Lore of Heavens
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Lore of Heavens
Hello all,
I am a new starter and still getting my head around magic lores. And it seems like Heavens has taken the back row compared to others. When I read the spells I can see good use for almost each spell but I'm not sure if I'm thinking too situational and missing the bigger picture.
With this lore you can be a real bane to war machines and may even wind blast them off the table (by the way can you use wind blast to push units off the table??) or delay the enemy reaching you. Strong damage spells look good as well.
I'm looking for some advice from you, have you used this lore? Your thoughts on the lore please.
Thank you in advance
I am a new starter and still getting my head around magic lores. And it seems like Heavens has taken the back row compared to others. When I read the spells I can see good use for almost each spell but I'm not sure if I'm thinking too situational and missing the bigger picture.
With this lore you can be a real bane to war machines and may even wind blast them off the table (by the way can you use wind blast to push units off the table??) or delay the enemy reaching you. Strong damage spells look good as well.
I'm looking for some advice from you, have you used this lore? Your thoughts on the lore please.
Thank you in advance
Re: Lore of Heavens
It's a good support lore, but I wouldn't necessarily take it on a level 4 wizard.
As for the wind blast, you can only get off the table by either fleeing, or pursuing off of it.
As for the wind blast, you can only get off the table by either fleeing, or pursuing off of it.
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Re: Lore of Heavens
was using a loremaster with lvl3 death but tried lvl3 heavens the other day and saved my ass vs woodelves when my loremaster went down a hole turn2.
Drew comet, harmonic & thunderbolt and was great
Drew comet, harmonic & thunderbolt and was great
Twitter: @chumphammer
Old WFB coming to give AoS a real try for a while.
Old WFB coming to give AoS a real try for a while.
Re: Lore of Heavens
I'm currently experimenting with alot of different list but the by far most successfull one runs a lvl 4 heavens.
Heavens is severely awesome;
Urannons is great against flyers and other monsters or knights even which is basicly everything i usually have a struggle against
Comet is great for taking out warmachines or just to dictate where your opponent needs to move.
Chain lightning is the same as Urannons except that it bounces, I dont know how many turn 6 that it saved my ass because it managed to kille 2-3 units with 2-3 guys left in them.
The buffs and debuffs are also quite amazing both for cc and for ranged.
I think the main reason that people shy away from heavens is because it doesnt have a dwellers/finaltransmutation/purple sun kind of spell.
But on the other hand its much more flexible then most lores and it has very low cast values.
Heavens is my personal favourite
Heavens is severely awesome;
Urannons is great against flyers and other monsters or knights even which is basicly everything i usually have a struggle against
Comet is great for taking out warmachines or just to dictate where your opponent needs to move.
Chain lightning is the same as Urannons except that it bounces, I dont know how many turn 6 that it saved my ass because it managed to kille 2-3 units with 2-3 guys left in them.
The buffs and debuffs are also quite amazing both for cc and for ranged.
I think the main reason that people shy away from heavens is because it doesnt have a dwellers/finaltransmutation/purple sun kind of spell.
But on the other hand its much more flexible then most lores and it has very low cast values.
Heavens is my personal favourite
Re: Lore of Heavens
0.Iceshard Blizzard: Decent hex to use in almost every situation. Warmachines will only fire at all on a 4+, BS shooting get's -1 to hit.
In CC, it's -1 to hit me and target also get's -1 to LD. Getting off 2 of these is almost a guaranteed victory in that combat for my side.
1. Harmonic Covergence: THE spell to have for White Lions/Bolt Throwers/Swordmasters. White Lions and Swordmasters get the re-roll they desperately need, Bolt throwers get a decent support to their shooting.
2. Wind Blast: Very situational. First spell to be switched to Iceshard, unless some extreme situation can be found.
3. Curse of the Midnight Wind: If I know there is poisons/killing blows in my opponents army, keep it. If not, can be switched.
4. Thunderbolt: Decent missile. Keep or Switch depending on if Chain Lightning has been rolled.
5. Comet of Cassandora: Too much of a gamble. Hasn't done anything significant in this edition, keep or switch depending on situation.
6. Chain Lightning: Keep in almost every situation. Unless your opponent is really spread out with only a handful of models in his entire army, this spell with soften up alot of stuff. Using ETC FAQ's atleast, this spell can jump into units in Close Combat, as long as the initial target is still using the normal Direct Damage regulations. Granted, jumping is quite of a gamble.
I'm using heavens in my current roster, and I really don't think I can make it work without Heavens. 4 Bolt throwers, 2 x 10 Swordmasters and 23 White Lions means I can put Harmonic Convergence to good use in almost every turn. When in fear of Cannons, having an Iceshard Blizzard or two can save my Frosty a few times, aswell as control my opponents firepower. Curse of the Midnight Wind is also very effective for poison/killing blow protection, Chain lightning deals with high toughness/armour save targets, Thunderbolt the same, Comet has many uses. Wind blast is still a weird spell, and I've yet to use it effectively (actually, use it at all).
