Thoughts on the Loremaster?

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grandalf
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Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#1 Post by grandalf »

Hi folks!
I've just painted my Loremaster of Hoeth, and I would be grateful for any hints on how to put him to use in best way. I think there might be a thread somewhere here on the subject but i didn't find it...

/G
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Curu Olannon
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#2 Post by Curu Olannon »

Very versatile and tons of fun to play. His main weakness, in my opinion, is how hard it is to incorporate him in an army. I have yet to solve this puzzle, but the best use I've seen so far is to have him alongside an L4 in a coven of light build.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#3 Post by afterglow82 »

My thoughts are (depending on opponent) to use Spirit Leech from Death on the (generally) Low-LD monsters and such - For instance, i'll be targeting my DE-opponent's Hydras (LD5) and bloodwrack medusa (LD2) potentially killing one each turn, and with the 1/3 possibility of an extra power dice for every wound caused. I know you have to be fairly close (12", or 24" at a cast of 10+) but I have him in a combat unit, so that's not a big issue.

Miasma is another staple, and with a couple of 5+ magic missiles at hand as well, he's fairly tooled up
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#4 Post by Baleanoon »

He himself is amazing, the problem is foot characters themselves. If you are ok deathstaring or using formation shenanigans to keep them safe he can work. I've also theorized on using him in a large smaster block, backed by a lot of shooting, but sadly I don't have 30 archers painted yet.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#5 Post by Talathel »

Iv personnaly found that in any game he is one of the best wizards in our army. His only real downside is that he is a level 2.

I play mainly infantry based games. At 2400 points, i use him and a noble bsb. He truly makes the army for me. I use either 28 white lions or 28 swordsmasters with a unit of 24 phoenix guard where he goes with the PG. I played a game against a WOC player and absolutely wrecked him with just the phoenix guard and the two characters. I didnt even use my other special unit :( poor white lions lol

The PG had razor banner on them and being str 4 thats a minus 2 to their Armour. I use the Loremaster and get off spells like wysanns and iceshard blizzard, melkoths. he was hitting me on 6's, im hitting him on 3's rerolled. Im now str 5 so minus 3 to armour. so no armour for halberd weilding warriors :). I just beleive he opens up so much for us.

2 magic missiles. str 4, or one str 6 demon killer
1 magic missile that kills 1+AS models outright. ie steam tanks and knights
2 buff spell. one gives regen the other +1 str and Toug
2 hex spells. one is minus 1 to hut the other reduces a stat by d3
1 character snipe spell ld test or lose wounds

If you were to then take a loremaster and a level 4 with high magic you have everything you would ever need to deal with all types of armies in the magic phase. EXCEPT the two game changers like dwellers. But if you need to rely on one spell you are doomed before you start.

Hope this helps. I also use him at 1200pts. no other wizard except a slann can do what he does at that points level and then a slann my be to expensive not sure on that tho.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#6 Post by Talathel »

Baleanoon wrote:He himself is amazing, the problem is foot characters themselves. If you are ok deathstaring or using formation shenanigans to keep them safe he can work. I've also theorized on using him in a large smaster block, backed by a lot of shooting, but sadly I don't have 30 archers painted yet.
If you give him enchanted shield and ogre blade with talisman of preservation he will nearly always survive. Using the right combo of magic before you get charged or after you have can make him get hit on 6's and maybe wounded on 5's depending what your fighting obviously. Then they have to deal with a armour save and then the 4+ ward, maybe a 3+ if a high mage is in the unit. I personnal put him in PG. And buff them to monstrous levels! A unit of 25 warriors of chaos with great weapons cant touch them if you do it right.

Wysans Widform
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Hits you on 6's, wounds on 2's with a 4+ /3+ ward afterwards. :)
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#7 Post by Teledor »

Love the Loremaster and his versatility. Huge toolbox to work with and a useful spell to cast in almost any game situation. That said, he is only level 2 so magic defense can be lacking. Currently I like sitting him with a strong PG block w/Razor standard. Tool him up with Talisman of Preservation and a dispel scroll. Potentially throw on the Ring of Fury to grab a much needed 3++ when the need arises - like your about to be charged in the face.

Otherwise, you could go with a different 30 point max item, but few would be too awesome.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#8 Post by cptcosmic »

imho works best with coven of light or an MMU/MSU lists, those are the lists where his versatility can be played out at best in my experience.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#9 Post by Andros123 »

My problem with the loremaster + book of hoeth is the opposing nature of this build.
He has so many low casting spells and with the book this will encourage you to try to cast multiple times. However being a level 2 really hurts here. When you are a lower lvl. caster then your opponents caster, you should throw a lot of dice at the same time, hence minimizing the effect of his 2+ over you.

And as mentioned before, I find it very painful when you are on the dispelling side of the magic phase
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#10 Post by grandalf »

Thanks for the answers! I think I'm coming up with a list now...

As soon as I figure out how to attach a pic here I'll show him to you. I'm kind of pleased with the (minor) convertion, and the painting..

