Come In, let me convert you

[Eldacar]

No idea if there was a reply, it's just something the lecturer gave us to get us thinking outside the box in the first week. Since the actual philosophy unit is "love, sex and death", it has nothing to do with the actual unit itself.

Would be interesting to find out though, might ask.

It sounds very similar to a speech made by President Bartlet in the second season of The West Wing, actually.

[Bob of Beleriand]

No idea if there was a reply, it's just something the lecturer gave us to get us thinking outside the box in the first week. Since the actual philosophy unit is "love, sex and death", it has nothing to do with the actual unit itself.

Would be interesting to find out though, might ask.

It sounds very similar to a speech made by President Bartlet in the second season of The West Wing, actually.

It was inspired by that chain letter.

[Delaqure]

I actually do not mind at all people coming to my door to share their faith. I don't know if you know Penn Gillette, but here in the states he is a rather famous magician and has a show in Vegas. Anyway he is an avid athiest. But I love his philosophy on people sharing their faith with him. He says he would be insulted if they didn't. His reasoning is that if we really believe that the people around us are not going to make it to heaven without faith in Jesus Christ and we don't share the gospel with him, then we don't really care about him.

You see, people share their faith not because they are just proselityzing to get you to join their church, but are doing so because they really care. At least I hope that is the reason. Christians are supposed to love everyone and if we truly did and really believe that without Christ people are lost, we should share the gospel with them because we do care about them. So, don't be too hard on those trying to share Jesus with you. You don't have to believe, but just know they do so because they do and they care.

[Sarcon]

This reminds me of this commercial we had in Holland a few years back, about this car salesmen that tries to sell a car to the Jehovas visiting him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiOZ5lTpF9I

[Amendil]

Oh my. I should start off saying I am a practicing Christian. I attend a Church of Christ, even though I grew up in a Baptist church, and a Nazarene Church.

I am somewhat intimidated by the comments on here, but I have followed a lot of you guys on here and know you guys to be human beings.

I am a christian, not a saint. Not a condemner, not a judger.

Let me tell you right now that there are people out there who call themselves Christian who are not. Similar to the Christians who waged crusades and Holy Wars, they do not have it put together.

The Old Testament was a set of guidelines created for God's people in a world and community entirely different to the one in which we live today. If your transpose a section of the world today back to those years there are very, very few similarities. People who like refrencing Leviticus to Christians nowadays do not understand that things have changed. God is constant, but HE is not stupid. Times change and He changes also with them. Not in principles and integrity, but in applications and interraction in the world. In the Old Testament nations were more than ready to kill and enslave the Jewish people, so they had commandments that helped them survive back then.

Then there was a change in society. At some point, we kind of stopped braining each other with swords and charging into each other one horseback and dragging away other womens and children and offering them as sacrifice to other gods. Key note "kind of". Well with this change in the world, there was a Change in God. Everyone was invited to be His people, not just the Jewish people. That is why now the New Testament seems at odds with the Old Testament.

The New Testament is a message of love. Truly. Any church that starts a Anti Fag movement or end-of-times speech is NOT doing what the New Testament implies. A christian that follows the Bible, you will find, is a kind person, with imperfections, who believes the the creation of the world is so very complex and intricate that there must have been a creator behind it. They believe if there is good, there is chaos, and that there is more to life than simple, forgiving, non consequential death.

They will not try to shove it down your throat. They will merely share their opinions. If you disagree with them they will tell you that they respect that, but they disagree. They will also make mistakes you know. :/ We are all human here.

I do not mean this is a converting message. not in the slightest. Simply as a mini attempt at clarification of what a Christian should look like versus what many Christians do and say. It is a shame. I do read my Bible. I do go to church. I do pray. I do believe in more than death. but I am NOT here to force that on you. that is your choice. I believe that there is a creator who cares for me specifically. Too good to be true? seems like it. That is part of the beauty. If you have any questions, please PM me, don't try to cut my legs from under me on the forum, as I have not tried to do the same to you.

Kindly, and always I High Elf fan

Amendil.

[Elbhereth]

Isha´s blessings...

[Falahk]

Oh my. I should start off saying I am a practicing Christian. I attend a Church of Christ, even though I grew up in a Baptist church, and a Nazarene Church.

I am somewhat intimidated by the comments on here, but I have followed a lot of you guys on here and know you guys to be human beings.

I am a christian, not a saint. Not a condemner, not a judger.

Let me tell you right now that there are people out there who call themselves Christian who are not. Similar to the Christians who waged crusades and Holy Wars, they do not have it put together.

