Assistance Building a List: a Question of Specials

[TheItalian567]

This might be something for the army lists forum, but I figure that's more for lists that are made. This is aimed more at opening up the discussion and tactics behind special units. I'm having an issue narrowing down my choices and I wanted to get some feedback on how you guys go about choosing which specials go into your army.

I know it really comes down to flavor, but that's my problem. I LOVE our special choices. The biggest issue I have with High Elves is that I love all of their units. The fluff for everything is so incredible that I want a glittering host of every model ha. I know I can proxy the ones I like more than others (i.e. DP proxy as SH) but I'm still struggling.

Right now, I'm running into an issue squeezing an archmage, a prince, LSG/Spearmen, a frostie, cav bus, PGs and WLs into a list. I have SMs but they just don't seem to make the cut. Once they get into combat, it's awesome, but I'm lucky if I get in at 50% strength.

Current list is: archmage, prince w/ 7x SH bus, 5 dps, 22 lsg, 20 sm, 11 archers, 10 reavers, 6 shadow warriors, bsb, mage, noble on GE all for 2498pts

Going exactly what I mentioned above I realize that I have no board control with shooting. As I squeeze in either archers or RBTs, I start to lose out on my specials. So I just sort of bottleneck myself in one place. I know it comes down to "what kind of army do I want?" I thought I wanted just strict cavalry, but I'm finding our special infantry isn't something to pass up on..

Any feedback you gents could provide or other critical questions I'm not thinking of to help me narrow things down on my own would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the models I currently own... I have intentions of buying a frostie and some RBTs soon so keep that in mind:

• 22 LSG
  18 spearmen (much prefer the LSG models so I just proxy them one way or another and I'll be buying more.. I figure an ideal core block is 25 to 30 spear/lsg)
  36 archers
  16 Silver Helms
  20 Swordmasters
  20 White Lions
  20 Phoenix Guard
  6 shadow warriors (old metal beauties)
  1 lion chariot
  prince
  bsb
  loremaster
  2 IoB mages
  2 IoB nobles on griffon
  10 ellyrion reavers
  5 dragon princes

Trying to stay in the 2500 pt range.

The overarching question to all of this? What specials do you go with and why?

[John Rainbow]

PG are by far the most popular choice right now it would seem. This is simply because they alone of the elite infantry still get ASF and obviously the 4++ makes them a tough unit to take out. The others, SM & WL, obviously have uses but require a bit more thought in how/when they are employed. They can all be competitive and made to work though.

As to your list it seems like you are trying to get too much in there. You have a lot of different units, all of which are fairly small and easy to deal with on their own. I would try to focus your list a bit more and buff the sizes of your units. We do have a range of great units but in reality, although the points let you get as many of them into a list as possible, this isn't generally the best idea as it leads to some of the problems you are encountering.

[TheItalian567]

I agree, my current actual list consists of the models i previously only had. I've since purchased a good deal from a friend hence the reworking of my list.

My last list was basically me taking all of my models and doing everything I could to reach 2500 pts to start playing games and getting a feel for things. Hence why I have 4 characters, a tiny cav bus and lots of random choices it's fun though! it's the list that beat Nagash and Ogres 1:2 (w:l).Just barely lost to Lizardmen this past weekend.

[John Rainbow]

Can you post the list in a bit more detail please? Then we can talk about it a bit more.

[TheItalian567]

Absolutely. Figured it might be a bit too much to add in with the post. Pretty standard run of the mill while I really develop a play style.

