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 Post subject: Questions about Chariots
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:35 pm 
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I bought 3 chariots recently. I built one as lion and one as horse and will test them out before I build the third one. My questions are:

1. Which chariot is better? Why? What do I use them for?

2. Do I run them in units, or alone?

3. Is it ever worth throwing a character into a chariot? If so, which type?

Thanks in advance!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Green Istari

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Well for question 3 I ran a Prince in a chariot under the old book. He worked well enough. A few guys have tried it with this book and found encouraging signs. It could do with some testing.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:52 am 
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elthran wrote:
I bought 3 chariots recently. I built one as lion and one as horse and will test them out before I build the third one. My questions are:

1. Which chariot is better? Why? What do I use them for?

2. Do I run them in units, or alone?

3. Is it ever worth throwing a character into a chariot? If so, which type?

Thanks in advance!


1) Depends. Taken on its own, the White Lion Chariot is better. Has a better armour save, hits harder from both the crew and the lions pulling it. Stubborn. Causes fear. But, the Tiranoc Chariot is cheaper, does just as much damage in impact hits, is ALMOST as survivable, considering it has the exact same stat line except a one point weaker armour save. I guess value/pt is going to depend on how you want to use them. Tiranoc chariots are great for clearing chaff, and clearing war machine hunters. White lion chariots are good for that too, but can contribute in combats with tougher enemies due to the high strength attacks.

2) Tiranoc Chariots are the only ones that can be run in a unit, and there's really no point. All you get from it is reduced tactical flexibility. If you have 2 chariots in a group, they both have to charge the same target, they have to move to the same locations, etc. You don't get ranks, you don't deny ranks, you don't get to distribute wounds in any way that increases their survivability. If they were 2 individuals, they could do everything they could as a group, with the flexibility of having the option of moving in different directions, fighting different targets, etc.

3) Well, a character can only be mounted in a Tiranoc Chariot. Korhil can go in a white lion chariot, but that's it. A tiranoc mount for a character doesn't really add much that a barded elven steed or eagle wouldn't do better. It only adds 1 pt of armour save to the character, so makes it impossible to reach a 1+, is a much easier target for war machines due to the larger base, won't grant you a look out sir, makes it so you can't join a unit, and you can't march. And all you're really getting in return for losing all that is d6 S5 impact hits, and a de facto ward against shooting (since randomizing will usually hit the chariot). For less points, you could mount him on an eagle, getting him flying, he can march, increases his toughness to 4, increases a noble's wounds to 3, gets stronger attacks from the mount, adds a stomp, and you can still join a unit if you want.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:42 am 
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I ran a Lion Chariot at a small tournament some months ago. Against the first Tomb Kings it died to casket before combat, against the others he rolled across the table and ate a unit of archers.
There should have been a third but I can't remember it.

In a unit the Tiranocs lose free reforms - it's a rule for single models, not chariots. I haven't tried, but it would appear they'd be really difficult to manouver. The advantage is if you'll cast augments on them you'll get more for the spell.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:29 am 
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Green Istari

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The big difference between a chariot rider and the eagle guy is that all hits from MM's, BS shooting, Screams etc go straight against the 3 wounds of the eagle rider. On a chariot that damage is spread across 7 wounds, 4 of which you don't care about losing because they cost 70pts. Cannon are not terminal because you take Charmed Shield and the 4+ Ward (and Dragon Armour). Again, you care much less about losing the mount than you would a monster for example. The flight means the eagle rider can risk dropping Charmed Shield for a 2+ AS but that is all. A horsed guy works very well with a unit but has to be more careful if he wants the flexibility of leaving it. I've played plenty of games where multiple Impact Hits over several combats have made a big difference.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:53 am 
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I played a few fluffy games with a chariot prince, he was great fun

Code:

    * Prince (318pts)
        Heavy Armor, Lance, Tiranoc Chariot
        * Magic Items
            (AB) The Reaver Bow, (BRB) Charmed Shield, (BRB) Potion of Strength, (BRB) Talisman of Preservation





Decent defense, S6 on the charge, can always fire the reaver bow cos he doesn't march. Potion lets him boost his bow strength or his combat strength. The only other change could be khaines ring for more shooting and boosting wards.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:17 am 
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I agree pretty much.

