I have only playing the game since Feb this year so not an expert but from what I learned during my many attempts of different lists is that at 2.4k points it's almost futile to try to capitalize on the new rules with a special / infantry based list. Your blocks weaken significantly if you try to put lords beyond 600 points therefore no real benefit at all (teclis st7 banishment not really fun IMO) I personally don't like the SH bus Curu champions but it seems to be the optimum or best we can get at 2.4k
I think other races will suffer the same; despite Axiem's enthusiasm in various possibilities, we'll get stock standard lists from majority (I cannot imagine even the variety at ETC being maintained)
Solution: increasing the point levels. I think 2.7 or 3k will be the new norm instead of 2.4 At this point level we can enjoy the different options and people will be able to field them in a competitive manner.
Long story short at 2.4k Curu's list / idea seems the best for competitive playing.
My two cents worth
50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
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Re: 50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
Lvl 4 shadow, lvl 4 life, star dragon, some hitty nobles, bsb with botwd, 625 points of silver helms/reavers, 4 RBTs, frosty, 2 eagles. Throw bus at target, shoot chaff, frosty and prince tackle something. 6 dice dwellers/mind razor/pit for 6 turns. Slit wrists from boredom.
- Curu Olannon
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Re: 50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
So your L4s and Dragon weigh in around 1200 points. Assuming that by "some" you mean 2 and the Nobles are next to naked, they are another 200 points. The BSB is 170 ish. That's 1570. Core at 625 gives us 2195. 4 RBTs, a Frostheart and 2 Eagles later we are looking at a 2815 point army.Ether Dude wrote:Lvl 4 shadow, lvl 4 life, star dragon, some hitty nobles, bsb with botwd, 625 points of silver helms/reavers, 4 RBTs, frosty, 2 eagles. Throw bus at target, shoot chaff, frosty and prince tackle something. 6 dice dwellers/mind razor/pit for 6 turns. Slit wrists from boredom.
Have you seen what DE, LZ, VC, WoC, EMP, DW, DoC and OK can bring at 2800 points uncomped? The list you posted above does not worry me in the slightest: It's no-where near autowin and it's not going to break anything. Just because it would steam-roll certain Elf infantry builds doesn't mean it's broken, it just means the meta is different.
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).
Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.
Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:
:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.
Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:
:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
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Re: 50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
My mistake, but I think your calculations are off by around 200 points. I never said that the level 4s were upgraded, and I do not think that they cost 300 points naked. I was aiming for 1200. The point remains, take 1200 points of lords, bunker it with BotWD and throw it at anything that doesn't fly. Same result, same boring game.Curu Olannon wrote: That's 1570.
"The meta is different?" No. Just no. The meta is hyper safe points denial of 1200 points of characters hiding in a 1+ armor save cavalry bunker or flying with a 1+ save coupled with undercosted cannons and powerful magic. This is the ETC meta, and as far as I can tell by your reports, the meta that you play in.Curu Olannon wrote: Have you seen what DE, LZ, VC, WoC, EMP, DW, DoC and OK can bring at 2800 points uncomped? [...] it just means the meta is different.
What can DE, LZ, VC, WoC, EMP, DW, DoC and OK bring? Powerful characters in a large unbreakable/stubborn unit, cannons, and 1+ armor saves or 1200 points of flying 1+ armor characters plus some magic backed up by 1200 points of shooting/magicking fast cavalry. Boring.
High elves are not a broken army. The goal shouldn't be to break the game with army lists. "How to capitalize" is the title of the thread. My answer is to take 1200 points of lords and put it into a botwd bunker and throw bolts/magic/s7 princes for 6 turns. You advocate for this quite often. The specifics don't matter. Dragon, no dragon, 2 lvl 4s, one, lore master, light, death etc. don't change how an army plays and are minor tweaks at best and cosmetic changes most commonly. This is the meta. This is boring.
- Curu Olannon
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Re: 50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
Grouping characters together is how we play. It is what makes High Elves viable under the current ruleset. As far as I know, it is the one common denominator in competitive High Elf lists. If you don't like that you simply have the wrong army
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).
Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.
Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:
:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.
Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:
:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
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Re: 50% Hero/Lord FAQ: How to Capitalize
I think we High Elves really only have 2 competitive options, a BotWD Silver Helm bus and a light council.
The bus with or without a dragon is probably the best all around option.
Light Council is stronger against Nagash/Undead and Chaos. Whether its a Teclis council or Alarielle council is up to taste, but you will be going with at least some infantry with a light council, and Alarielle is better protected and better at protecting the unit she's with. I would maybe even say light council is better against elves as well, since it gives us our best option for dealing with Dragons, Warlocks/Sisters fast cav buses of ridiculousness, and depending on the infantry you bring, a counter to the botwd bus. I think S7 is a must, as S6 likely won't cut it. Teclis also give you the option of Occam's and a boosted Amber Spear for a de facto cannon.
The bus with or without a dragon is probably the best all around option.
Light Council is stronger against Nagash/Undead and Chaos. Whether its a Teclis council or Alarielle council is up to taste, but you will be going with at least some infantry with a light council, and Alarielle is better protected and better at protecting the unit she's with. I would maybe even say light council is better against elves as well, since it gives us our best option for dealing with Dragons, Warlocks/Sisters fast cav buses of ridiculousness, and depending on the infantry you bring, a counter to the botwd bus. I think S7 is a must, as S6 likely won't cut it. Teclis also give you the option of Occam's and a boosted Amber Spear for a de facto cannon.