Flamespyre Phoenix- Wake of Fire rule Question.

[Eldfågeln]

So ive started to build a flamespyre phoenix after playing for a long time with the frosty as my only phoenix. But i have a question about the wake of fire special rule.

It says that if i move over a unit in the remaining moves sup phase that it takes d6+d3 extra hit per rank after the first. Sounds prety clear to me that you count the ranks in the unit and roll dices accordingly.

I fly over 20 skave slaves 5x4 with 4 ranks means i get d6+4d3 str4.

If i fly over 20 slaves 2 ranks of 10 it should be d6+d3 str4.

Doesnt matter from wich side i fly? Cant be d6+10d3 if i hit the flank of em?

Furion says it works as in the second example in his videos, but that cant be right? Havent found a singel rule that supports that interpretation.

How do you play it?

[Prince of Spires]

I play it like you play it.

The description of the flamespire mentions ranks, and nothing else, which is important to note. This means that you have to look at the definition of ranks as given in the BRB, which is (p 5): (a unit is) a formation that consists of one or more horizontal lines called ranks.

In some special cases ranks are treated as files and vise versa. This is mainly the case for shooting attacks (bolttrowers, cannons). But I'm sure there are a few others somewhere as well. But in all these cases this is specifically mentioned to be the case. That is not the case with the flamespire (since it only mentions ranks) and so the ranks are the horizontal lines.

It is possible that the ETC (which is what Furion plays) has a different ruling on this. But otherwise, Furion is wrong I think.

Rod

[Eldfågeln]

Thats is how i understand it to.

Ranks are how deep a unit is, and lines is the width.
I havent seen any other form of description.

Read the Etc-Faq and found nothing there.

But i do hope Furion reads this and can shed some light on this.

[theviking]

You are correct. It doesn't matter which side of the unit you fly over, the ranks are the same.

I remember furion talking about flaming a conga line, where each rank was only one model wide but it was still a rank and generated d3 hits. Is that what you were thinking about?

[Eldfågeln]

No its not. Its what he says in this BR from the ETC i think. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UqV77LhSuR4

Around 2:00 he talks about massive amounts of hits and it works like a bolt thrower.

[theviking]

Hmm.. he does say "as determined for a bolt thrower."

I think what he means is that you consider the number of models lined up behind each other, so if you have two ranks of 5 and one rank of three the unit has three ranks and a bolt thrower could possibly kill three models.

Rather than counting rank bonus/steadfast for the unit where only 5+ models are considered a rank.

I'm sure that the wake of fire attack determines a unit's ranks as you would normally, regardless of which direction the phoenix flies from. The only things that do otherwise specifically say so in the rules for that attack, such as bolt throwers and straight line templates like cannons which count files as ranks when determining the maximum number models that can be hit while firing from the flank.

[Eldfågeln]

Yea well how can he say that its a massive amount of hits if you fly over the flank of stuff. d6 st4 over 5 knights isnt what i would call massive amounts of hits.

[Curu Olannon]

You are misinterpreting Furion. By ranks as a bolt thrower, he means that a congaline still has tons of ranks: A Bolt Thrower would pierce them but they would not get a rank bonus. There is no ETC rule for moving sideways through the unit (think about the abuse potential with 20" fly move...) and I have not seen anyone play it this way.

[Eldfågeln]

Me neither, and i have no intention to do.
I plan to play it as the rules in the high elves rule book. But i was interested to know how Furion played it. Couse from the video it sounds like he doeasnt play it the correct way.

[Curu Olannon]

He doesn`t say flank, he says line. As in congaline. It has nothing to do with what facing the unit has (unlike a bolt thrower, hence why this is misleading). He is simply making the point that the Flamespyre Phoenix does not need its enemies lined up 5-wide in order to score the bonus hits.

Furion plays is this way as well. Just ignore the "as a bolt thrower" part.

[John Rainbow]

You are misinterpreting Furion. By ranks as a bolt thrower, he means that a congaline still has tons of ranks: A Bolt Thrower would pierce them but they would not get a rank bonus. There is no ETC rule for moving sideways through the unit (think about the abuse potential with 20" fly move...) and I have not seen anyone play it this way.

+1