I'd take GW instead of lance and Dragon Armour (though that may impact the Lords cap). Ring is interesting and I feel OTS is a decent shout because it works for the Impact Hits. There's a lot you can do with magic, Enchanted Blades is very effective as is Wildform. Savage Beast is just rude.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Others disagree, but I'm a fan of a unit of three TIranoc chariots. With 6 bows, it can clear it's own chaff, and combined with a beasts mage is devastating on the charge. It does require target saturation, as it can be mopped up quickly by bolt throwers or cannons, but when has it been a hardship to take two frosties? It does take the chariot out of the chaff/light unit category, putting them in the medium support instead. Don't rely on it to break a main combat unit, but it can take out heavy chaff, light and medium units, even break monstrous cav, and flank charges are where it rules the battle field. Combine with a fire mage to decimate regen units (dragon mage for target saturation??? AND guaranteed Flaming Sword?), beasts or metal for heavy armor, there are all sorts of great synergies.

As far as characters, it has to be the lion chariot. They can't join a unit, and will likely have to grind on their own, and the extra pip of armor will help against bow fire. I recommend a wardsave and halberd. It doesn't hit as hard, but as an all comers weapon, I find it more important to have the re-rolls than going from S5 - S6. And with the wardsave, he's not helpless if he gets the chariot shot out from under him.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:19 am 
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GrinningB@est wrote:
Others disagree, but I'm a fan of a unit of three TIranoc chariots. With 6 bows, it can clear it's own chaff, and combined with a beasts mage is devastating on the charge. It does require target saturation, as it can be mopped up quickly by bolt throwers or cannons, but when has it been a hardship to take two frosties? It does take the chariot out of the chaff/light unit category, putting them in the medium support instead. Don't rely on it to break a main combat unit, but it can take out heavy chaff, light and medium units, even break monstrous cav, and flank charges are where it rules the battle field. Combine with a fire mage to decimate regen units (dragon mage for target saturation??? AND guaranteed Flaming Sword?), beasts or metal for heavy armor, there are all sorts of great synergies.

As far as characters, it has to be the lion chariot. They can't join a unit, and will likely have to grind on their own, and the extra pip of armor will help against bow fire. I recommend a wardsave and halberd. It doesn't hit as hard, but as an all comers weapon, I find it more important to have the re-rolls than going from S5 - S6. And with the wardsave, he's not helpless if he gets the chariot shot out from under him.


Only Korhil can be mounted in a lion chariot, all other characters can only choose the Tiranoc one (with the obvious exception of the sea helm).

And everything you listed as a benefit of having 3 in a unit, could be achieved with 3 individual chariots as well (although as noted earlier, I suppose they are harder to buff...)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:29 am 
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I have had great fun using a unit of three tiranocs in my star dragon army. The before mentioned target saturation helps a lot here since I also bring a flame & frost phoenix as well as a unit of silver helms with a noble. Pointswise the unit could be substituted for dragon princes though, which would allow a magical banner.

for characters on chariots you do have the third option of a seahelm on a skycutter and he comes with an inbuilt ward save. I just thought to mention him so you have all your chariot choices to consider.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Viale wrote:
I have had great fun using a unit of three tiranocs in my star dragon army. The before mentioned target saturation helps a lot here since I also bring a flame & frost phoenix as well as a unit of silver helms with a noble. Pointswise the unit could be substituted for dragon princes though, which would allow a magical banner.

for characters on chariots you do have the third option of a seahelm on a skycutter and he comes with an inbuilt ward save. I just thought to mention him so you have all your chariot choices to consider.


Just to be super clear for the OP, the built in ward is only against shooting attacks for the skycutter.


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