/G
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#11 Post by SpellArcher »

How many guys take a scroll on him and of those who don't, how many take a mage with a scroll?
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#12 Post by Talathel »

SpellArcher wrote:How many guys take a scroll on him and of those who don't, how many take a mage with a scroll?
Id rather kit him out to fight and survive. I find scrolls to be more of a situational thing then something thats really needed. What i mean is, that big nasty spell your opponent has, he will throw 5/6 dice at that and it will nearly always irresistable force. So you end up using it on a spell thats not as important as that. I wont normally take two mages, i find one normally enough and if u need to rely on one phase for your army to win then your doing something wrong.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#13 Post by SpellArcher »

Chance of IF on six dice is just over 26%. A big roll on something like Dwellers or Mindrazor can cost the game if you don't have a scroll. There are builds that can play well without it but not many. It's not about relying on one phase it's about covering the bases so the rest of your army can do their jobs.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#14 Post by Prince of Spires »

Andros123 wrote:My problem with the loremaster + book of hoeth is the opposing nature of this build.
He has so many low casting spells and with the book this will encourage you to try to cast multiple times. However being a level 2 really hurts here. When you are a lower lvl. caster then your opponents caster, you should throw a lot of dice at the same time, hence minimizing the effect of his 2+ over you.
I find that especially with the BoH, being a lvl2 doesn't hurt the loremaster as much. There is decent redundancy in his spells. If you don't get one cast, there is always another. Trickling spells on few dice makes prioritizing dispells difficult for your opponent. Does he only use a few dice with the risk of failing to dispell? Does he use more to be sure with the risk of then getting 3 more spells cast on only 2 dice?

You can even force his hand a bit more by having a backup lvl1-2 caster. Having 2 casts of wildform, searing doom, miasma and so on can put a lot of pressure on those dispel dice.

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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#15 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi grandalf,

I have used the Loremaster for some time as a single caster and the army general, here are my observations:

1. His strength lies in versatility and the fact that his spells are relatively easy to cast. That is why casting many spells per magic phase is the way to overwhelm even the more powerful enemy wizards. It is also important to know what spells you really want to get through and plan the spells casting order accordingly.

2. There are different option to equip him and it really is the matter of personal preference. He can deal with some rank and file in close combat so he can be used more aggressively and does not always need a unit to babysit him. Of course he is not combat character so use him carefully but don't be shy to fight.

3. I run him with a Book of Hoeth a few times and what I learned is that the Books helps to keep the magic phase going. Basically, when you cast spells with 2-3 dice it helps to re-roll that single dice when you get double 1's to cast and your entire magic phase can stop with the first spell. Ability to increase casting value is a secondary benefit and in the case of the Loremaster not as prominent.

4. It does pay off to cast some spells with more dice, in particular when the winds of magic are low. For example, if you have 6 dice and your opponent has 3 it may be more beneficial to risk that one big spell like boosted searing doom to get it through as even level 4 would have hard time to dispel that with 3 dice. But that is also the reason why I like giving him Earthing Rod to be able to avoid Cascade.

So keep your options open.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#16 Post by Nicene »

Book of Hoeth actually works better for Loremaster than for any other wizard.

It's more effective for trickling low-value spells than for a couple big spells. BoH is equivalent to better than +2 to cast and dispel, and is even better when casting spells on one or two dice. Only the redundancy of many similar spells allows Loremaster to truly take advantage of this.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#17 Post by Curu Olannon »

Nicene wrote:Book of Hoeth actually works better for Loremaster than for any other wizard.

It's more effective for trickling low-value spells than for a couple big spells. BoH is equivalent to better than +2 to cast and dispel, and is even better when casting spells on one or two dice. Only the redundancy of many similar spells allows Loremaster to truly take advantage of this.
While true in principle, an L4 with High also benefits tremendously from the Book. Same for Life, as the majority of the spells in both of these lores can be trickled to great effect, granted that you can benefit from at least either their effects or the lore attribute.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#18 Post by Nicene »

Let's be honest: any wizard would benefit tremendously from The Book. I'm just saying it's particularly powerful (necessary?) on the Loremaster.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#19 Post by Curu Olannon »

It makes the Loremaster go from "meh" to "good", in terms of offense. Defensively it´s about the same as an L4, so the boost for an L2 is very good.

A High Magic mage with a trickle strategy however is a completely different prospect. With the book, he goes from "strong" to "unstoppable". Apart from poor winds or a scroll, he can almost always force through enough spells to land at least 2 spells. Coupled with any kind of a starting ward save on the unit he´s in, this is nasty.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#20 Post by Lord Anathir »

The problem is those 2 spells are often d6 st4 hits.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#21 Post by Celoril Le'fer »

I have been using a Loremaster in my latest games (mostly MSU) with a Talisman of Preservation and Book of Hoeth, and usually field him in a unit of White Lions. I really like the swiss-armyknife-like utility of this character.

The other character I have is a BSB, so no scroll caddy for me. But most spells can only target a single unit, and for a full MSU army any unit is virtually expendable.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#22 Post by sparkytrypod »

SpellArcher wrote:How many guys take a scroll on him and of those who don't, how many take a mage with a scroll?

lvl 4 high mage, book, talisman of pres
loremaster, scroll, merwyrm shield, sword of anti heroes

I thinks its got most situations covered! people will throw loads of dice to stop arcane/WBW/fiery, which leaves dice free for your loremaster to nip a spell or 2 through.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#23 Post by Curu Olannon »

Lord Anathir wrote:The problem is those 2 spells are often d6 st4 hits.
Was that directed to my reply..?
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#24 Post by Ferny »

I think he's good, but I wouldn't take him without the book. Lots of folks then go for 4++ talisman (I think 2+ AS is good too if he goes in BotWD unit) but you can give him the parry shield much cheaper (with an obligatory magic sword tax) to free up points for utility items.

I'm tempted to try him alongside a Lv4, probably death.
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Re: Thoughts on the Loremaster?

#25 Post by Asur1985 »

I rarely take him, although he was my only caster in my recent club tournament which i won all 3 games. My list was an infantry build, 30 spears, 21 SM and 22 PG. Supported by skycutter and tiranoc chariot, 2 x rbt, 10 archers, bsb and 5 ERs.

I used him to buff the unit i most needed in combat, especially the Beasts and Light spells. They are awesome.
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