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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Hi,

I had a situation in the game where my opponent had his greyseer in a unit locked in combat with an eagle. Another unit, his slaves, was in combat with my Archers and Loremaster. My opponent claims he can cast dreaded 13th spell in this situation, where he is in combat and at my Archers.

Can you provide page of any official or ETC ruling to either support that or disallow that?

Thanks in advance!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:59 am 
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Reading through the Skaven FAQ and Army Book, I see nothing that says he can't cast it from combat into combat as long as the caster has Line of Sight. I think it's supposed to be considered a Direct damage spell, but I'm not sure and there is nothing to back up that claim in the book.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:01 am 
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Here:

ETC FAQ 2015

3 Magic Phase:

3.5. Q: How do the old lores’ spells work with the general casting restrictions?

A: Unless specifically stated otherwise, they can’t be cast into combat, don’t require front arc or line of sight, and can target both friends and enemies.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:46 am 
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Cold Phoenix wrote:
Here:

ETC FAQ 2015

3 Magic Phase:

3.5. Q: How do the old lores’ spells work with the general casting restrictions?

A: Unless specifically stated otherwise, they can’t be cast into combat, don’t require front arc or line of sight, and can target both friends and enemies.


That's the etc FAQ though, only applies if you're playing that format.

You'd expect the spell to be direct damage but like much of the game it was never updated/faqed

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:23 am 
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Sackree wrote:
Cold Phoenix wrote:
Here:

ETC FAQ 2015

3 Magic Phase:

3.5. Q: How do the old lores’ spells work with the general casting restrictions?

A: Unless specifically stated otherwise, they can’t be cast into combat, don’t require front arc or line of sight, and can target both friends and enemies.


That's the etc FAQ though, only applies if you're playing that format.

You'd expect the spell to be direct damage but like much of the game it was never updated/faqed


Yes, and I would have said that if Swordmaster hadn't specifically asked:

Quote:
Can you provide page of any official or ETC ruling to either support that or disallow that?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:47 am 
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This question is really about two things.

Can dreaded 13 cast be in combat in general? -> I would say that no since it would follow the 4 basic restriction.

But then it comes to the slave question. Slaves allows ranged attacks to be done to the close combat with (and only slaves)... Well is spell ranged attack?

Term hasn't being used much in brb 8th but I found one refence that implies that spells are ranged attack. Page 491 has lore of fire description. Not very profound, but in absence of better way to determine this by raw I would take it ;)

To add to this mixture my personal RAI take is that slaves expandable rules should include magic. Basic idea why no shooting in cc is that you don't accidently hit your own troops. Slaves lifts this worry away thus why not shoot magic in to cc as well.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:16 am 
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A ranged spell is clearly a ranged attack ;)
Ranged attacks can be cast at units in combat with slaves (though not with other units).
With the Skaven FAQ you don't even have to randomize hits!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Hi guys,

Many thanks for the contribution! It is clearly one of these silly situations when GW wrote the rule that first, was not well described and second, was not updated with the 8th edition book or at least FAQ.

The way I approached the problem is as follows:

Check the spell description - it indeed says that it can target the enemy unit provided it is in 24" and in line of sight. No other restrictions are mentioned.

Unfortunately, there is no FAQ that qualifies that spell as one of the official types for 8th edition. I was actually convinced that it is a direct damage spell but it is not.

Since we were playing under ETC restrictions I looked for some guides in their FAQ. This is the same as Cold Phoenix was kind to quote (thank you!):

Quote:
3 Magic Phase:

3.5. Q: How do the old lores’ spells work with the general casting restrictions?

A: Unless specifically stated otherwise, they can’t be cast into combat, don’t require front arc or line of sight, and can target both friends and enemies.


Based on that I would say that since the description of the spell does not state otherwise, it cannot be cast into combat.

@ RE. Lee

Well, that depends how do you understand range attack :) It would have been fantastic if it was simply written "treat it as shooting attack" or something :) Interestingly, ranged attacks are defined under ETC FAQ under ... shooting phase.

Quote:
Q: What is a Ranged attack?

A: Any attack which can be done while not being locked in base contact with the target of the attack, including using a Breath Weapon outside of Close Combat.


In my opinion, the wording in the Skaven army book also hints that it talks about shooting attacks. Otherwise, why randomize hits?

Cheers!

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