Understanding Cover from an intervening unit
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Okay, a friend and I are arguing to the point of exhaustion. I wholly believe I am right, but obviously he has his own opinion about this, so I'm leaving this to you, the community.
First the rules (all on page 41 of the BRB):
1. COVER: If the majority of the models in the target unit (or, when firing against a single model, more than half of the target model) is obscured from the shooting model's view by other models (friend or enemy) or by terrain then an additional To Hit modifier is applied.
2. Target Behind Hard Cover: We also count intervening units as hard cover (if they obscure the line of sight to the majority of the target, of course) as their presence will play havoc with the shooters' accuracy. If the majority of a unit is obscured by such 'hard' terrain, it is said to be Hard Cover.
In the example photo:
3. The Giant (2) is more than half hidden by the building, so shots against it would suffer from a -2 penalty for hard cover.
4. Similarly, the Knights (3) would benefit from the -2 penalty for hard cover - which is the Swordsmen in this case.
"Majority" is defined as "more than half". So for argument's sake, let's just say "Majority" = 51% or more.
Situation: There is a unit of, say, 7 models. So for hard cover from an intervening unit:
Wisetiger's Requirements: 51% or more of the 7 models needs to be obscured regardless if 4 are 100% obscured and the other three aren't or 51% of each of the 7 models are obscured. The total 3 dimensional "footprint", if you will, of the target unit needs to be obscured from line of sight of the shooting model.
My friend (let's call him Assface, for this example, ya know, for anonymity's sake).
Assface's Requirements: As long as the majority of the models are at least 51% obscured, the unit gains cover. An example he gives would be if 4 of the 7 models were 85% obscured, and the rest weren't, that unit would get cover.
If we apply Wisetiger's examples to the situation of the 7 models, that being 51% of the unit (in whichever combination of concealment), then that unit meets the requirements set forth by Wisetiger (obviously).
It also meets the requirements for cover set forth by Assface.
Now if we apply Assface's example to the situation of the 7 models, that being 4/7 models are 85% obscured, and the rest aren't, then that unit meets the requirements set forth by Assface.
However, it does not meet the requirements set forth by Wisetiger. 4 of 7 models is 57%. If only 85% of those were obscured, only 48% of the target unit would be obscured. Wisetiger's requirement is 51% or more, or what is considered 'majority'.
Obviously, this is dependent upon the accuracy of the naked eye, of "line of sight" and stooping down to your model's eye level, etc. Now, I tend to be a friendly player with good sportsmanship. So If I see a unit and it 'seems' to be half covered or more, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and grant it cover.
But for argument's sake, I believe that the "majority of the target", as stated in #2 above, means 51% or more of the target, period. And that technically, 48% of the unit is not 51%.
I believe that you should play by the ruling that breaks the fewest rules.
In Wisetiger's examples, the unit meets both Wisetiger's Requirements and Assface's Requirements, and thus achieves cover in both cases.
In Assface's example, the unit only meets Assface's Requirements, and does not meet Wisetiger's Requirements for cover.
Therefore, I believe I am right. And Assface is an assface.
Please discuss.
PS. I did read up on other threads about this, like http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ning+units, but wanted to start a new thread instead of bring that one back from the dead.
First the rules (all on page 41 of the BRB):
1. COVER: If the majority of the models in the target unit (or, when firing against a single model, more than half of the target model) is obscured from the shooting model's view by other models (friend or enemy) or by terrain then an additional To Hit modifier is applied.
2. Target Behind Hard Cover: We also count intervening units as hard cover (if they obscure the line of sight to the majority of the target, of course) as their presence will play havoc with the shooters' accuracy. If the majority of a unit is obscured by such 'hard' terrain, it is said to be Hard Cover.
In the example photo:
3. The Giant (2) is more than half hidden by the building, so shots against it would suffer from a -2 penalty for hard cover.
4. Similarly, the Knights (3) would benefit from the -2 penalty for hard cover - which is the Swordsmen in this case.
"Majority" is defined as "more than half". So for argument's sake, let's just say "Majority" = 51% or more.
Situation: There is a unit of, say, 7 models. So for hard cover from an intervening unit:
Wisetiger's Requirements: 51% or more of the 7 models needs to be obscured regardless if 4 are 100% obscured and the other three aren't or 51% of each of the 7 models are obscured. The total 3 dimensional "footprint", if you will, of the target unit needs to be obscured from line of sight of the shooting model.
My friend (let's call him Assface, for this example, ya know, for anonymity's sake).
Assface's Requirements: As long as the majority of the models are at least 51% obscured, the unit gains cover. An example he gives would be if 4 of the 7 models were 85% obscured, and the rest weren't, that unit would get cover.
If we apply Wisetiger's examples to the situation of the 7 models, that being 51% of the unit (in whichever combination of concealment), then that unit meets the requirements set forth by Wisetiger (obviously).
It also meets the requirements for cover set forth by Assface.
Now if we apply Assface's example to the situation of the 7 models, that being 4/7 models are 85% obscured, and the rest aren't, then that unit meets the requirements set forth by Assface.
However, it does not meet the requirements set forth by Wisetiger. 4 of 7 models is 57%. If only 85% of those were obscured, only 48% of the target unit would be obscured. Wisetiger's requirement is 51% or more, or what is considered 'majority'.
Obviously, this is dependent upon the accuracy of the naked eye, of "line of sight" and stooping down to your model's eye level, etc. Now, I tend to be a friendly player with good sportsmanship. So If I see a unit and it 'seems' to be half covered or more, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and grant it cover.
But for argument's sake, I believe that the "majority of the target", as stated in #2 above, means 51% or more of the target, period. And that technically, 48% of the unit is not 51%.
I believe that you should play by the ruling that breaks the fewest rules.
In Wisetiger's examples, the unit meets both Wisetiger's Requirements and Assface's Requirements, and thus achieves cover in both cases.
In Assface's example, the unit only meets Assface's Requirements, and does not meet Wisetiger's Requirements for cover.
Therefore, I believe I am right. And Assface is an assface.
Please discuss.
PS. I did read up on other threads about this, like http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ning+units, but wanted to start a new thread instead of bring that one back from the dead.