Ulthuan

Can you use the end times lists in normal games, and does the eternal hatred rule mean that swordmasters and white lions can re-role hits again, and, can you use the host of the eternity king list just with high elves and still get all the special rules that come with it?

Yes, yes and yes

Yay!!!!!

Lol. That made someone happy.

Also don't forget every elf gets both Murderous and Martial prowess in an Eternity King list.

laurie1 wrote:Can you use the end times lists in normal games, and does the eternal hatred rule mean that swordmasters and white lions can re-role hits again, and, can you use the host of the eternity king list just with high elves and still get all the special rules that come with it?

Swordmasters and White Lions don't get Eternal Hatred in any of the host lists.

If one player had an an EoT list (say comprised of units from all three Elf books) and the other player did not (for simplicity, say was composed of units only from one of the Elf books), would EoT rules apply to both lists?

The guy running the non-mixed list has the option of making his list one of the Hosts from the Khaine book. In most cases he would choose the Host of the Eternity King, as units have both murderous and martial prowess, unless he wanted some special characters that are not allowed in the Eternity King host (e.g. running a Host of the Phoenix King so he can use Teclis).

Grenic wrote:If one player had an an EoT list (say comprised of units from all three Elf books) and the other player did not (for simplicity, say was composed of units only from one of the Elf books), would EoT rules apply to both lists?

yes

Ok, got my Khaine book.

Looking at the army rules, it appears that they kind of evolve as follows:

Host of Aestyrion
- List can be composed of High Elf and Dark Elf units as listed in the Khaine Book, page 21
- Models with Hatred (High Elves) use Hatred (Elves) instead
- Models with Martial Prowess have Murderous Prowess (page 21) instead
- Models with Valour of Ages use revised rule (page 21) instead
- Models with Fireborn, Hekarti’s/Lileath’s Blessings use the applicable rule outlined on page 21

Host of the Phoenix King
- List can be composed of High Elf, Dark Elf, and Wood Elf units as listed in the Khaine Book, page 22
- Models with Hatred (High Elves) use Hatred (Elves) instead
- Models with Murderous Prowess use Martial Prowess (page 22) instead
- Models with Forest Stalker have Forest Strider and use Martial Prowess (page 22) instesd
- Model Arrows of Isha, Blessing of the Ancients, Eternal Hatred, and Forest Spirit use the applicable rule outlined on page 22
- Models with Fireborn, Hekarti’s/Lileath’s Blessings, Hatred (Elves), and Valour of Ages use the applicable rule outlined on page 21

Host of the Eternity King
- List can be composed of High Elf, Dark Elf, and Wood Elf units as listed in the Khaine Book, page 23
- Models with Hatred (High Elves) use Hatred (Elves) instead
- Models with Martial Prowess also gain Murderous Prowess (page 21)
- Models with Murderous Prowess also gain Martial Prowess (page 22)
- Models with Forest Stalker have Forest Strider and gain both Martial Prowess (page 22) and Murderous Prowess (page 21)
- Models with Arrows of Isha, Blessing of the Ancients, Eternal Hatred, and Forest Spirit use the applicable rule as outlined on page 22
- Models with Fireborn, Hekarti’s/Lileath’s Blessings, Hatred (Elves), and Valour of Ages use the applicable rule outlined on page 21

Now, I guess the next problem is how to handle a declared elf ET list playing an undeclared elf list in a tourney setting.

Likely the best approach is to just treat both lists as being Host of the Eternity King lists.

What do others think?

Grenic wrote: Now, I guess the next problem is how to handle a declared elf ET list playing an undeclared elf list in a tourney setting.

Likely the best approach is to just treat both lists as being Host of the Eternity King lists.

What do others think?

I imagine most tournaments won't allow ET armies, and those that do will have explicit rules regarding what can be used and what-counts-as-what

Edit: The simplest solution is probably to consider all 'undeclared' lists as Eternity King lists, but it breaks down when someone builds an army book list which uses special character combinations not allowed by any of the 3 hosts in the Khaine book. Simplest solution is to allow all army-book named characters in an Eternity King host, and only apply the host-specific restrictions to the special characters specific to the Khaine book.

Grenic wrote: Now, I guess the next problem is how to handle a declared elf ET list playing an undeclared elf list in a tourney setting.

Likely the best approach is to just treat both lists as being Host of the Eternity King lists.

What do others think?

I don't understand the question. What do you mean by declared and undeclared list?

As far as I know there is nothing to declare. There are now 6 elven armies you can play: HE, DE, WE and the 3 ET list, so Aestyrion, phoenix king and eternity king.

They are 6 different armies. You pick one of the 6 when you create your armylist and you follow all the rules attached to that army.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:What do you mean by declared and undeclared list? As far as I know there is nothing to declare. There are now 6 elven armies you can play: HE, DE, WE and the 3 ET list, so Aestyrion, phoenix king and eternity king.
Rod

I think he's referring to the fact that anyone who builds a list from one of the 3 army books who doesn't really thinkg about ET is at an unfair disadvantage, since they could get a strict upgrade for all their units simply by calling it an Eternity King list. The only exception would be people who want to use specific special characters.

Eirik wrote:

Prince of Spires wrote:What do you mean by declared and undeclared list? As far as I know there is nothing to declare. There are now 6 elven armies you can play: HE, DE, WE and the 3 ET list, so Aestyrion, phoenix king and eternity king.
Rod

I think he's referring to the fact that anyone who builds a list from one of the 3 army books who doesn't really thinkg about ET is at an unfair disadvantage, since they could get a strict upgrade for all their units simply by calling it an Eternity King list. The only exception would be people who want to use specific special characters.

Said person would also need the ET:K book as documentation of such rules.

Simplest way would be if its undeclared, its standard AB list. If you want a ET list...then it needs to be declared on the army list and have the supporting books.

Definitely agree that it should be declared on the army list, but would you really need the books? The rules in question are widely known, if someone hasn't seen them they are freely available online, it takes seconds to Google up a scan of the relevant page. Are any tournaments really pedantic enough to insist that players have the relevant books?

Ladril Caledor wrote:Definitely agree that it should be declared on the army list, but would you really need the books? The rules in question are widely known, if someone hasn't seen them they are freely available online, it takes seconds to Google up a scan of the relevant page. Are any tournaments really pedantic enough to insist that players have the relevant books?

Yes. As you general don't have time to look them up on the internet. If you have an e-copy that isn't an issue but it's player etiquette to have the books handy for player reference.
I wouldn't assume rules are widely known as not that many people play them and they are relatively new.