The Old Testament was a set of guidelines created for God's people in a world and community entirely different to the one in which we live today. If your transpose a section of the world today back to those years there are very, very few similarities. People who like refrencing Leviticus to Christians nowadays do not understand that things have changed. God is constant, but HE is not stupid. Times change and He changes also with them. Not in principles and integrity, but in applications and interraction in the world. In the Old Testament nations were more than ready to kill and enslave the Jewish people, so they had commandments that helped them survive back then.

Then there was a change in society. At some point, we kind of stopped braining each other with swords and charging into each other one horseback and dragging away other womens and children and offering them as sacrifice to other gods. Key note "kind of". Well with this change in the world, there was a Change in God. Everyone was invited to be His people, not just the Jewish people. That is why now the New Testament seems at odds with the Old Testament.

The New Testament is a message of love. Truly. Any church that starts a Anti Fag movement or end-of-times speech is NOT doing what the New Testament implies. A christian that follows the Bible, you will find, is a kind person, with imperfections, who believes the the creation of the world is so very complex and intricate that there must have been a creator behind it. They believe if there is good, there is chaos, and that there is more to life than simple, forgiving, non consequential death.

They will not try to shove it down your throat. They will merely share their opinions. If you disagree with them they will tell you that they respect that, but they disagree. They will also make mistakes you know. :/ We are all human here.

I do not mean this is a converting message. not in the slightest. Simply as a mini attempt at clarification of what a Christian should look like versus what many Christians do and say. It is a shame. I do read my Bible. I do go to church. I do pray. I do believe in more than death. but I am NOT here to force that on you. that is your choice. I believe that there is a creator who cares for me specifically. Too good to be true? seems like it. That is part of the beauty. If you have any questions, please PM me, don't try to cut my legs from under me on the forum, as I have not tried to do the same to you.

Kindly, and always I High Elf fan

Amendil.

Matthew 28:18-20

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I would not blame you for forcing your faith on the rest of us, but you also have to understand that this is your job as a believing christian, if you deny that then you will probably be washing the dishes while I make food for the devil in the afterlife

[Shannar, Sealord]

Matthew 28:18-20

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I would not blame you for forcing your faith on the rest of us, but you also have to understand that this is your job as a believing christian, if you deny that then you will probably be washing the dishes while I make food for the devil in the afterlife

Making disciples and forcing your faith on someone are two very different things. In fact that would be about the least effective way to try to fulfill the great commission.

[Elros Amandil]

Reminds me of this post a few years ago.

[Aicanor]

Reminds me of a story a colleauge of mine used to tell. He is a historian and his dinner with a few friends (including a theologist) was interrupted by two unsuspecting Jehova's Witnesses. They invited them to the table and called another of his friends, a biblicist (one of those crazy individuals studying various ancient versions of bible in various languages and comparing them word by word, trying to come as close to the original text as possible). Together they then proceeded to tear apart everything the poor cultists tried to preach. The Witnesses tried hard to keep up, but eventually they failed their leadership roll and fled the field.
Not as cool as Slaaneshi version, but I guess they had some fun as well (not the sectarians obviously).

I have used various strategies in the past, but they are usually completely put out when I anounce that yes, this is all very interesting, but I like metal better. That is bound to create some confusion. Those I talked at some length with though were invariably misguided individuals with strange opinions rather than 'apostles' educated in their own faith. I am not a Christian, not really, but know more about Christianity than most of them anyway (this can, of course vary in different countries, here, atheism is a norm).

[Asurion Whitestar]

Reminds me of a story a colleauge of mine used to tell. He is a historian and his dinner with a few friends (including a theologist) was interrupted by two unsuspecting Jehova's Witnesses. They invited them to the table and called another of his friends, a biblicist (one of those crazy individuals studying various ancient versions of bible in various languages and comparing them word by word, trying to come as close to the original text as possible). Together they then proceeded to tear apart everything the poor cultists tried to preach. The Witnesses tried hard to keep up, but eventually they failed their leadership roll and fled the field.
Not as cool as Slaaneshi version, but I guess they had some fun as well (not the sectarians obviously).

I have used various strategies in the past, but they are usually completely put out when I anounce that yes, this is all very interesting, but I like metal better. That is bound to create some confusion. Those I talked at some length with though were invariably misguided individuals with strange opinions rather than 'apostles' educated in their own faith. I am not a Christian, not really, but know more about Christianity than most of them anyway (this can, of course vary in different countries, here, atheism is a norm).

