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Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=67963
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Author:  Cyrus [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

I read a lot of interesting posts about the effectiveness of a star dragon list (esp now with 50 percent lords), but the battle reports I've seen have house rules in which hills automatically block LOS. My game group plays true LOS. What is your opinion about the viability of the dragon list in gaming groups which use rules as written (and hence true line of sight, where it's essentially impossible to block LOS to a dragon)?

Author:  Sinsigel [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

Unless you can literally spam impassable terrains or obstacles to block cannonballs, no.

I believe increased cap for lords to 50% of the army helps little.
Sure, players can now take both Lv4 mage and a star dragon lord even at 2.5K.
It just assures you can at least keep your Lv4 even when the dragon is down, which I think will almost always happen when you face armies with 3+ cannons. Even more so in bigger games.

One of the reasons why i gave up keep using double star dragon list at 3K is the sheer number of cannons which other armies can bring at 3K. 4 cannons for daemons and ogres, and even more for empire.
Dragons might survive cannonade through large number of wounds, but characters on top of them will be shot down in 1~2 turns at best.

Either the cannonball is changed so that it doesn't hit both rider and monster at the same time, or wounds are merged together : other than that I can see no viable way to field dragons in TLOS with any degree of confidence.

Author:  John Rainbow [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

I think it is viable but you have to accept that some match ups are going to be tough if not impossible i.e. dwarf gunline. It really depends a lot on who you place against.

There are some things you can do to help in your army list like the charmed shield or having multiple threats but in reality you need to be lucky and have to get the first turn if you face cannons and even then you have to be lucky.

Author:  Andrew_uk [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

John Rainbow wrote:
I think it is viable but you have to accept that some match ups are going to be tough if not impossible i.e. dwarf gunline. It really depends a lot on who you place against.

There are some things you can do to help in your army list like the charmed shield or having multiple threats but in reality you need to be lucky and have to get the first turn if you face cannons and even then you have to be lucky.


It may be a while since I played the game but I played the Star Dragon a lot under 7th. He was actually very deadly against armies like Dwarves/Empire. What you need is Target Saturation - and fortunately we can do that better than ever now!!

Star Dragon, Mage, Frostie, Max RBT, Silver Helm BSB bus and archers/reavers as core, then if you have spare points maybe an eagle mounted noble with the starlance

We have one thing which terrifies Dwarf players - Speed. Plus we can out range him. You should be able to take out maybe half his artillery through shooting and magic and once you're in combat (which should really be turn 2) he can't shoot you anyway!!

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

In my opinion no. There are likely too many matchups out there that you will auto-lose. As ever however, it depends on the meta. If your local group/the tournaments you attend don't have a lot of cannons, it could definitely work. There are some advantages to TLoS for Dragons also, being able to charge over just about anything is highly valuable for example.

Author:  John Rainbow [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

Andrew_uk wrote:
It may be a while since I played the game but I played the Star Dragon a lot under 7th. He was actually very deadly against armies like Dwarves/Empire. What you need is Target Saturation - and fortunately we can do that better than ever now!!

Star Dragon, Mage, Frostie, Max RBT, Silver Helm BSB bus and archers/reavers as core, then if you have spare points maybe an eagle mounted noble with the starlance

We have one thing which terrifies Dwarf players - Speed. Plus we can out range him. You should be able to take out maybe half his artillery through shooting and magic and once you're in combat (which should really be turn 2) he can't shoot you anyway!!

Sure there are a few things you can do to try and make a bad situation ok but its still a bad situation. Multiple threats, etc work but I haven't found a way to combine the Dragon with mutliple fast threats and long range shooting ala RBTs or magic all in one list. There just simply isn't the points there to do it unless you play really large games.

In my experience, Dwarves will still open a can of whoop-ass on most SD builds and if anything, are tougher now than they were due to higher strength attacks, stubborn and their still cheap warmachines. Likewise Empire with double stank and coven is rough. There are no two-ways about it, those games are almost auto-lose as Curu says. Like I said though it depends on what you expect to face and in any event, matchups and getting lucky with them goes a long way to getting a good result.

Author:  Koval [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Dragon viable with true line of sight?

It's definitely viable. The dragon-hiding game is different, but there are still ways to make it work. Keep in mind that "make it work" sometimes doesn't mean "hide." Between locking it in combat, hiding behind obstacles, and denying the space in front of the dragon, there are ways to make your dragon useful. Yes, empire and dwarves are still your worst matchup, but I wouldn't call them auto-lose.

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