (whereupon it will reform just right for a rear charge into your battle line), you have a problem.

Sure, provoking moves like this can sometimes add to the turmoil you can throw the enemy units into, but let's not forget that this can also be a double-edged sword.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:06 pm 
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A great write up, should be stickied.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:19 am 
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It definitely should be! =D>

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:42 am 
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Axiem wrote:
Quote:
As it can be seen in the picture above the Phoenix Guard want to charge the Skinks which are (at the start of the charge sequence) within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard. Following the steps the Phoenix Guard would declare their charge and the Skinks would "squish" in; notice that after "squishing" in the Skinks are no longer within the Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guard? When this situation happens (yes it is legal) the Phoenix Guard AUTOMATICALLY fail their charge. This is just bad rules writing on GW part and it quite frown upon especially in the tournament scene. Sometimes this can accidentally happen (or your opponent intent for this to happen) in which case the simplest would be to nudge the Skinks to the left so that they would be within Line of Sight of the Phoenix Guards.


This isn't just considered "bad play," and frowned upon, it's considered illegal and banned (ETC and Swedish competitive play bans this maneuver). Best to point out that you shouldn't in any circumstance use this sort of play to your advantage, but it is also good to be aware of this to prevent such play being used against used against you.

At the risk of turning this into a rules discussion, but I don't think that you automatically fail the charge. Looking through the charge rules, there is only 1 place where line of sight matters. BRB P15, Declare a charge: "When you declare a charge, one or more models must be able to draw line of sight to the enemy unit and the target must lie partially in the charging units front arc"

Note that it reads that when declaring a charge and only then, you must meet these 2 requirements. Charge reaction (so squishing in) comes after declaring the charge and so has no impact on declaring the charge. In no other part of declaring or moving chargers is LoS mentioned. Therefor, LoS has no bearing on moving chargers. As long as you can reach the unit you are charging with a single 90 degree wheel and rolling above the distance needed it is a valid charge.

I'll sticky this topic. It definatly deserves it.

Rod

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:34 am 
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Yeah I thought he said he was going to correct his post to remove that bit..?

There is definitely some sneaky skirmishers-squishing trick that is possible, though I don't remember it (thankfully ;) ).


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Loucipher wrote:
If you position your second unit so that its charge sends the fleeing enemy back towards the unit it originally fled to, they won't be necessarily caught.

You are correct. However, the situation you propose could not happen as chargers are only moved after all charges are declared and reactions are resolved. So in that case the death star declares a charge, the enemy flees towards the reavers. Then the reavers would declare their charge, sending the fleeing unit back towards the deathstar. Then I would roll up my charge distances and hopefully the fleeing unit is within easy range of my deathstar. It is certainly possible for them to roll very high for the second flee and and bounce back over the deathstar, but if they were close enough after fleeing the first charge perhaps I wouldn't need to charge with the reavers and send them back where they came from. We could insert any number of hypothetical numbers, units sizes, terrain considerations, etc, but my intent was to point out the tactic of bouncing a fleeing unit around using the mandatory flee response. The exact details will be different for each situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dumbies
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:05 am 
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Stormie wrote:
Yeah I thought he said he was going to correct his post to remove that bit..?

There is definitely some sneaky skirmishers-squishing trick that is possible, though I don't remember it (thankfully ;) ).

Whoops thought I did. I'll get it done as soon as I can :).

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Just re-read all this, including comments - looks like all the revisions have now been made.

Love it, fantastic resource! Now I just need one for the whole game (e.g. 1. start of turn, 1.a. remember to drink your damn potions, 2. now you can declare charges, muppet).

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Great read - I have to remember to actuallu use the double flee someday... Funny how that maneuver is considered ok, and the skirmisher squishing is not. Both seem loopholes in the rules, but at the same time make chaff good at what they meant for - harrassment.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:06 pm 
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Regarding Skirmisher's Charge - Dodgy Play

Yes, this flies in the face of the spirit of the rules, and GW is largely to blame.

Such a charge is legal at the time it is declared, and as such should still be permitted even if the charged unit's contraction puts it out of the forward arc of the chargers, as long as they can still complete the charge by making one wheel of up to 90 degrees.

Checking on p16 of the BRB, it says the charged unit must be in line of sight of and in the front arc of the charging unit WHEN THE CHARGE IS DECLARED. Additionally, according to p21, the unit being charged is charged in the front/flank/rear according to which arc the charging unit was in WHEN THE CHARGE WAS DECLARED.

If anyone can find anywhere in the rules that says that charge arcs have to be redetermined when the charge is actually made, please let me know, quoting the page number and/or section of the rules (or FAQ). I am aware that charged units fleeing through units/buildings can make the charge impossible and therefore automatically fail, but this is a somewhat different case and not being dealt with here, so please don't cite any rules in relation to this.

As a matter of interest, I came across several examples of such dodgy play at worst play. Please note that in no way do I endorse what it found on this link and would advise the reader to use his or her own judgement whilst reading it.

It would be highly ridiculous for the (potentially) charging unit to see an enemy unit ("Look! There are some gutter runners. Charge, men!"), get ready to charge, the skirmishers contract (so as to be in a legal formation for close-combat) putting them out of the forward arc of the charging unit, and as far as the charging unit is concerned have disappeared or moved slightly too far to the left and it is too much bother to wheel that far ("Chaaaarrrrr......Wait! Where did they go?").