Could I ask why someone would be "crazy" to seek truth?

I'm one of those whom seeks truth.
The current day bible is one of those works that has been re-translated so many times it has lost most of its original intent and meaning.

To any Christians or any subsidiaries (although not less important religions) that are here please tell me if you know who Yoshua is (or Yeshua or any other spellings)?
Be truthful, don't just say yes after you've googled the name.
I for one was raised Anglican, but I was never taught about Yoshua, who he was, nor what he actually did.

In the past almost 2 decades I've classified myself as an atheist, but that's not so true anymore.
I'm now a very spiritual being, not to be confused with someone who is religious, I'm not religious but a spiritualist. But I believe in most of our ancient history as plainly false, at least what we're currently being taught in schools. More and more physical evidence is being uncovered recently that proves my beliefs (although belief I feel is the wrong word as it implies the possiblity of being incorrect, I know; knowledge would be a more suitable word to use).

For instance:
An ancient 2000 year old computer that was calibrated exactly to our neighbouring stars and planetary bodies.

Ancient human bones that are closely related to us have been found that are 400,000 years old, an impossibility within current evolutionary "fact/theory".

Coral Castle, although not new but evidence none the less.

Witricity is something relatively new to our media, but the technology was invented at the turn of the previous century by Nikola Tesla, he had working devices and thousands of plans to bring free electricity to the world, wirelessly. Along with gravity defying vehicles.


All of these barely scratch the surface.

I know most people would look at me as a conspiracy theorist, I'd prefer the coin radical thinker or truth seeker. As the media has labeled conspiracy theorists crazy.
Even my (ex)wife thinks I'm crazy and into cults and immoral things when it simply isn't true, nor is it remotely close to what I believe/know.
I'm labeled as crazy by the only person I thought I could spend the rest of my life with...
Just because I try and explain something that she doesn't understand, because I don't believe what I'm told to believe before I have researched it myself, because of things like Scientology getting bad and slanderous publicity, not that I'm a Scientologist, I'm a Theosophite (Theosophical Society) if I had to choose. I'm crazy because I believe in supernatural things, or extraterrestrial things, or alternate history.
Now I can't imagine being with someone whom isn't awake.


Sorry for ranting..

[Prince of Spires]

Could I ask why someone would be "crazy" to seek truth?

I think (though I could be wrong of course) that the crazy was not referring to the reading the bible part and trying to find the meaning of it but to the amount of work and digging involved in finding differences. In the same way as I would label someone as crazy when he read through different editions of lord of the rings and finds all the different words and spellings between editions.

As for ancient history et. all, I think false is too strong a term. Incomplete is more likely. And based on limited or circumstantial evidence.

But that doesn't necessarily invalidate or falsify the whole set. It just means there are gaps in there we know nothing about yet.

Rod

[Asurion Whitestar]

Could I ask why someone would be "crazy" to seek truth?

I think (though I could be wrong of course) that the crazy was not referring to the reading the bible part and trying to find the meaning of it but to the amount of work and digging involved in finding differences. In the same way as I would label someone as crazy when he read through different editions of lord of the rings and finds all the different words and spellings between editions.

As for ancient history et. all, I think false is too strong a term. Incomplete is more likely. And based on limited or circumstantial evidence.

But that doesn't necessarily invalidate or falsify the whole set. It just means there are gaps in there we know nothing about yet.

Rod

Is that not was I was referring to in the first place? :3
The reading of the Bible isn't crazy, nor is trying to find the true meaning of it, regardless of the amount of work that you need to do.

Ancient history is incomplete of course, but wrong most of the time. We are taught theories as fact, which is wrong, immorally and factually.

Egypt in particular, the great pyramid of Giza, why wouldn't we be taught that it houses several mathematical impossibilities; the speed of light would be my biggest gripe.
Of course not even touching on how they were built, cut and their true purpose.
Stone Henge, the Easter Island heads, the pathways of Atlantis, the occult research of Hitler, the repressed works of Tesla, the true age of the human race.

[Dalamar]

What speed of light imposibility of the pyramids? My father is an egyptologist and I can certainly run it through him.
Its well know how they were built, there's no mystery there anymore. Or should I say, we've come up with a few theories on how they could've been built using the technology we believe ancient egyptians possessed and they would all do the trick.
Stone henge is still a mystery, which is fine, leaves something for new generations, but moving easter island heads is easy. I saw a video the other day of a large group of people moving one with nothing but ropes and coordination.