All in all, it has alot of uses in all situations, though I feel the attribute is a lackluster, it's almost never done any good ( did put 1 extra wound on a Bloodthirster and Frostheart Phoenix once). The real issue is to use the correct spell in any situation, and if one doesn't go through have another spell in reserve. My roster has an Archmage level 4 of Heaves, and Mage level 2 of Heaves, maximizing my chances of getting Harmonic Convergence, and if possible having 2 Iceshards.
In CC, it's -1 to hit me and target also get's -1 to LD. Getting off 2 of these is almost a guaranteed victory in that combat for my side.
1. Harmonic Covergence: THE spell to have for White Lions/Bolt Throwers/Swordmasters. White Lions and Swordmasters get the re-roll they desperately need, Bolt throwers get a decent support to their shooting.
2. Wind Blast: Very situational. First spell to be switched to Iceshard, unless some extreme situation can be found.
3. Curse of the Midnight Wind: If I know there is poisons/killing blows in my opponents army, keep it. If not, can be switched.
4. Thunderbolt: Decent missile. Keep or Switch depending on if Chain Lightning has been rolled.
5. Comet of Cassandora: Too much of a gamble. Hasn't done anything significant in this edition, keep or switch depending on situation.
6. Chain Lightning: Keep in almost every situation. Unless your opponent is really spread out with only a handful of models in his entire army, this spell with soften up alot of stuff. Using ETC FAQ's atleast, this spell can jump into units in Close Combat, as long as the initial target is still using the normal Direct Damage regulations. Granted, jumping is quite of a gamble.
I'm using heavens in my current roster, and I really don't think I can make it work without Heavens. 4 Bolt throwers, 2 x 10 Swordmasters and 23 White Lions means I can put Harmonic Convergence to good use in almost every turn. When in fear of Cannons, having an Iceshard Blizzard or two can save my Frosty a few times, aswell as control my opponents firepower. Curse of the Midnight Wind is also very effective for poison/killing blow protection, Chain lightning deals with high toughness/armour save targets, Thunderbolt the same, Comet has many uses. Wind blast is still a weird spell, and I've yet to use it effectively (actually, use it at all).
All in all, it has alot of uses in all situations, though I feel the attribute is a lackluster, it's almost never done any good ( did put 1 extra wound on a Bloodthirster and Frostheart Phoenix once). The real issue is to use the correct spell in any situation, and if one doesn't go through have another spell in reserve. My roster has an Archmage level 4 of Heaves, and Mage level 2 of Heaves, maximizing my chances of getting Harmonic Convergence, and if possible having 2 Iceshards.
Re: Lore of Heavens
Just started using a Loremaster + level 2 Heavens with scroll/ring of fury and am loving it in the support role. I didn't realize you could double hex someone though with the same spell so looking forward to trying that! Otherwise pretty much every spell is useful (although wind blast is very dependent on the situation) with moderate casting values. Getting an Curse of the Midnight Wind combine particularly well with Iceshard =)
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Re: Lore of Heavens
The trouble I have found with heavens is that there are quite a few armies that don't fear it, which is important when play the magic phase psychology game. Comet is amazing, in the right situation - when it hits small units that can't move very fast, that meta is gone for the time being. Everything worth taking can bear the hit from a comet or is quick enough to get away from it.
Harmonic convergence and curse of the midnight wind are -okay- at best, don't chnage combats or shooting enough to excite anyone IMO
Thunderbolt is meh, like any MM if you get 6 hits at S6 its awesome, get 1 and its less than impressive.
Lightning has the same issue, the spell should give you one free bounce at least to make the extra +5 to cast on top of thunderbolt worth it.
Wind blast is just poo.
That leaves Iceshard, best spell in the lore by a long way. Trouble here is a good opponent will know this and not let you have it when it matters.
I LOVE heavens, its just so meh when actually in the game.
Stick to Light or Shadow, you will be MUCH better off.
Harmonic convergence and curse of the midnight wind are -okay- at best, don't chnage combats or shooting enough to excite anyone IMO
Thunderbolt is meh, like any MM if you get 6 hits at S6 its awesome, get 1 and its less than impressive.
Lightning has the same issue, the spell should give you one free bounce at least to make the extra +5 to cast on top of thunderbolt worth it.
Wind blast is just poo.
That leaves Iceshard, best spell in the lore by a long way. Trouble here is a good opponent will know this and not let you have it when it matters.
I LOVE heavens, its just so meh when actually in the game.
Stick to Light or Shadow, you will be MUCH better off.
Re: Lore of Heavens
Harmonic Convergence increases number of wounds caused by White Lions by 55%! From 0,555 to 0,864. It also increases the reliability of those wounds. (assuming 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound).SteVieBizzLe wrote:The trouble I have found with heavens is that there are quite a few armies that don't fear it, which is important when play the magic phase psychology game. Comet is amazing, in the right situation - when it hits small units that can't move very fast, that meta is gone for the time being. Everything worth taking can bear the hit from a comet or is quick enough to get away from it.