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:47 pm 
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@Kes-Elrin: I agree with your reading of the rules. When declaring a charge, target must lie in the front arc, be visible to the charging unit and be in (maximum) range.

When moving chargers, all that matters is that you can contact the unit, using a single wheel and that you or the unit being charged can close the door. Within those confines, you have unlimited movement, and the rules don't say anything about front arc etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:34 pm 
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pk-ng wrote:
Double Flee
What is this infamous double flee everyone has been talking about. Well in this simple diagram I will explain how it works.
Image
As it can be seen in the picture above the Saurus is facing 2 units of Ellyrian Reavers. The Saurus charges the first unit of Reavers a.k.a R1 (as indicated by the Red Line). The R1 flee and pass the other unit of Ellyrian Reavers a.k.a R2; assuming R2 passes it's panic test the Saurus has the opportunity to redirect. If he does not redirect he will automatically fail his charge as he cannot physically move his unit into contact to the declared target. Assumingly he does redirect and pass the test to do so the Saurus can elect to charge R2 (as indicated by the blue line). R2 decides to flee and does so pass R1 but since R1 is already flee it doesn't not need to take a panic test nor does it flee again. The Saurus automatically fail as they've declare a new charge unto R2 but cannot physically touch no matter the distance between them. Even thought they had originally declared a charge on R1 they cannot charge them as they have declared a new charge on R2 thereby can only legally charge R2 and no one else.


I always thought that if the charging unit now rolled enough to catch the first fleeing reavers, it will count as having overrun the reavers (even though the other group of reavers is in the way, the first group will have been run down 'along the way', before they get past the second group) and moreover charge straight into the second group, which will not be allowed a charge reaction because they are 'caught unawares'.

Or am I now applying rules to situations they are not meant to be applied to?

PS. If the charging unit failes to catch the fleeing reavers, it will ofc have failed the charge and probably not move far enough to reach the second group of reavers, but assume in my situation they do manage to catch them.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:26 am 
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Bashtrigger wrote:
pk-ng wrote:
Double Flee
What is this infamous double flee everyone has been talking about. Well in this simple diagram I will explain how it works.
Image
As it can be seen in the picture above the Saurus is facing 2 units of Ellyrian Reavers. The Saurus charges the first unit of Reavers a.k.a R1 (as indicated by the Red Line). The R1 flee and pass the other unit of Ellyrian Reavers a.k.a R2; assuming R2 passes it's panic test the Saurus has the opportunity to redirect. If he does not redirect he will automatically fail his charge as he cannot physically move his unit into contact to the declared target. Assumingly he does redirect and pass the test to do so the Saurus can elect to charge R2 (as indicated by the blue line). R2 decides to flee and does so pass R1 but since R1 is already flee it doesn't not need to take a panic test nor does it flee again. The Saurus automatically fail as they've declare a new charge unto R2 but cannot physically touch no matter the distance between them. Even thought they had originally declared a charge on R1 they cannot charge them as they have declared a new charge on R2 thereby can only legally charge R2 and no one else.


I always thought that if the charging unit now rolled enough to catch the first fleeing reavers, it will count as having overrun the reavers (even though the other group of reavers is in the way, the first group will have been run down 'along the way', before they get past the second group) and moreover charge straight into the second group, which will not be allowed a charge reaction because they are 'caught unawares'.

Or am I now applying rules to situations they are not meant to be applied to?

PS. If the charging unit failes to catch the fleeing reavers, it will ofc have failed the charge and probably not move far enough to reach the second group of reavers, but assume in my situation they do manage to catch them.


You are confusing it with the rules for pursue / overrun. For charging you can never charge something you never declared to have charged. You always declare you charge then the reaction then move the fleeing unit to the new position. Assuming you didn't redirect your unit will charge the new position of the fleeing unit thereby you need to re-measure the distance. If there's a unit in the way you have automatically failed the charge.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:46 am 
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An obvious one I'm sure, but what happens if (say) a horde charges a unit 5-wide which was deployed on the 12" mark in between a second and third unit also deployed on the 12" mark. Assuming the horde is straight on and therefore doesn't have to close the door it will find itself in contact with three units unless some fudge is applied? And if it isn't straight on potentially it would clip one of the side units and close the door on that (i.e. would have to declare the charge on that side unit) but would then find itself in B2B with the middle unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging for Dummies
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:43 am 
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Ferny wrote:
An obvious one I'm sure, but what happens if (say) a horde charges a unit 5-wide which was deployed on the 12" mark in between a second and third unit also deployed on the 12" mark. Assuming the horde is straight on and therefore doesn't have to close the door it will find itself in contact with three units unless some fudge is applied? And if it isn't straight on potentially it would clip one of the side units and close the door on that (i.e. would have to declare the charge on that side unit) but would then find itself in B2B with the middle unit.


My friends and me always work around this problem by making the charge at the slightest angle possible to assure maximalization without hitting anything but the middle unit, then the unit closes the door untill just before it would hit any of the other units, and then the opponent's middle unit (the one being charged) will then close the door the rest of the way.

But it is an interesting question nontheless as this is again one of those rules we have decided by debate and simply set as houserule


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