Never heard of the "pathway of atlantis" what is it about? And not touching Hitler's occult research, I don't believe there are any documents showing any actual results on that path.

As for Tesla, it's a sad example of corporate greed, nothing more.

[Aicanor]

What Rod said, I didn't use "crazy" as a derogatory term. Just alluded at the amount of detail work that comes into this branch of study.

... But I believe in most of our ancient history as plainly false, at least what we're currently being taught in schools. More and more physical evidence is being uncovered recently that proves my beliefs (although belief I feel is the wrong word as it implies the possiblity of being incorrect, I know; knowledge would be a more suitable word to use).

Yes, we know precious little about ancient history and what we know can be and often is interpreted in a way new evidence can easily prove as incorrect. As a matter of fact, we know little about quite recent events as well. Just from what you wrote here it can be deduced you are near 100% wrong as well, of course, as there will always be too much unknown. That is good to remember when seeking 'truth' in such (and any) matters. We can get as close to it as possible, but can never claim we are absolutely right. Science is a tool, not means to an end, not a belief, not something to live or die by, just a tool of getting knowledge, evaluating it and describing it in comprehensive way.
It is not that you are lied to, just the knowledge develops and theories change with it. Not all the 'evidence' is plausible though as fakes and wild claims are around just as long as scientific research. Probably far longer than that.

[Asurion Whitestar]

What speed of light imposibility of the pyramids? My father is an egyptologist and I can certainly run it through him.
Its well know how they were built, there's no mystery there anymore. Or should I say, we've come up with a few theories on how they could've been built using the technology we believe ancient egyptians possessed and they would all do the trick.
Stone henge is still a mystery, which is fine, leaves something for new generations, but moving easter island heads is easy. I saw a video the other day of a large group of people moving one with nothing but ropes and coordination.

Never heard of the "pathway of atlantis" what is it about? And not touching Hitler's occult research, I don't believe there are any documents showing any actual results on that path.

As for Tesla, it's a sad example of corporate greed, nothing more.

That's exciting, well the speed of light number is gotten when you draw a circle around the outside of the pyramid so that the corners touch the interior of the circle, then draw another circle completely within the interior so that it's edges touch the pyramid's walls. Then take the circumference of the smaller/interior circle away from the larger/exterior, you get a number almost exact to the speed of light and I'd wager that more precise measurements from when the pyramid was complete would give a more precise number.
All of this is in meters as well iirc, as we know ancient Egyptians used the cubit so that's strange.

There are also several more mathematical marvels within the pyramid that I dare not to explain as I'm a little out of practice as it were, I can't quite remember where each correlates with each.

But another little fact, apart from the proportions of the Sphinx being out, it has horizontal erosion lines at its rear, but the last great flood that could have done such a thing was 12000 years ago..!? Well before the rise and golden age of the Egyptians.
There's evidence to suggest they also had batteries and light bulbs.

All of the world's man made wonders are also built across the same equatorial line, although this line runs askew.


Could I ask what are the current theories of building techniques and tools?
I love ancient civilisations and Egypt is one of my favourites.

[Asurion Whitestar]

What Rod said, I didn't use "crazy" as a derogatory term. Just alluded at the amount of detail work that comes into this branch of study.

... But I believe in most of our ancient history as plainly false, at least what we're currently being taught in schools. More and more physical evidence is being uncovered recently that proves my beliefs (although belief I feel is the wrong word as it implies the possiblity of being incorrect, I know; knowledge would be a more suitable word to use).

Yes, we know precious little about ancient history and what we know can be and often is interpreted in a way new evidence can easily prove as incorrect. As a matter of fact, we know little about quite recent events as well. Just from what you wrote here it can be deduced you are near 100% wrong as well, of course, as there will always be too much unknown. That is good to remember when seeking 'truth' in such (and any) matters. We can get as close to it as possible, but can never claim we are absolutely right. Science is a tool, not means to an end, not a belief, not something to live or die by, just a tool of getting knowledge, evaluating it and describing it in comprehensive way.
It is not that you are lied to, just the knowledge develops and theories change with it. Not all the 'evidence' is plausible though as fakes and wild claims are around just as long as scientific research. Probably far longer than that.

It's okay, I understand. I was once in the same boat. :3

I think it's not so much that we are lied to, even though that's what it boils down to, but that we are not told about alternative theories and facts, that our teachers are told and taught the same thing as us so even they don't know all the facts and theories.
This just keeps the human race dumb and on a strict path of drip-fed knowledge. We should be taught all such beliefs/theories and should be left to decide ourselves.

