Tips for using High Elves

[lost user 8]

Hi people

The back ground for this is that Im heading over to a reasonably large event in July and after careful consideration of all the elf books have decided to work on a High Elf army.......and while gripped by a sudden bout of insanity decided to submit them as my list for the event despite the project being very much work in progress.

The list is below and I'm excited to be playing with it (loads of unit types, not too many points in any one place, balance of infantry, cav, and shooting), however I have only had two practice games with it and am unlikley to get more than one or two more before the event. As such I need to take a short cut with my learnings. The list has been submitted so cant be changed:

Noble (general, heavy armour, lance, shield, dragon helm, luck stone, barded steed)
BSB (heavy armour, enchanted shield, dawnstone, lance, barded steed)
13 silver helms (shields, musician)
13 silver helms (shields, musician)
21 white lions (banner)
21 white lions (banner, banner of the world dragon)
21 phoenix guard (banner)
10 sisters
9 sisters
3 bolt throwers
2 eagles
Total 2400ish

Almost all of my experiance against the high elves so far has been with daemons and thus consists of "desperately block the dragon banner unit and kill everything else taking as little damage as possible". Now for the most part this probably isnt a very good reflection of the high elf strengths and weaknesses, nor does it give me much to go on in regards to how their units actually preform on the field......and this kind of thing leads to bad desisions in game.

To the crux of it all - please help me not disgrace myself by telling me all about the surprising real life capabilities of the high elf units (preferably from the list above......I dont really need to know how great frost hearts are since Im not using any). Anything about units being surprisingly good or bad at, or things the army might strugle to deal with in reality compared to how it looks on paper.

Thanks

p.s. wasnt sure is this should be in the tactics forum or the army lists forum since its a bit of both.

[lost user 9]

I have recently just finished a game against dwarves and their organ guns ripped my silver helms apart. so just be wary of artillery if you happen to be fighting empire or dwarves. Hope this helps.

[Rexhavoc]

There are just so many HE tactics tips that you are probably better off reading through the outstanding HE tactics articles for general and unit specific tips. As for this thread why don't we just start with the list you've posted? That narrows it down. Should probably move this to 'army lists'

My play style leans towards a mixed infantry/cav with strong shooting support list similar to what you have posted so I can appreciate what you are going for. I also tend to go character light but not that light.

The 1st thing that jumps out at me is no magic. The magic phase in WHF just can't be ignored. The lack of spell options or any kind of magc defense (not including BoWD) is going to be rough unless u will be playing vs all Dwarfs. You're going to make a lot of magic heavy list players very happy when they find out it will be a magic free for all if u want to stay character light get rid of the noble general and bunker a level 4 Archmage in your BoWD unit. I would even suggest a level 2 with the dispel scroll but you could still do well with just the AM if he has the BoH. The Book of Hoeth is one of the best arcane items. Take it for a spin. You'll like it. The Lore is up to you and is dependent on ur style, list, preference, and strategy. If you want a no frills lore that is a good toolbox and will go a long way to keeping ur BoWD unit alive then take a look at High Magic. Shadow, Death , and Life also work well with HE but every lore has it's merits (well maybe not fire so much)

You seem light on command. Musicians are a great investment for your units. Fast cav can do without but I would have them in those expensive blocks of infantry. Unit,champs can be very valuable. Have them in your units that have characters at a minimum u may want even more. There are several situations where issuing or accepting challenges with your unit champ can save a character or even the entire unit. Sure a scary DP is going to eat him alive and get overkill points but those points are just combat rez. In the end u only lost one model which means you'll keep steadfast and hold out another combat phase or two unit help arrives. The champs can also help protect characters you don't want in a challenge.

Razor Standard goes a long way to improve the offensive capabilities of the Phoenix Guard. If you can scrounge up the 45 points it's worth it. It takes them to the next level on offense.

There's much more but I'll stop there and see what others offer up. This post is already too long
Cheers and welcome to High Elves

[lost user 8]

Thanks for the reply s guys, its a vague thing I have asked about so I appreciate it.

Im not looking for tactics specifically, but more surprises that come from experience. Some examples from my most recent games:
silver helms grind against weak units surprisingly well. ASF really helps them keep dealing damage after the first round.
While re-rolls to hit make it feel like we dish out tones of damage we still only have a few attacks. Helms again, I charged a couple of units into some executioners, did a fair bit of damage but not enough and got smashed in return.
Warmachines are a real pain to deal with using shooting, our shooting time might be better spent shooting better targets and we just weather the counter fire until enemy machines can be dealt with (this may be because I have a freakishly numerous army for elves)
white lions are not mighty slayers of everything in combat.....enemy elven archers are depressingly effective against them in return.

Rexhavoc – yes I have always been a fan of armies light on characters.....what can I say, I like units. No magic doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, over the last two years I have only run a mage seriously at a single tournament (and I get to 5-8 per year). It takes a bit of getting used to but I like the extra units I get instead. I'll be interested to see if this hurts me more or less than it does with daemons (elves look to be vulnerable to more spells, but none of the matchups are as bad as the bad ones for daemons if that makes sense). Having said that the high elves do have some wonderful wizarding options so I might get tempted back to the dark side!

More command would be nice, but I don't know where I would get the points. I normally play without until I decide I absolutely need it in certain spots. There will always be times I wish I had a musician for this or that particular reform or pip of LD to rally, but the vast majority of the time with a bit of planning and care I don’t notice their absence.......and skimping on full command in this army gets me both the eagles.

Razor standard would be great.....but points...the never ending problem.

I was thinking of turning this thread into a series of battle reports once I have finished building the army and have a bit more time to write them up. Is that a tactics or army list form thing?

[Nicene]

Be very careful with your sisters against magic missiles and low str shooting. It's sometimes better to deploy them back a bit; even if you have to move them into range your first turn, it's better than not getting to use them at all.

[Nicene]

I think your list is fine and will give you lots of weapons. Your only realy poor choice, in my opinion, is your general--for a couple more points you could get a decked out mage, who can really influence the game. As it is, though, the list is set, so let's see. . .

Even with your investment in rare shooting, I'd estimate you'll still be at a ranged disadvantage against most foes, so you'll want to be pretty agressive.

One good option may be to look for a weighted-flank approach, with PG central, eagles to redirect, and the lions and helms arrayed on one side to sweep through it.

[Nicene]

The basic idea with high elves is that they're not great at sustained combat, and it's dificult or inefficient to construct units that can reliably defeat enemy combat blocks head-to-head. Certainly nothing in your list is going to waltz up to a gutstar and grind through it.

So you have to use our advantages--speed, small footprint, redirection, leadership, reliable (though not stratospherically powerful) shooting and magic--to orchestrate advantageous combats where you can isolate, outnumber, flank, or even surroud enemy units and defeat them piecemeal.

So make sure your helms are helping by facilitating combo charges and cascade combats (overruns), and that you're using your shooting to destroy his redirectors so that your three big infantry blocks can get good combats they are sure to win.