Harmonic convergence and curse of the midnight wind are -okay- at best, don't chnage combats or shooting enough to excite anyone IMO
Thunderbolt is meh, like any MM if you get 6 hits at S6 its awesome, get 1 and its less than impressive.
Lightning has the same issue, the spell should give you one free bounce at least to make the extra +5 to cast on top of thunderbolt worth it.
Wind blast is just poo.
That leaves Iceshard, best spell in the lore by a long way. Trouble here is a good opponent will know this and not let you have it when it matters.
I LOVE heavens, its just so meh when actually in the game.
Stick to Light or Shadow, you will be MUCH better off.
Silver Helms vs. s 3 shooting, now needs 36 wounds to die (fail one in 6, and can reroll, so 6*6), as opposed to 6. In other words, SIX times stronger vs s3.
Re: Lore of Heavens
Harmonic Convergence is "ok"?SteVieBizzLe wrote:The trouble I have found with heavens is that there are quite a few armies that don't fear it, which is important when play the magic phase psychology game. Comet is amazing, in the right situation - when it hits small units that can't move very fast, that meta is gone for the time being. Everything worth taking can bear the hit from a comet or is quick enough to get away from it.
Harmonic convergence and curse of the midnight wind are -okay- at best, don't chnage combats or shooting enough to excite anyone IMO
Thunderbolt is meh, like any MM if you get 6 hits at S6 its awesome, get 1 and its less than impressive.
Lightning has the same issue, the spell should give you one free bounce at least to make the extra +5 to cast on top of thunderbolt worth it.
Wind blast is just poo.
That leaves Iceshard, best spell in the lore by a long way. Trouble here is a good opponent will know this and not let you have it when it matters.
I LOVE heavens, its just so meh when actually in the game.
Stick to Light or Shadow, you will be MUCH better off.
It turns our WL's & SM's back into wood chippers, makes our knights tanks with an AR reroll and can majorly boost the killing power of an entire gunline at once with a bubble cast of just 12.
I agree with your other assessments though
It is hard to compete with Shadow and Death as Lores for HE but Heavens is my go-to-lore for my gunline lists usually. Iceshard and Comet help deal with other 'better' gunlines to help even the odds. A well timed and placed comet can halt an advance so we can get in another precious round of shooting. I described the gunline benefits of HC already. If you are castled, enemy units need to bunch together as they close so chain lighting can add to the ranged damage.
I like Heavens a lot but Lores that in some way effect Strength and/or Toughness tend to be much more popular and win the day. Heavens is also lacking a Nuke spell that can be a game changer.
Re: Lore of Heavens
I can only say that SM buffed to being hit on 5+ with reroll any 6 are annoying to get rid off. I managed to get off this combo a few times now.
Re: Lore of Heavens
I really like heavens, but it is just so random. The other thing to remember is that the spells don't do much damage. Comet is your only option to do significant damage to a single unit and even then its a bit iffy. 2xD6 S-5 sounds good, but it doesn't do much to a horde of spears or other cheap infantry.
"Luck is the residue of design"
Re: Lore of Heavens
In my meta (my enemys are mainly dwarfs and doc, with sometimes goblins and vampires) i love heaven, especially as a secondary mage lore. Blizzard 48" is just great to annoy all their warmachines and shooty stuff and seriously hamper their damage output.
And, if you are lucky, you can get harmonic convergence to bubble your quadruple spearthrower battery
As main lore on the Archmage with book i tend to take life or high magic. Life for the really strong flesh to stone and some combatrezzes or high magic for the movement and conflagrantion-style "burn them all".
Which one i choose is mainly decided by the choice, if the archmage rides with the silverhelmbus (then it's life mostly) or walks around with some PG-Bodyguards (then it's high).
And, if you are lucky, you can get harmonic convergence to bubble your quadruple spearthrower battery
As main lore on the Archmage with book i tend to take life or high magic. Life for the really strong flesh to stone and some combatrezzes or high magic for the movement and conflagrantion-style "burn them all".
Which one i choose is mainly decided by the choice, if the archmage rides with the silverhelmbus (then it's life mostly) or walks around with some PG-Bodyguards (then it's high).
Re: Lore of Heavens
I've been using the Lore of Heavens more and more recently.
Each spell has a good purpose. I particularly like comet of cassandora, not just because it hits the enemy (and self if you're not careful) quite hard, but that you can use it to dictate the enemy's movement. You can also use it to draw out dispel scroll early in the game.
I use the lore with both my High Elves and my Lizardmen (more on the lizzies).
Each spell has a good purpose. I particularly like comet of cassandora, not just because it hits the enemy (and self if you're not careful) quite hard, but that you can use it to dictate the enemy's movement. You can also use it to draw out dispel scroll early in the game.
I use the lore with both my High Elves and my Lizardmen (more on the lizzies).
Regards,
Brad
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Brad
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