Sacred geometry is something that is incredibly linked to every ancient civilisation. Why on earth are we not taught about it.

Why would we not be taught about frequencies that are inscribed and engraved into ancient walls and floors. How could ancient humans know what the frequencies even look like.
http://youtu.be/AS67HA4YMCs
Just to show basically what I mean.


Then from the other side of the coin, being the future.
Why are we not going to the moon any more, why are a large percentage of the satellites that obit earth not pointing towards earth but out into space where nothing apparently is, why does Saturn have a hexagon 52km wide on its polar south, why and how are there straight geometric shapes on two of its moons, why are we not told about the several dwarf planets and Exo planets that are in our solar system?

[Dalamar]

Ok, I would need to research more about this because technically you can draw any two circles and make them come up with an approximation of the speed of light. It's creating facts to match a theory. Considering it's in meters makes it sound even more bogus. It's like ghost hunters episode where the ghost hunters were "communicating" with a ghost of a pharaoh... in American English.

I agree there are a few things about the pyramids that we don't know. But that's the thing. We don't know. There are some wild theories but none of them have been proven so far. Generally I noticed all the "alternative history" theories boil down to a "what if?" question, which is fine for a brain teaser. But, they never show any solid science behind them.

Horizontal erosion lines? in a desert? unheard of! No, really. Are these lines absolutely proven to be water caused, or were they eroded by sandstorms which tend to blow horizontally?

Batteries and light bulbs... yeah. Rudimentary battery is super easy to make, but having a battery and having a use for a battery is two very different things. It is thought those batteries were used to induce electrical shocks for medical purposes as they were incapable of sustaining a current. Pretty much until Faraday. I would like to see some article about those ancient lightbulbs.

About the equatorial line. The climate happened to be the friendliest to civilization at the time. Nice, warm, multiple harvest seasons. That's where civilization grew and had an opportunity to build wonders. If we find something clearly constructed under the antarctic ice once it all melts, now that would be a discovery. But we already radar mapped that area so it's highly unlikely.

The most popular theory is that the blocks were rolled on wooden logs, and raised to the pyramid on sand mounts constructed around the pyramid. Yeah, it's time consuming process and there's a reason a pharaoh commissioned a pyramid really early into his reign. There's also a new theory (supported by actual Egyptian murals, go figure) that they simply pulled those stones on wet sand which produced a whole lot less resistance than dry sand. Not to mention the blocks themselves were very easily transported up the Nile on ships as close to the construction site as possible.

When it comes to the shape of frequencies... honestly, our brains receive them all the time. I was drawing shapes like that when I was bored when I was 6 or 7. I had no clue what frequencies are. Maybe our brain can interpret them into shapes and we can subconsciously visualize them? Who knows. To ancient humans it may have seemed like a pretty design for all we know.

Keep in mind there are more people that want to make you believe what they want you to believe than people who want you to learn to think for yourself. When you think for yourself you're much harder to manipulate.

Why aren't we going to the moon anymore? This one is simple. Nobody wants to pay for it. Cold War is over, there's no need for space race and nobody has come up with an efficient way to fly to the moon, mine Helium3 and bring it back to earth... not to mention to use Helium3 in the first place.
Why are we looking into space? Hell, it's not even remotely empty. There's so much out there we are barely even beginning to comprehend, and what we think we comprehend is like a newborn learning to crawl. Not to mention all the near earth asteroids... it's nice to have an early warning.

Hexagon on Saturn? I have no clue. I won't pretend I know anything about astrophysics. But apparently scientists have been able to reproduce the exact same effect in a lab by varying rotational speeds (which are in fact occuring on Saturn, it's spinning slower at the poles than at the equator)

As for the exoplanets? Where are they? I have heard a few claims of exoplanets within our solar system... but nobody was ever able to produce any proof of one or two existing. An amateur telescope can get you as far as Pluto on a clear day. Where are those exoplanets hiding that we can't find them?

I follow these "alternative theories" from time to time but not a single one of them was ever able to produce a proof that can be tested and repeated and tested again (the kind of proof that is necessary to accept something as a scientific theory). Until I see some tangible proof they will remain in the realm of "what if?" and "cool!, wish it was true!"

