Advice for being outnumbered?

[razzeldazle]

So I'm a little new to High Elves, and I'm doing a campaign at my LGS. I have a battle this round vs WoC, and unfortunately, I have 1500 points, he has 2300.

Any advice on how to make some of that difference up? I know he likes to use a horde of Warriors and a unit of 10 knights.

[Sackree]

Wow that is quite a point difference, he can fit a lot into that list.

Being a campaign is there anything specific that you have to take in your list?

You will need to play our strengths against his weaknesses. warriors are a very expensive army and have little to know shooting, so instinctively I would put him in a position that forces him to come to you, 4 bolt throwers mixed with some units of reavers in your core would be enough to shoot off a lot of his units whilst delaying others, allowing for your combat units to deal with his one at a time.

I like the sound of Lore of Metal against him as well, it melts chariots, knights and chimeras. Final transmutation will trim the edges of that expensive horde of warriors (Assuming 30 marked, halberd and shield warriors that unit is 600 points that you can make sure never sees combat) and the other combat buffs help your damage output and survivability.

I also like phoenix guard for a combat block. They are our only special infantry that will hit first and reroll against him. Also with banner of world dragon on them they make the knights ensorcelled weapons worthless.


+++ 1500 vs woc (1494pts) +++
+++ 1500pt High Elves 8th Ed Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

High Elves 8th Ed (Standard) Selections:

+ Lords + (320pts)

* Archmage (320pts)
Level 4 Wizard, Lore of Metal
* Magic Items
(AB) Book of Hoeth, (BRB) Talisman of Preservation


+ Heroes + (134pts)

* Noble (134pts)
Battle Standard, Heavy Armor
* Magic Items
(AB) Shield of the Myrwyrm, (BRB) Sword of Might


+ Core + (380pts)

* Archers (170pts)
16x Archer, Longbow, Musician


* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts)
Elven Steed, Light Armor, Musician
* 5x Ellyrian Reaver
5x Spears and Bows


* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts)
Elven Steed, Light Armor, Musician
* 5x Ellyrian Reaver
5x Spears and Bows


+ Special + (380pts)

* Phoenix Guard (380pts)
Halberd, Heavy Armor, Keeper of the Flame, Musician, 20x Phoenix Guard
* Standard Bearer
(AB) Banner of the World Dragon


+ Rare + (280pts)

* Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (70pts)
Light Armor


* Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (70pts)
Light Armor


* Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (70pts)
Light Armor


* Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (70pts)
Light Armor



Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)


This list provides you with a lot of fire power and redirectors whilst keeping half your points inside a unit that is incredibly tough to shift and practically immune to daemon princes, ensorcelled weapons, hell cannons etc and still maintains a good damage output, especially with magic buffs from lore of metal.

[Dalamar]

800 points of difference is somewhat massive.

In such a matchup, avoidance, avoidance, avoidance. All reavers core, shadow warriors and skycutters in special, eagles rare. If it doesnt move, don't take it. He can safely have two units to each one of yours and plenty more magic so bring at least a scroll caddy (level 4 might prove to be too expensive for 1500 but I'd take one anyway to counter his magic) a character on eagle might come in handy to finish off any units that are near death.

Other than that good luck! You'll need it.

[Alcibiates]

Do you have access to the rest of his list? The presence of a daemon prince and/or skullcrushers could heavily effect list construction. Also things would heavily change if he's playing high numbers of chariots.

The first thing to notice is that at 1500, you can only fit one frost phoenix. There's not enough room for a second one in rare, nor is there space for a lord or hero ridden phoenix. This hurts, but also puts us on a pretty clear path in terms of list design.

If you know you only need the list once, and only against warriors, my first thought would be to build out an Alarielle list, with your core at 375, we have something like 1125 that we could pour into a white lion alarielle death star. It's a risky build but it's a game that necessitates some risks to win--trying to play a fair game 800 points down is not going to result in a win.

[Dalamar]

Except alarielle list is likely to get outmanoeuvered and stomped into dirt. It is 800 pojnts difference.

[Alcibiates]

I don't think it should get heavily out-manuevered. If you can land a forbidden rod phase early in the game, get off double banishment and clean up a unit or two, it makes the rest of the game pretty easy. Against warriors Alarielle's unit gets the benefit of being able to let the skullcrushers and the daemon prince through, because they just don't do enough in combat because they can't get through the Banner while white-lions are doing plenty of damage back. Then you add in light buffs and you're looking at Warriors hitting on 5's with a 2++ save--it's easy to grind through both the DP and the Skullcrushers in a turn or two.

With banishment up you can drop most of the knight bus and you're really only left needing to fight the warrior block, which I would just do your best to avoid and/or chaff. You will still likely have Timewarp available to you, which means you can out-manuever the warrior block pretty easily with 20" marches.

[pk-ng]

I don't think it should get heavily out-manuevered. If you can land a forbidden rod phase early in the game, get off double banishment and clean up a unit or two, it makes the rest of the game pretty easy. Against warriors Alarielle's unit gets the benefit of being able to let the skullcrushers and the daemon prince through, because they just don't do enough in combat because they can't get through the Banner while white-lions are doing plenty of damage back. Then you add in light buffs and you're looking at Warriors hitting on 5's with a 2++ save--it's easy to grind through both the DP and the Skullcrushers in a turn or two.

With banishment up you can drop most of the knight bus and you're really only left needing to fight the warrior block, which I would just do your best to avoid and/or chaff. You will still likely have Timewarp available to you, which means you can out-manuever the warrior block pretty easily with 20" marches.

Why would the WoC player get ensorcelled weapons on the crushers if this is a tailored game? If I were the WoC player I would probably bring. Lvl 4, Crushers, Chimeras. Whatever else I could fit maybe even Throgg.

[Pablo]

You are using the wrong elvesfor full avoidance/pick points out.
I would go for characters on eagles, 4 bolt throwers, and all fast cav/skirmishers aside and just pick off points. 10 knights is actually kind of soft with metal magic and if he can't catch you, he can't kill you in combat.
Sackree is right about metal magic though. Easieest way to pick up points.

[razzeldazle]

Thanks for all the advice, finally played this game today, and in the closing turns managed to pull out a win.

I started out strong, taking out 10 knights with my sword masters, and 1 skullcrusher with a bolt thrower (unfortunately I only have 2, not the 4 that was recommended). But his Warrior unit led by Valkia and Festus wiped out almost all of my army. But a timely Final Transmutation turned both of them and most of their unit to gold, and that in turn turned enough people around them stupid that he couldn't charge and finish me off.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi razzeldazle,

Congratulations! It was an uphill battle from the very start but it is even sweeter to pull out a victory! Well done! I wish I had an opportunity to watch a game like that, hopefully you will be able to share more highlights!

Thanks for sharing!

[Asmodian]

Congratz! But also be warned. You won not by maneuver or unit selection but by magic - and this thingy is somewhat unpredictable.

My advice is the same as the rest of players here - move.
If you hit thouse knights early and eliminate the threat presented by his mobile element, his infantry will not catch your flying monsters, chariots and cav alone, while you can combine their action to kill his units one by one.

4RBTs is too much. They have good potential but it also makes you more static. It makes less problem, when you both have the same ammount of points and also if points available for both of you are 2000+, but 4RBTs on 1500army is 20% of points. Very fragile 20%.

If it doesnt move, don't take it.

Except alarielle list is likely to get outmanoeuvered and stomped into dirt. It is 800 pojnts difference.

I disagree. It is possible with normal, non named characters.