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 Post subject: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:42 am 
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I never really played the 8th edition Warhammer, but I am planning to play it soon.
I have a dubt on the number of attacks that can be done in CC.
I make an example:
Unit 1 = 20 men and I=3, A=1
Unit 2 = 20 men and I=2, A=2

so, assuming they both attack with 2 ranks, Unit 1 attack first and make 5 casualties.
How many models can the Unit 2 use to attack? Still 10, or 10-5 casualties? if they can use 5 models only, which will attack? The front one (so 2 attacks each) or the second rank, (only 1 attack for support)?

Thank you in advance

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 Post subject: Re: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:10 am 
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Going with your questions

Unit 1 = A
Unit 2 = B
Assume they are 5x4 i.e see below
AAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAA
BBBBB
BBBBB
BBBBB
BBBBB

Assuming 2 normal units only up to 2 ranks can fight (weapons and some armies have special rules that changes this).

AAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAA <---
AAAAA <---
BBBBB <---
BBBBB <---
BBBBB
BBBBB

Only those 2 ranks from each respective side can attack

Unit 1 (aka Unit A) goes first because they have higher I and does 5 wounds to Unit 2 (aka Unit B)

AAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAA
BBBBB
BBBBB
BBBBB
XXXXX <-- Wounds done

Unit 2 (aka Unit B) can still attack with 10 guys due to the "Step Up" rule. As wounds are done and guys die in the front, Rank and File "Step Up" to fill their place therefore casualties are taken from the last rank(s) to simulate this.

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 Post subject: Re: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:55 am 
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Ok thank you.

So, following your example, if I have the situation where I only have 10 model per unit, but with the same result (5 casualties) I should have the following result:

Unit A
AAAA <--- 1A each model
AAAA <--- 1A each model
BBBB <--- 2A each model that strike back
XXXX

is that right?

So basically Swordmasters or White Lions (which are elite) vs simple Dark Elves Spears or Whitch Elves would loose badly having ASF right?

In addition, DE have ASF+Hate but they re-roll only once in the first turn right?
and
ASF vs ASF = no re-roll, but with hate DE still re-roll the first round

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 Post subject: Re: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:10 am 
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Marsyon wrote:
Ok thank you.

So, following your example, if I have the situation where I only have 10 model per unit, but with the same result (5 casualties) I should have the following result:

Unit A
AAAA <--- 1A each model
AAAA <--- 1A each model
BBBB <--- 2A each model that strike back
XXXX

is that right?

So basically Swordmasters or White Lions (which are elite) vs simple Dark Elves Spears or Whitch Elves would loose badly having ASF right?

In addition, DE have ASF+Hate but they re-roll only once in the first turn right?
and
ASF vs ASF = no re-roll, but with hate DE still re-roll the first round

Correct

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 Post subject: Re: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:15 am 
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ok, thank you for your clarification. Now everyhting looks ok to me but, as a side note (please pass me this only one comment), it's a bit sad that SM and WL loose vs base units with ASF.. :(
I mean.. at the end they cost 13 points, and the Executioners 12 ), or Witch ELves 11... it seems DE have a great advantage vs HE

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 Post subject: Re: Casualties during CC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:19 am 
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It's generally true that elf infantry with GW's get hosed by those without. This is true of Wildwood Rangers for example. Normally striking at I5 is good enough and then you have a good chance of hitting on 3's with those high strength attacks. Just not usually against elves.

Dark elf infantry do indeed have inbuilt advantages vs HE's with one-round Hatred and Murderous Prowess. Witch Elves are the worst because of their mass of re-rolling Poisoned attacks. In general they really only struggle against armour. Executioners are a bit iffy. They'll beat Lions but vs Swordmasters it's not quite so clear. Phoenix Guard will beat any DE foot except Witch Elves and even that can be swung by other factors.

Though generally, I feel the DE armies full of Fast Cav and Flyers are more dangerous.

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