Seems I'll have to concede to you after all Dalamar, they do tell you to take reform into consideration in movement allowance. And the GW notation of a reform is flawed (because they simplified it). The way they tell you to reform, you can actually consider it just another type of wheel. Which indeed allows a lot of hexwraith shenanigans. Then they do indeed tell you to view the reform as if certain models within the unit moved a certain distance, which cannot be done if the reform causes any of these models to have moved more than twice their movement allowance.
It seems the way I was always taught to reform my units caused me to think of the maneuvre as being a entity different as the one specified in the rulebook.
Boy, moving with Fast Cav just became a nightmare to do correctly.
Dalamar wrote:
You don't:
Reform into a file
Move 18"
Reform into a line
Instead you:
Measure 18" for each model
Move fhem to destination, maintaining formation and making sure none moved more than double M
Wrong. You have to abide by the normal rules for moving, the FAQ does not allow you to magically invent a new form of movement. The only way to legally complete this move is to use reforms, as evidenced in my diagram. The only way this can be done is if reforms don`t cost movement, which makes sense. The reason for the 2x M note on free reforms on P14 is to assure that people don`t do 100 Skavenslaves into an army blocker etc: reforms are powerful but they have to be limited.
Reforms do not cost movement. Where does it say that it does? The Rulebook goes to great lengths to specify the difference between moving and perform a manoeuvre. I`ve elaborated on this above in as many ways as I can. If you want to play it differently that`s fine, but know that just about every tournament in the world plays it this way (if you hear about one where they don`t, let me know). All arguments thus far against this have logical inconcistencies.
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).
Curu Olannon wrote:
Reforms do not cost movement. Where does it say that it does?
=>
Curu Olannon wrote:
BRB FAQ April `13 wrote:
Q: When moving Fast Cavalry or Skirmishers, should I measure
from the location of each model before it moves and place it anywhere
within its Movement Allowance (or double its Movement Allowance
if it is marching) ? (p68, 77)
A: Yes. Except when there is a unit or impassable terrain in
the way, the distance moved must include the distance
required to move around these obstacles.
So it's not the reform that costs movement, it's the moving around an obstacle. And it's on a per model basis. In the diagram I posted earlier the pink model has to move around a unit. You can't argue that it does not meet the requirement in the faq entry of a unit being in the way you posted. Looks pretty clear to me that a unit is in the way of the model. Therefore, you have to include the distance needed to move around the unit in the move.
As a side note, since a maneuvre is not a move, then reforming hexwraits has no use, since its rules specify that it needs to move through a unit, not maneuvre through a unit...
Rod
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The point is, in the example given (with the gap between the unit) the models don't have to walk around anymore, since after a reform they are able to just move straight ahead and then reform again. If you're telling that they now have to measure their move along the purple lines, then you actually are saying reform cost movement value
During a reform you are still restricted by the double M allowance but it doesn't actually take away from your movement. This is to prevent magic congalining of a 5x5 unit into a line that stretches across entire deployment zone.
But when fast cavalry is concerned, I feel like I'm saying this over and I've again so I'll repeat myself one more time.
Free reform is a different beast from a reform done by units not allowed free reforms. Say all you want that it isn't but simple fact that it doesn't stop you from moving and that you can do them as many times and at any point during movement speaks against you.
Free reforming units don't change formation on the spot like other units do, they do it fluidly, while moving from point A to point B at no point stopping to change formation.
What you do, and what is explain in the FAQ is that you move each model on its own, anywhere within its movement allowance, measuring the actual path that it took.
You do it with every model on its own as if it wasn't part of a unit (I guess this is the easiest comparison).
Then once you have moved all models from the unit, you make sure they are placed in a legal formation and no model moved more than twice its M.
