Welf 8th High Magic lore vs. Killing Blow

[Loriel]

Once again I am in need of Ulthuan Wisdom

I faced yesterday my Wood elven friend with my Tomb Kings and we ended up in situation where I managed to score Killing Blow on his High Magic spellweaver. Then we had little argument about the ruling

At our game there were total 4 protection counter in the unit. I managed to do with same initiative step 7 wounds on the unit, 2 regular wounds on spellweaver and one killing blow on spellweaver.

I have few questions about the situation:
- When receiveing same intiative step unsaved wounds, Is the wood elven player allowed to choose which wounds he is going to save?
- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow specifically states that it can only be saved with ward save.
- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow doesn't cause wounds as per se.
- How does this work with multiple wounds.

During our game we decided that it wouldn't save from killing blow.

Here are the rules that I found to answer this question.

Whenever the Wizard (or a model in tha same unit as him) suffers unsaved Wound and there are one or more protection counters next to him, remove protection counter and treat the Wound as if it had been saved.

Whilst every effort has been made to make sure that the sequencing of rules is utterly clear, occasionally you'll find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time — normally 'at the start of the Movement phase' or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

If a model with the Killing Blow special rule rolls a 6 to wound in close combat, he automatically slays his opponent - regardless of the number of wounds on the victim's profile. Armour saves and regeneration saves cannot be taken against a Killing Blow. A ward save can be attempted — if passed, the ward save prevents all damage from the Killing Blow.

Each unsaved wound inflicted by an attack with the Multiple Wounds special rule is multiplied into more than one wound

[Dalamar]

I can answer all but the first question with confidence so:

- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow specifically states that it can only be saved with ward save.

Yes, yes it can. The protection states "as if it had been saved". What happens if you save a killing blow? It doesn't happen

- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow doesn't cause wounds as per se.

Yes, for a very specific reason. GW seems unable to distinguish things causing wounds from things killing things outright. A basic ward save for example is only allowed against wounds, Banner of The World dragon is also only allowed against wounds (so would you say that a magical killing blow ignores Banner of the World Dragon? Probably not). It's safest to assume that things that kill outright cause as many wounds as model has remaining.

- How does this work with multiple wounds.

Just like any other save that would save a multiple wounds attack. Save happens before multiplication.

As for the first question. Technically the correct way to do it would be for the player whose turn it is to decide who gets protected by High Magic, but realistically speaking expect every single wood elf out there to be in a bigger uproar than about duplicating enchanted items.

[Asurion Whitestar]

Once again I am in need of Ulthuan Wisdom

I faced yesterday my Wood elven friend with my Tomb Kings and we ended up in situation where I managed to score Killing Blow on his High Magic spellweaver. Then we had little argument about the ruling

At our game there were total 4 protection counter in the unit. I managed to do with same initiative step 7 wounds on the unit, 2 regular wounds on spellweaver and one killing blow on spellweaver.

I have few questions about the situation:
- When receiveing same intiative step unsaved wounds, Is the wood elven player allowed to choose which wounds he is going to save?
- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow specifically states that it can only be saved with ward save.
- Does this protection save from killing blow, as killing blow doesn't cause wounds as per se.
- How does this work with multiple wounds.

During our game we decided that it wouldn't save from killing blow.

Here are the rules that I found to answer this question.

Whenever the Wizard (or a model in tha same unit as him) suffers unsaved Wound and there are one or more protection counters next to him, remove protection counter and treat the Wound as if it had been saved.

Whilst every effort has been made to make sure that the sequencing of rules is utterly clear, occasionally you'll find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time — normally 'at the start of the Movement phase' or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

If a model with the Killing Blow special rule rolls a 6 to wound in close combat, he automatically slays his opponent - regardless of the number of wounds on the victim's profile. Armour saves and regeneration saves cannot be taken against a Killing Blow. A ward save can be attempted — if passed, the ward save prevents all damage from the Killing Blow.

Each unsaved wound inflicted by an attack with the Multiple Wounds special rule is multiplied into more than one wound

As I understand and believe, yes he may choose the order (wound order) in which the Protecounters are used, if it is his turn. And you could choose in your turn.

In friendly games I would say they he get to choose every turn, as that makes sense and I like to play my rules that make sense. :3

Anyway, with KB, you are rolling to wound, hence you are wounding, and the Rule Book mentions saves which only come into play versus wounds (albeit, to disregard armour saves and Regen saves), but to still allow wards. At this point as per RAW a rules lawyer could argue that it doesn't in fact cause a wound because it doesn't specifically say so, and that it allowing a ward save is an exception to the rule of saves vs wounds only.
I obviously believe in fun games where rules as intended (RAI) overrule RAW, because otherwise you're not playing a game of fantasy magic battles, but rather of squeezing loopholes out of the rules and squeezing the fun and sense out of games.

Also on the multiple wounds front, it is multiplied after you have failed any saves you have (as per Rule Book, because it doesn't mention Protecounters because they didn't exist). So in essence it's the same as KB, it happens at the same "time" and is therefore up to the player's whom turn it is.


All of this could be solved by simply ruling before the game with you're opponent what the Protecounters can be used against and in what order, or simply classifying them as "saves" to stop any unnecessary confusing and conflicting rules.

My two sense ;3

[Bashtrigger]

I'm not a 100% sure on this, as I don't have my book with me right now, but isn't the protection counter thing voluntary (as in your opponent may use a counter to save a wound)? In that case, he gets to choose which wound to use it on (or to use it at all or not).

[pk-ng]

I'm not a 100% sure on this, as I don't have my book with me right now, but isn't the protection counter thing voluntary (as in your opponent may use a counter to save a wound)? In that case, he gets to choose which wound to use it on (or to use it at all or not).

nope
and i don't think it's the opponent who gets to chose if the counter is used....that would be weird.

[Bashtrigger]

It is how many other things that 'happen at the same time' are resolved, so not all that weird. It is unfortunate, but not weird. But honestly, I think this is just one of those things that needs a FAQ to get truly solved. I would let my opponent choose which wounds to save, but that's just a personal preference