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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Is there an official ruling anywhere when I need to pop the Gem of Sunfire? Say I have a high magic archmage who is trying to cast Fiery Convocation, which is what I assume the gem is for in tournament builds. So I pop it at the beginning of the magic phase, right before I cast the spell? Or after I roll the spell dice like a douche?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:24 pm 
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No official FAQ (Why GW!?!) . The way I read there isn't anything that would prevent using it right after the succesfull cast and before rolling wounds. Many other One use only state when they are used and as far as I know there is no general rule that "unless otherwise stated one use only will be activated..."

So as written activate it instantly when you need it after dispeling attempt.

That can be rather powerful combination. I have once toyed with the idea, but totally forgot it. fiery convocation + gem. I had to check out wording on Flaming Sword of Rhuin, sadly I was dissapointed ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Loriel wrote:
No official FAQ (Why GW!?!) . The way I read there isn't anything that would prevent using it right after the succesfull cast and before rolling wounds. Many other One use only state when they are used and as far as I know there is no general rule that "unless otherwise stated one use only will be activated..."

So as written activate it instantly when you need it after dispeling attempt.

That can be rather powerful combination. I have once toyed with the idea, but totally forgot it. fiery convocation + gem. I had to check out wording on Flaming Sword of Rhuin, sadly I was dissapointed ;)


I think the original intention was (and there is a pic of them right next to the item) for this to be fluffy and used exclusively by Dragon Mages for one turn of "super mode" where everything the miniature does in every phase will have +1 to wound that turn. I have seen it pop up now and again in top lists with the high magic archmage, and have the room for the Gem in my army for a GT in three weeks. Thanks for the clarification, it's a damn decent item after all.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Man, that definitely needs an FAQ.. So cheesy, I can't imagine many players that would take kindly to such a move :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:48 pm 
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The ETC FAQ does answer this question indirectly (look for question 18.6). It essentially says that you can use the gem after rolling for the number of hits, but it must be used before you roll to wound. Depending on your meta, this might or might not be useful, given that it's not an official GW FAQ.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:08 am 
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It's pretty undecided. Reading the rules, it reads like it should be used at the beginning of the turn. After all, it mentions affecting all phases of the turn it is used in. So that is how I would use it in a friendly match.

As for a tournament match, it doesn't come out and say when it should be used. So it's unclear when it can be used. Check with the tournament organizer beforehand.

Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:27 am 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
It's pretty undecided. Reading the rules, it reads like it should be used at the beginning of the turn. After all, it mentions affecting all phases of the turn it is used in. So that is how I would use it in a friendly match.

As for a tournament match, it doesn't come out and say when it should be used. So it's unclear when it can be used. Check with the tournament organizer beforehand.

Rod

Disagree. As if you need to use it at the start of a turn it will specify i.e Potion of Strength / Potion of Toughness - all these specify "declare at start of turn".

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:12 am 
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I agree with your disagreement that if it should read it in the item description when it should be used, like the potions it should say "at the start of turn". Since it doesn't it is unclear when exactly you should declare it and you can use whenever. And then the ETC faq makes the most sense in that you can't use it after rolling to wound for already rolled wounds.

In a non-ETC game I would argue that if you use it in your opponents turn you run into sequencing issues. Declaring the gem and rolling to wound would happen at the same time, which means your opponent can chose the order and would apply the gem activation to happen after the to-wound rolls in which case they don't affect the already rolled results anymore.

My first point was that, the rules for the gem read like the gem should apply to the whole turn. In which case it should be activated at the start of that turn. And GW just is really bad at writing rules and they forgot it. It wouldn't be the first "we thought it was obvious it was supposed to be that way" faq they released... Hence, since I feel it should be played that way, I play it that way, in the spirit of the game. Yes, I probably limit myself. But winning for me in a casual game isn't everything.

Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:56 pm 
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Then I read this as...

I roll to cast Fiery Convocation, it goes off
Opponent tries to dispel, and fails
I pop the gem
roll to hit on the unit being targeted by Fiery Convocation, with the +1 to wound
gem resolves, and does not effect future instances of damage from Fiery Convocation on the unit afflicted

sounds about right?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:07 am 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
And GW just is really bad at writing rules and they forgot it. It wouldn't be the first "we thought it was obvious it was supposed to be that way" faq they released...
Rod

+1

Red Geist wrote:
Then I read this as...

I roll to cast Fiery Convocation, it goes off
Opponent tries to dispel, and fails
I pop the gem
roll to wound with the +1 to wound
gem resolves, and does not effect future instances of damage from Fiery Convocation on the unit afflicted

sounds about right?

You don't need to roll to "hit" with fiery convoc :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:57 pm 
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yeah that, my bad. I mistyped. Thanks for the help everyone.


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