[Aicanor]

It's okay, I understand. I was once in the same boat. :3

Actually, we are not in the same boat at all. I was taught lots of alternative theories. Enough that they started to invalidate each other. Makes you realize they need the same treatment and validation as any other theory in existence. Science is the best tool we have for doing this. I was even exposed to some of the esoteric 'practicals'. Not at any point was I what you can call an atheist, and I am not to these days, but if that experience taught me something, it was question everything, learn what you can and think for yourself.

As for the sound frequencies, ever heard of Pythagoras? Perhaps if you got deep enough into physics and mathematics deep enough you would realize that we are not actually 'not told these things'. It is not my field of knowledge though.
As for exoplanets, there can be none of then in the solar system as they are defined by not being part of it (hence the exo part of their name). Just on the margin of Dalamar's reply.

[Loflar]

Ancient history is incomplete of course, but wrong most of the time. We are taught theories as fact, which is wrong, immorally and factually.

This is IMHO the interesting point. As others wrote, the facts and evidence we know for sure are very limited. On the other hand, they are boring and hard to interpret. For example, if children at school had to learn proven facts about ancient Egypt, they would learn lists of items found in various excavations, probably together with results of carbon dating ... Actually they could not learn about carbon dating, because carbon dating method is based on quantum physics, which is just a theory. So instead of carbon dating, they would have to learn results of experiments with spectral lines etc.

Theories are necessary to compose known facts into understandable narrative, which we need, because we think in narratives. And we often approximate, because we don't have enough facts (e.g.: The tiger has disappeared behind the bushes on the right side and he did not appear on the left side, so he is probably behind the bushes. We cannot tell for sure without going there to see, but going there might be fatal. Better safe then sorry.)

Yes, theories are taught to children as facts. Terry Pratchett called it in his popular scientific books "lies to children". There is a good reason for it. Children start with knowing nothing, and first they have to learn to learn and learn to understand. If you start by telling them about theory of relativity and where it fails, they will not know what you are talking about. Instead children first learn that ground is below and sky above and that things fall down. Then they learn that Earth is a sphere orbiting Sun and that things fall to the center of gravity. And so on. This way, the children first learn what they practically need, and later refine it up to the point where those, who are likely to advance our knowledge further, learn about its limits.

Anyway, if our knowledge about ancient history is so limited, how do you know that it is wrong?

[Asurion Whitestar]

Well, with most theoretical histories, wouldn't they all be a "what if" scenario.
Which would include the current leading theories of how the pyramids were built.

So while on this topic.
How were they cut so straight, and aligned so well that even current modern day building technology would have a hard time keeping up with it? Especially on a scale as large as the great pyramid.

Yes the erosion on the sphinx is caused by water.

A quick search for ancient Egyptian light bulbs will show a lot of reading material, some of which will "prove" to debunk the theory, the same as the others will "prove" it fact.

Technically yes you could draw two circles and come up with any number at all, providing that they are the correct size. So why does the great pyramid contain this, in meters...? I could be incorrect but the main chamber also contains phi.

The equatorial line.. How could several civilisations who have no contact with each other all build super scale or near impossible buildings all across the world that when mapped out are all across the same line?

The Hexagon on Saturn was created in lab by directing frequencies into a stable flow of current to mimic the currents on Saturn.

[Aicanor]

Loflar, thanks for writing that down. I was very hesitant to get into it.

How were they cut so straight, and aligned so well that even current modern day building technology would have a hard time keeping up with it? Especially on a scale as large as the great pyramid.

Egyptian straight lines were no less straight than ours. I think we just do not give enough credit to our forefathers' and foremothers' skills and knowledge. Not just Egyptians'. Plus, they had time. But it would be very good to hear an Egyptologist's view on actual or perceived perfection of the pyramids.

Technically yes you could draw two circles and come up with any number at all, providing that they are the correct size. So why does the great pyramid contain this, in meters...?

Because someone spent some time to fit it in, tweaked it a little, stated that the measurments are not as precise as they would be at the time of the pyramid's creation when it didn't fit perfectly enough?
As for geometry and astronomy, it actually wouldn't surprise me if the Egyptians had the knowledge needed. They built that pyramid after all and they didn't need our representation of those numbers we have now to use the same principles. Yes, why not?

By the way, modern definition of a metre has been defined as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second". It is not original definition of it though.
Now we are starting to get into real circles.

[Asurion Whitestar]

Loflar, thanks for writing that down. I was very hesitant to get into it.

Plus one. :3
Thanks for the detailed reply.


@Aicanor
On the pyramids, they didn't have that much time.
The great pyramid was built in 20 years, by all records etc etc..
But this is from a culture that only had copper chisels and stone mallets (which is basically a copper rod with a point and a rock).

