Ulthuan

Fought my first two games with my new High Elves this weekend against a mates Ogre Kingdoms and got thoroughly stomped (literally as well as figuratively). We're at the 1200pt level, and I wondered if I could get some tips as to where to expand next, here's what I have.

Archmage, 10 Sea Guard, 16 Spearmen, 15 Phoenix Guard, 10 Swordmasters 13 Reavers, 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers 5 Dragon Princes and the Lord on the Griffon, basically the Island of Blood set with some extra chucked in.

It's clear that I need more beef in the list. The PG have great sticking power and running a L3 Archmage on High in the unit I held up his gutstar for about 4 turns but can't dish it out in return. I'm not running Sea Guard again, I'll just use them as spearmen. Likewise the Dragon Princes are great but don't have enough attacks to break the gutstar. I'm not looking to gear the list just to take out ogres, but something that felt it stood a better chance would be good!

So I have a few questions,

Apart from White Lions, where else should I be looking for some punch? Should I bother investing in a moon or Sun Dragon at this points level or a Frostie for the combo charge? (erring on the side of a frostie to reduce ogre toughness)

I keep hearing that our core is rubbish and should be kept to a minimum so is it worth just using 3 units of 5 reavers?

Any help would be grand, cheers!

A gutstar is hard work. With what you have you are going to have to depend on magic to counter it.

As far as expanding your list, silver helms and eagles are what I would add. You can certainly add white lions, but i use phoenix guard and am very happy with them.

I'm pretty much a fan of the loremaster these days. Huge range of spells and he can buff your unit with wyssans and hex the gutstar with miasma. He can also look after himself in combat, which is hard work for the arch mage.

Post your lists and we will see what we can do for you.

Cheers Rabidnid, much appreciated. Here's what I ran.


Archmage: Book of Hoeth; Dispel Scroll

5 Ellyrian Reavers: bows
20 Lothern Sea Guard: shields; Sea Master; musician; standard bearer

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor: Drakemaster (Star Lance); musician; standard bearer
14 Phoenix Guard: Keeper of the Flame; musician; standard bearer

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: Sea Guard Crew
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: Sea Guard Crew

1205 pts, (we're rarely fussed if a list goes over points.)

In my second game (Raze and Ruin) the list was thinner as I was defending, but more or less the same. Took High Magic first time round and Life the second.

If your opponent brings the runemaw to deflect spells, then magic becomes unreliable.

Also, for the record, our Core is great. You just have to apply and utilize it properly!

If it were me at 1200 points, I would go BSB with Sword of Might and Shield of the Merwyrm, toss him in a chunky unit of Phoenix Guard. Pack the rest of the list with Reavers and a couple Bolt Throwers and show him that he's not the only army that can run a tough unit. Redirect his Gutstar with Reavers, tearing him up with RBTs for a few turns, and engage with the Phoenix Guard once he's chopped down. High Elves are best when they own the Movement phase, and backing it up with shooting sure helps. The remaining points can buy you another character for shooting or combat. A Combat Prince is fun to use with elite infantry!

If you are trying to expand towards 2k I would suggest getting a couple more Phoenix Guard and give them the Razor Standard. THAT unit can do some serious damage to a Gutstar while still holding fast in combat. Running a unit of ~20-24 would be ideal in my opinion. I agree with getting some silver helms for your core (units of 6 are golden) and an eagle or two in rares (best 50 points ever).

BSB is also very useful once your games get larger since you have enough units to really benefit from the rerolls.

J4far wrote:If you are trying to expand towards 2k I would suggest getting a couple more Phoenix Guard and give them the Razor Standard. THAT unit can do some serious damage to a Gutstar while still holding fast in combat. Running a unit of ~20-24 would be ideal in my opinion. I agree with getting some silver helms for your core (units of 6 are golden) and an eagle or two in rares (best 50 points ever).

BSB is also very useful once your games get larger since you have enough units to really benefit from the rerolls.

I run PG over WL/SM just because of the re-rolls and 4+ ward. If I get off wyssans they are awesome but they will still survive without. WL and SM really need miasma available to protect them from higher initiative opponents

Because of Swedish comp I'm used to running 18, but anywhere in the range of 18-24 is a good number without you wasting too many attacks. They are not there for combat res, they are there to kill things, and with wyssans and the razor banner they are murder.

Rabidnid wrote: Because of Swedish comp I'm used to running 18, but anywhere in the range of 18-24 is a good number without you wasting too many attacks. They are not there for combat res, they are there to kill things, and with wyssans and the razor banner they are murder.

I'd say they're good for both! I generally run mine 7 wide to maximize attacks, but there are circumstances where I'll reform to a deep formation if I need them to hold a while.

They're really in a pretty unique and excellent place in Fantasy though: Anything with enough ranks to break their Steadfast typically isn't hard-hitting enough to break them, and anything with enough hitting power to break them generally doesn't have the ranks to get past Steadfast! Even when you combine a ranked-up unit and a hard hitter to try and take Phoenix Guard on, the PG can typically farm so many kills off the ranked-up unit that they still end up winning the combat despite any losses.

The times where I do lose them tends to come from a lopsided overwhelming magic phases (typically a bad dice split, scroll already gone, lucky channels for my opponents, and a broken concentration to Dispel, and that perfect storm of circumstances doesn't happen often. Heavily-armored killers with Other Trickster's Shard can get the job done too, so watch out for anything that might be carrying the OTS!

Why not go for something simpel

Take out the archmage and get a prince with ogre blade, merwyrm shield and heavy armour and put him in the guards
For magic a l2 heavens mage with a scroll and Khanes fury ring.
this will give you phoenix guards much more hitting power and still ok magic (You want blizard and lightning).
Points are nearly the same

If 2000 p is you goal you should get a box of Silver Helms a box of phoenix guards And a frost phoenix.

Am I the only one here that plays a little cheap? Shadow magic has always been my favorite lore for big chunky combats I don't like fighting. Pit of shades is fun to play with and usually sends shivers down spines and a large core block with mindrazor wrecks havoc on so many things!

Other than that, I'd definitely say pick up some eagles. I never leave home without one or two. You come to learn that with some fights, you don't fight it head on, but win with patience in your charges and combat res.