How to beat WOC

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Scarano
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How to beat WOC

#1 Post by Scarano »

Hey chaps, didn't know if this was the right place to put this. So Admin please move if in the wrong place.
I'm new to the game, my main opponents (good friends) will be Dwarfs, Empire and WOC.
Dwarfs and Empire I'm not all that concerned about, but the WOC player likes to take dirty lists.
He is currently painting a second Demond Prince, now this is going on what I've heard and read.... That they are hard.
I've played them twice with his Dwarf army and it just seem like there is nothing I can do (newbie aside) even him telling me good match up ect.

But me being a newbie aside.

Anyone got any tips on dealing with hard hitting WOC armies or any army really, using the HE.
Good match up, magic that nurfs them a little?


Thanks all :D
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Prince of Spires
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Re: How to beat WOC

#2 Post by Prince of Spires »

Moved to the tactics forum
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Sackree
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Re: How to beat WOC

#3 Post by Sackree »

Do you have a full list of his for us to comment on?

As for the Demon Prince I think they are a lot less scary now then when the first book came out. Once he drops his DP on the table place 4 RBT's on your side of the field and watch as he hides it for the rest of the game =]
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Danidude
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Re: How to beat WOC

#4 Post by Danidude »

Sackree wrote:Do you have a full list of his for us to comment on?

As for the Demon Prince I think they are a lot less scary now then when the first book came out. Once he drops his DP on the table place 4 RBT's on your side of the field and watch as he hides it for the rest of the game =]
A tip for using the RBTs, if he do not hide his DP, use small arms fire to ping off charmed shield in case he has that. If you do not have that, use the first RBT to fire 6 small bolts first at him to get rid of it, then the other 3 to fire singel bolts. This is probebly the best bet to take him down. Also using BOTWD in a unit that can threatned him as his attacks are magical far as I remember, the banner also protects you from the hellcannon as its shots are magical.

Most likly will you be out gunning him if you have 4 RBTs so sit back and lett him come to you then. Also place the RBTs with about 10" apart so he can not overrun from one to another easly.

That is probebly the best tip I can give you with out more information about both yours and his lists :)
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pk-ng
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Re: How to beat WOC

#5 Post by pk-ng »

Light Council in a unit of White Lions with Banner of World Dragon with 4 RBT. I'd like to see him come to you...good luck if he survives!
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VonSchlosser
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Re: How to beat WOC

#6 Post by VonSchlosser »

Btw. Dont count empire out. I have lost severel times to a empire player i know. Actually i have lost more to the empire than woc.
Scarano
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Re: How to beat WOC

#7 Post by Scarano »

Thank you for the advice chaps, I will try and get a list off him, (sneaky sneaky).
The good news is, I am running 4x RBT and white lions with BOTWD :D.

I also have a silver helm bus with a tooled up Prince, whom I told will give big gribbleys a run for their money.

VonSchlosser wrote:Btw. Dont count empire out. I have lost severel times to a empire player i know. Actually i have lost more to the empire than woc.
Haha, I am not counting empire out, just the player lol (he's a good mate, so he won't mind my saying).
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Rexhavoc
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Re: How to beat WOC

#8 Post by Rexhavoc »

I play vs filthy point n click WoC armies often. Seems that you can't swing a stick without hitting "That" list. Though it is much better now than it was a few years back.
Everyone has given great advice so far.
Some of my hard lessons learned are:
- Daemon Prince - focus fire and hope you drop him early with RBT's. he will play evasion from your PG (they tend to not give up enough wounds for Soulfeeder) and BoWD units and go for cover from your RBT's. He'll rush into CC ASAP with a weaker unit where he can get lots of kills. He has an ability called Soulfeeder where he can heal back wounds by making kills. Use this to your advantage. Any half decent WoC player will never ever let his DP get into CC with your BoWD unit. Since most DP's have flight it is almost impossible to lock him into CC. Try to trap him. A wounded DP will go for your archers or spearmen to wrack up wounds for Soulfeeder. Set your trap around these units.
- as someone mentioned....always knock the charmed shield off the DP so you don't waste a RBT shot.
- the DP is usually all over the board and frequently leaves units outside of his leadership bubble. Be on the lookout for units u can try to panic off the board. I 'v seen a 50 pt unit of Dogs panic from shooting and cause a warrior block to panic flee off the table.

- unkillable BSB on a daemonic mount! - I hate this guy more than the DP. 1+ Armor save and a 3++ ward with Reroll 1's. He only fails wards when he rolls a 2! He's high Str and Init so even the vortex spells don't work well. I either avoid him or I've had some luck with anything that forces Ward RR's like the other tricksters shard or banishment. Also searing doom helps.