[Prince of Spires]

That's exciting, well the speed of light number is gotten when you draw a circle around the outside of the pyramid so that the corners touch the interior of the circle, then draw another circle completely within the interior so that it's edges touch the pyramid's walls. Then take the circumference of the smaller/interior circle away from the larger/exterior, you get a number almost exact to the speed of light and I'd wager that more precise measurements from when the pyramid was complete would give a more precise number.
All of this is in meters as well iirc, as we know ancient Egyptians used the cubit so that's strange.

I have several problems with this kind of reasoning about why ancient egyptians are awesome.
- for the outcome to make any sense it depends heavily on current day units. Units which were unknown by egyptians I might add. Simply put, if a minute would be divided into 100 seconds instead of 60 seconds then the number would make no sense at all. The second as we know it today would not be introduced until after 1000AD. So if ancient Egyptians would have been able to measure the speed of light, the number they would have gotten would be a very different number from what it is today.

- by manipulating any set of random numbers to get another random number you can prove pretty much anything. I've read an article (in dutch unfortunately), where the author did something similar, but then with the hallway in his house. He was able to map the entire human history into his hallway with visible points (doorways, lamps, carpet etc) marking important events. Something similar has been done in pyramids as well. But trick is of course to only use matching events and chose a scale that matches your findings.

- A correlation does not prove causality. This kind of flows from the previous 2 points. Just because two numbers give another number does not mean that that was the reason they were put there. Or that is was actually put there. There is no cause and effect in a correlation between simple numbers. If you want an example of this, check http://www.tylervigen.com/ where strong correlations are shown between 2 entities that have nothing to do with each other. For instance, there is a strong correlations http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703 between margerine consumption in the US and the divorce rate of Maine. That does not mean that they are actually related.

As a side note, it is very well possible they incorporated pi in the pyramid somewhere. Pi was known as a number is ancient egypt (though they were off by a few %). And given its properties they could well have considered it a special number.

Rod

[Asurion Whitestar]

The points that the pyramid gives the speed of light in meters is exactly the point I'm trying to make. It couldn't possibly be the case from what we know about ancient Egypt, so something else is at play..

Also, I'm sure pi is in there somewhere, but I'm talking about phi, the golden ratio, the god number etc..


But aside from all the pyramid talk.
Has anyone heard of the Emerald Tablets?

[Prince of Spires]

My point about the pyramids speed of light thing was that it is a pure coincidence. Where looking for some significance in random numbers produces another random number. You can always find some special number in pretty much any place you want if you take two numbers and perform a mathematical operation of your choosing on them.

What is the significance of the interior and the exterior circle? Why take the difference of the circumference instead of adding them together? Why not use the radius? As long as there is no specific reason a-priory (so without knowing what you want the outcome to be) to use these sets and these values then it is just a random coincidence that was found by someone looking for it. Which means there is no meaning in the number. It then is just exactly the same as that trick where with a set of mathematical operations you get someones birthday. There are several versions of this, but something like:

Step 1) Have them take the month number from their birthday: January = 1, Feb = 2 etc.
Step 2) Multiply that by 5
Step 3) Then add 6
Step 4) Then multiply that total by 4
Step 5) Then add 9
Step 6) Then multiply this total by 5 once again
Step 7) Finally, have them add to that total the day they were born on. If they were born on the 18th, they add 18, etc.

Have them give you the total. In your head or on a piece of paper, subtract 165 from the number they give you, and you will have the month and day they were born on!

It works, but that doesn't mean that there is any magic in the numbers.

I misunderstood you about phi. Sorry. I suppose it's very possible that the ancient egyptians knew about it. Wikipedia at least informs me that ancient greeks knew about it 2400 years ago. It is of course equally possible that they simply went with what looked nice. And that is one of the things the golden ratio is and may have led to the "discovery" of the golden ratio...

Never heard of the emerald tablets. They look interesting (on wikipedia...) What about them?

Rod

[Dalamar]

I also fail to see the significance of emerald tablets. Somebody wrote something a long time ago. Age doesnt make ut true. People used to write the earth was flat. People wrote the holy books. It doesn't make them true.

[Asurion Whitestar]

I also fail to see the significance of emerald tablets.

This, is in effect a very powerful statement to someone's state of mind/being.

I believe that most of the things that I've mentioned already are linked to the Emerald Tablets, or is at least at their core somewhat related to them or something that stemmed from them in someway.


