French politics

[EricJ]

Hi guys.

As some of you might or might not know, there's been some political turbulence down in western Europe lately, regarding some laws that the French have implemented, or will implement. Up here in northern Sweden, I strongly suspect the news are.. shall we say.. biased. I'm trying to build myself a clear picture of what's going on, and to do that I need the help of you French people.

Because from here, it looks like this:

- The new HADOPI law you've got: people say French ISPs will disconnect people from the internet after three warnings of suspected illegal activity. There are no courts involved here, are there? People think you're guilty and *chop*? Is this really the case? How do you motivate such a procedure?
- Supposedly, if you don't agree to having your internet connection shut down, you can agree to have surveillance software installed on your computer that monitors your daily activities and makes sure you ain't doing something you shouldn't. Is this true? Isn't this a horrible breach of people's privacy?
- This new Loppsi 2-law (as it's supposedly called) seems to require ISPs to only forward "approved" content. Is this different from the famous internet censorship of China? If so, how?
- The same law seems to allow a complete database of the citizens to be created, containing all sorts of personal information. Do you really think this is a good idea? Please explain.

I'd appreciate any and all feedback from anyone who can explain to me how and why these laws are needed in France. Thank you.

[Musashi]

1. One theory is that Sarkozy's wife is behind this.

2. The French laws will come into conflict with current EU trends - guess who'll win.

[Ramesesis]

Well, it will be difficult to say since the French are... the French. Not known for giving in easily. So if they decide to slug it out against the rest of us, it will take some time!

Well, I must say that that french law makes our own pesky FRA law and other restriction in connection to net piracy and such look like bleeding liberal soft cushion.
I mean, when push comes to shove at least we got a legal system and parliamentary checks built into the system, no matter how insufficient it may seem to some (I find some checks stupid since it makes it harder for the police to investigate organized crime, but bleeding liberals are not scared of organized crime much...)
Anyway, if this is the start of a trend, Sweden will still look like an internet paradise in comparision!

But the french are an interesting bunch. They either go stark raving reactionary slaming down laws and regulation all over the place, then some gaulish farmer or student decendant of from frankish warriors just snaps and the country rises in revolution.

Man, you gotta love the french. And if the french are as sensitive to their privacy as swedes are, there will be rebellion soon enough.

[Andruillius]

What I'm wondering about is the effect this law would have upon consumers' choice of ISP. Surely people wouldn't continue using a company that shows itself as an active internet policeman?

[langbaobao]

My opinion is that music and video autor rights companies will, from now on, point to this law as an example of 'how it should be done' and try to impose it in other places. I on the other hand see a simple solution to this. The p2p software authors will just have to step up the efforts to include strong encription in the p2p protocols...

[findel]

But the french are an interesting bunch. They either go stark raving reactionary slaming down laws and regulation all over the place, then some gaulish farmer or student decendant of from frankish warriors just snaps and the country rises in revolution.

I haven't seen any crowd in the street for that law. It takes something touching everybody like nationalise public services to make the mob move and frightened the government.

I on the other hand see a simple solution to this. The p2p software authors will just have to step up the efforts to include strong encription in the p2p protocols...

This the right answer, most of heavy downloader I know are already only using encrypted newsgroup and there are of course right now others encrypted P2P.

But will the ISP will be willing to loose clients (those heavy downloader, since they are the only target here) in order to apply the law? We'll see.

[EricJ]

What I'm wondering about is the effect this law would have upon consumers' choice of ISP.

I suppose when the choice is between only visiting approved sites, contacting approved people etc and not using the internet at all, people go with the former. ISPs might not like the way things are going, but they're bound by law just as anyone else.

Related YouTube-video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIA0jeW-24

[nawker]

1. One theory is that Sarkozy's wife is behind this.

We owe the law to Denis Olivennes, (typically french) former high civil servant, he became the boss of some large companies.
The amount of technical nonsense he threw at us in the various tv/radio/newspaper interviews is quite impressing, he's determined to defend this law, even if he must be totally ridiculled.

His belonging to the intelligentsia got him the support of many an artist (usually labelled as left wingers), who blindly support this idea.
Lately, they also began to wildly criticize websites such as deezer, (allowing you to listen to whatever song you want, obviously for free) or video content uploaded on youtube, for being an obvious failure and not making enough money. Behind this lie a quite disturbing ideology, stating, among other things, that culture must not be free.

This whole repression of illegal download of film and music is based on the belief that the drop in selling is mainly due to piracy (which can be discussed), and that 100% of piracy is caused by people downloading content from their home. What of the outrageous amount of money made by people selling copied dvd's in south east asia ? or the fact that piracy is becoming much more interesting for Mafia and terrorist organisation, compared to drug trafficking or prostitution ?
(I suppose that if you want to bully somebody, you will choose people who are not much of a threat to you...)

What I'm wondering about is the effect this law would have upon consumers' choice of ISP. Surely people wouldn't continue using a company that shows itself as an active internet policeman?

This is why ISP are really reluctant to apply this law, and will turn to whatever other solution can be found.

As some of you might or might not know, there's been some political turbulence down in western Europe lately, regarding some laws that the French have implemented, or will implement. Up here in northern Sweden, I strongly suspect the news are.. shall we say.. biased. I'm trying to build myself a clear picture of what's going on, and to do that I need the help of you French people.

I do think that most of the French you will find on the internet will wholy disapprove.
I expect swedish media to strongly support these laws.

Because from here, it looks like this:

- The new HADOPI law you've got: people say French ISPs will disconnect people from the internet after three warnings of suspected illegal activity. There are no courts involved here, are there? People think you're guilty and *chop*? Is this really the case? How do you motivate such a procedure?

The whole point of the law is to turn what was a simple misdeameanor into an "infraction administrative", up to now, you have to be identified by police, brought before a judge, who will decide what to do of you. This obviously takes time and money, and cannot be done on a large scale. This change will make the judge part unnecessary, hence allowing "repression" on a really large scale. (I remember the government had as an objective to do 1 milion disconnection the first year.)

[Andruillius]

Shouldn't your nick be leurbran instead or something, that would be cooler.

[Loflar]

From available information it seems, that you Swedes can vote for Pirate Party this weekend, so you now have a chance to do something about it.

[EricJ]

"Legal Authority Kills French Three Strikes Law".

... France’s highest constitutional authority today ruled that Internet access is a fundamental human right ...

Good riddance.

[Andruillius]

I kinda like those guys.

[nawker]

I thought i should add some details : you can still be fined for illegally downloading copyrighted material, but now, the decision is up to a judge (who has more important matter to deal with), meaning that they won't fullfil their goal of fining every single "pirate" in the country.