Prince w/ Cav Bus
Archmage + BSB w/ SMs (SMs have shrieking blade just to add more points to 2500. also, i fight ogres a lot.)
Mage w/ Archers (but thinking he's better suited with LSG)

High Elves Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2480

• Lords:
  Prince 257 pts
  - Elven Steed
  - Ithilmar Barding
  - Dragon Armor
  - Ogre Blade
  - Enchanted Shield
  - Dawnstone
  
  Archmage 285 pts SHADOW MAGIC
  - Level 4 Upgrade
  - Book of Hoeth
  - Golden Crown of Atrazar
  
  Heroes:
  
  Mage 145pts - HIGH MAGIC
  - Level 2 Upgrade 35
  - Dispel Scroll
  
  Noble 159 pts
  - Great Weapon
  - Dragon Armour
  - Battle Standard Bearer
  - Shield of the Merwyrm
  - Crown of Command
  
  Noble 194 pts
  - Great Weapon
  - Dragon Armour
  - Great Eagle - ASF/AP upgrades
  - Reaver Bow
  - Opal Amulet
  - Ironcurse Icon
  
  Core:
  
  Lothern Sea Guard x22 294pts + FC + Shields
  
  Archers x13 130 pts
  
  Silver Helms x7 191 pts + FC
  
  Ellyrian Reavers x5 95 pts
  
  Ellyrian Reavers x5 95 pts
  
  Special:
  
  Sword Masters of Hoeth x20 345 pts + FC
  - Shrieking Blade
  - Razor Standard
  
  Shadow Warriors x5 70 pts
  
  Dragon Princes x5 220 pts + FC
  - Star Lance
  - Banner of Swiftness

[John Rainbow]

Ah, should have said we're not allowed to post individual points costs for items on the forum so please remove those if you can first. You might also find it more helpful to layout lists in terms of Lords, Heroes, Core, Special, Rare in that order.

After that, onto the list!

[John Rainbow]

As I said before, I think the issue is in trying to get too many things into this one list. I would look to remove the eagle noble for a start (or re-purpose him to being a cav-noble) as he has conflicting roles as it stands. On the one hand he has the Reaver Bow but is then always going to be moving to be able to support the other units.

Conventional wisdom would have it that LSG or spears need to be at least 30(ish) strong to be effective. I would combine the archers and LSG into this kind of unit if you can and use any extra points to give the SHs a few more bodies too.

The DPs are ok but represent a very large points investment that might not be worth it in the end - is it really that hard to kill off 5 2+ AS cavalry? Generally the answer is no. Even a single decent magic missile can do it and the loss of even a couple of these guys will be painful and prevent the unit from functioning. I also think the items you are using on some of the units might need to be changed, for instance from the Razor Standard to the BotWD!

For the moment I will refrain from posting a list as I think it could be useful for you to develop something on your own but I would definitely take a look around here and see what other people are running. A lot of posters have been using combined arms lists that would probably fit what you are looking for. Try looking at the blogs of Malossar Dragonborne, Curu and Seredain for some ideas!

[TheItalian567]

Ah, should have said we're not allowed to post individual points costs for items on the forum so please remove those if you can first. You might also find it more helpful to layout lists in terms of Lords, Heroes, Core, Special, Rare in that order.

After that, onto the list!

Apologies! All fixed. I imported it from army builder and it got all wonky

As I said before, I think the issue is in trying to get too many things into this one list. I would look to remove the eagle noble for a start (or re-purpose him to being a cav-noble) as he has conflicting roles as it stands. On the one hand he has the Reaver Bow but is then always going to be moving to be able to support the other units.

I totally agree and that's where my problem is. A lot of what's in that list is just to hit the 2500 pt cap.. The noble for instance would not even be in the list had I the models to reach the cap

I've looked at their blogs a lot and I still find a purpose for all of the units, just like they do. My question really boils down to how do all of you decide which specials you want to run? Is it flavor of the month? purely aesthetics? trial and error?

I just need some help making that push, one way or another, towards some solid specials. I also agree with your sentiment about the LSG. they'll be 30 strong eventually as either LSG or spearmen.

As far as DPs, I run them more to flank with a main combat block. I made a post DPs last week (which I believe you posted on) and it really helped me find a place for them in my army as I was struggling. The ideas ya'll gave me helped me formulate a strategy to help me use them.

I think I struggle between a cavalry based army or a strong infantry based army.. and the result is a list with a cav bus and an anvil unit withotu either being particularly strong as I'm making room for the other.