The problem I face is that most people simply look at the information and think, "oh, it's a coincidence", or "that's cool", not really giving it a second thought. It's in this, that most people stop, but those that see something there or feel that what their being taught and told is fishy or just doesn't sit right with themselves and their instincts etc search for more information as to why it is and why the next thing is and so on. Then with more and more things tying together in unexpected ways it becomes clearer.

What I believe: (at least in some part or correlation)
Consciousness
The Consciousness
Species wide consciousness
We are not alone in the universe (or on this planet)
Aliens
Ancient aliens/astronauts
Pyramid "power"
Crystals
Spirituality
Other dimensions, in particular those that run parallel to our own.
Higher dimensions
Sacred geometry
Evolution and creationism (yes, both, simultaneously)
New world order (or rather that there are those that wish it fuition)
Secret organisations and societies
The existence of the human (and every living thing, along with trees) soul
Third eye (Pineal gland)
Chakras
Mind over matter
Emerald tablets
Reincarnation
Spirit Science
Soul mates/kindred spirits (these are the souls/beings that like each other and seek each other out)
Awareness/being awake (enlightened, to some)
Frequencies
Emotion altering frequencies
Healing frequencies
Healing abilities (often referred to as alternative therapies, along with healing frequencies)
Indigos (along with their counterparts)
Human history spanning back hundreds of thousands of years
Atlantis (amongst other "fictional" ancient civilisations and places/beings/objects)

And these are just the topics that barely even scratch the surface.

[Dalamar]

I think what you're failing to see, is that all these "significant" correlations that you do see, have not been at any point proven in any way.

In other words anyone can come up with a new idea, then figure out a way to fit it into another idea and finally present it as a "proof".
But the order here is very important and it's skewed

Idea - experiment modeled to fit the idea - "proof"

It's a faulty way to approach any scientific experiment and will be debunked immediately. The correct order is

Idea - experiment to disprove the idea - if idea is disproved a single time it's discarded as faulty.

As for these emerald tablets:
1. Nobody has seen their original form (red flag #1)
2. People have to depend on multiple, vastly different translations (red flag #2)
3. Even translated, the tablets present philosophical concepts, not hard science and as such are open to interpretation. (red flag #3)

And by the way. Lead has been successfully turned to gold in a lab already. It was vastly underwhelming and inefficient.

Out of the entire list you believe in. How many things can you present to someone else and convince them to it by using the scientific method?

[Prince of Spires]

To be fair, I never said I failed to see the significance of the emerald tablets, I just said I'd never heard of them and so don't have an opinion about them either way.

As for some of the other things

Not being alone in the universe is pretty much a certainty. You can calculate the number of civilizations possible in the universe (for instance using the Drake equation). It's just a matter of big numbers. There are a few hundred billion stars out there (or even galaxies out there). The chance that none of them will have intelligent life is miniscule.

Of course, that is very different from getting in contact with them. Space is very very very big. And traveling between stars is hard. I would say much harder then SciFi movies make it seem.

Which always makes me wonder, if aliens are here on earth, what are they doing here? And why haven't they made themselves known? Or just taken over the whole thing? A race capable of space travel can easily do that. No independence day scenarios are likely. For them just to be here and not do anything would be similar to someone flying to Tokyo (which is a long way for me at least), spending a day at the airport staring at a blank wall and then flying back.

As for some of the other things, I always keep the last of Clarke's laws in mind: "any sufficiently advanced technology will end up being indistinguishable from magic". Just because we don't understand why or how something works does not mean that there is no logical explanation for it. Which doesn't mean that I believe in all things (or any of them) listed. But it does mean that I don't dismiss them out of hand.

As for the coincidence of pyramid numbers, I think Dalamar gave a good explanation of why I consider them a coincidence. There is a very big list of scientific numbers out there you can chose from as an outcome. Anything from Speed of light to circumference of the earth to distance from the sun to e (the natural number version) or Avogadro's number or ... I can probably list a few hundred if I have a think about it.

Then, what is done is that 2 or more unrelated numbers are taken and an unrelated mathematical operation is performed on it to produce one of these numbers. But no explanation is given why these specific numbers are taken, why this specific mathematical operation is chosen or why this outcome is received. In this way, you can gain pretty much any number you want to show whatever you want. It's not something that was placed in there by the builders. It's something that was construed by whoever came up with the idea that some magical number was in there. I can probably do the same thing with a tape measure and my backyard. Just give me a number and I'll show my backyard can return it.

Rod