Sisters of the Thorn

[PenguinWarlord]

Hey guys, I have been part of the forum for awhile, but this is my firdt time posting. I started playing High Elves about 8 months ago. Anyways, with the new Khaine magic, would this mean, that if the Sisters of the Thorn successfully got off Transformation of Kadon, that whatever beast they transformed into would then have a 4+ ward save carried over from their special rules?

[Ladril Caledor]

I don't think so. The spell doesn't specify that special rules carry over, only wounds. The beast that they transform into has its own special rules.

Also you wrote '...whatever beast they transformed into...", which makes me think you would transfer the whole unit into a beast. My interpretation of the rules is that, as you nominate one Sister as the 'caster' for each spell you use, only one Sister would transform, and the others would remain Sisters.

This is potentially pretty awesome, as the big monster base would mean additional ranks and casting bonus, and the Life magic of the Sisters could heal the monster as it ravaged your opponents.

I have a follow up question: If the beast took five wounds and then was dispelled back to being a Sister, how do those 5 wounds 'carry over'? Would you have to remove 5 Sisters? Would each cavalry model count as 2 wounds (like with Regrowth)? Or would you just remove the one Sister that transformed?

[PenguinWarlord]

I just checked the FAQ in the main rules, and it appears that special rules do not stop working. At least that's how I had read it. I could see the case for only one to transform, however, the that I interpret it, the unit together counts as one wizard, and would therefore transform together, but that's just how I had read it.

[Prince of Spires]

Yes, special rules keep working. So if you have a special rule that states you have a 4+ ward then that carries over to the monster. In the same way, you can get an ASF monster by having a HE mage transform. As ladril mentions, it's in the FAQ somewhere.

A more interesting question becomes what happens when they cast the spell again (next phase)? Would you get a second monster or would you dispel the first and make a new monster? It seems like if you specify a specific model to be the caster then you can cast it again in a next phase and have a second monster.

The wounds don't carry over into the unit when the model is transferred back. The model suffers from multiple wounds. And those don't carry over onto other models of a unit. See the multiple wounds rules in the BRB.

Rod

[Iluvatar]

Luckily, all these questions do not apply currently since The Transformation of Kadon is an augment spell that can only be cast upon the Wizard, and only if he is on foot.
(check the spell description)

[Ladril Caledor]

Luckily, all these questions do not apply currently since The Transformation of Kadon is an augment spell that can only be cast upon the Wizard, and only if he is on foot.
(check the spell description)

Yeah that settles it, the Sisters can't use the spell at all. I think that's for the best, as under Khaine magic they are a really strong unit anyway. I guess they will just have to get by with Dwellers, Flesh to Stone boosted by Throne of Vines, spam Wyssans Wildform etc etc etc

[John Rainbow]

Obviously a moot point in terms of the original question but there are still some similar issues that need to be worked out for units like this: for instance Warlocks casting Soul Stealer (the one when you gain wounds above starting value).

[PenguinWarlord]

Luckily, all these questions do not apply currently since The Transformation of Kadon is an augment spell that can only be cast upon the Wizard, and only if he is on foot.
(check the spell description)

Ah. There it is. I knew that it was too good to be true. Lol

[manveruppd]

Moot point, but they wouldn't be able to cast it again even if they were on foot because it's "remains in play"

[effreem]

Obviously a moot point in terms of the original question but there are still some similar issues that need to be worked out for units like this: for instance Warlocks casting Soul Stealer (the one when you gain wounds above starting value).

I thought you nominate a model to count as "the caster" for spells like that.