- double Regen chimera's - can shoot off with RBT's but make sure u have at least a small unit of sisters to shoot off regen 1st. Careful with your use of the flaming banner with WoC. The DP frequently slips in a 2++ vs flaming.

- Skullcrushers: many lists will have 2 units of 3. Absolutely brutal with the 1+ AR. Chaff these guys up. Our WL's with the banner can take them since they run ensorceled WP's usually but they will eat up everything else. PG will do ok with the razor standard but still not great. FLANK these guys if you can. They are much weaker in the flank. LoMetal works well vs WoC and searing doom can really help to make these guys manageable.

There's more but this post is already too long :)
Scarano
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Re: How to beat WOC

#9 Post by Scarano »

Awesome insite ^^ thanks you very much pal. Ill be copying and pasting some of this good info into the notes on my phone.
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Eltherion2
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Re: How to beat WOC

#10 Post by Eltherion2 »

Don't forget to bait the Frenzied Skullcrushers away from real combats if he is using them.

Eagles and Reavers do this job nicely.
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Scarano
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Re: How to beat WOC

#11 Post by Scarano »

Well been as I a am converting some skull crushers for him atm. I can assume he will be using them.
I have plenty of reavers on my list for some redirections.

Thanks you
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Scarano
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Re: How to beat WOC

#12 Post by Scarano »

So I cheekily squeezes this out of him,

Lords - either tooled up daemon prince or wizard lord - heros bsb & maybe throgg if trolls for core, normally x2 units of nurgle warriors or swap one out for 9 trolls (throgg), special - x2 gore beast chariots, either knights or chimera, rare - giant or hell cannon & 3 skull crushers

^ this is his usual.

Ulthuan list

Archmage
+ Book of Hoeth
+ Talisman of Preservation
+ Level 4 Wizard
+ Lore of Heavens
= 320

Prince
+ Giant Blade
+ Shield
+ Dragonhelm
+ Dawnstone
+ Dragon armour
+ Elven Steed
+ Ithilmar barding
= 282

Noble
+ Ogre Blade
+ Shield
+ Luckstone
+ Dragon armour
+ Battle Standard
+ Elven Steed
+ Ithilmar barding
= 170

Mage
+ Dispel Scroll
= 110

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ bows
+ musician
= 95

13 Silver Helms
+ shields
+ musician
+ standard bearer
= 319

24 White Lions of Chrace
+ Guardian
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Banner of the World Dragon
= 392

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
= 280

Frostheart Phoenix

2,398 points


This is the list I'm building ^^^

Change anyone thoughts?

Mod Edit

Please don't post individual points costs, per forum rules.

SA
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Rexhavoc
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Re: How to beat WOC

#13 Post by Rexhavoc »

That's a pretty solid list IMHO. Well rounded too so you are not going to get any eye rolling when u put this list down on the table. :)
Well if your opponent goes with the non-Throgg version of his list I applaud him for not going full point n click WoC list. A WoC player who actually takes Warriors of chaos? Who knew?

If you're not going for super competitive GT I think this list if fine. A few things you may struggle with this WoC list
- Regen! This is one of the big standouts. The chimera will have regen and if he takes Trolls you're going to have a hard time with them. A small unit of sisters would go a long way to remove regen so ur RBT's can go to work.
- WL's and Heavens - I may get flack for suggesting this since many HE players feel that WL's are an auto include but against an infantry/chariot heavy WoC list with ur SH/Prince bus and Frosty WL's may not synergies well. Especially since U are going with Heavens. Heavens is a great Lore and I take it with my semi gunline list but it doesn't pack the defense that WL's may need. U have ur SH's and frosty for hammers. U may need a better anvil. If u are sticking with a single infantry block with heavens I'd take PG over the WL's. Boost ur caddy to level 2 of high magic and u have a decent chance of getting ur PG and lev4 to a 3++. If u go with high or Life magic on ur lev4 then I may keep the WL's. WL's are great but if u get caught without buffs those Nurgrle warriors are going to carve them up. PG perform much better vs WoC infantry unbuffed. PG will struggle vs 1+AR and monsters but this list has only one chimera and one unit of skull crushers.
Others may disagree but that's my 2cents
Ether Dude
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Re: How to beat WOC

#14 Post by Ether Dude »

I'd dismount the mage lord or make it a life mage. You can cut the lvl 2 and fit in 5 sisters and 3 more white lions.

As for cookie cutter vs cookie cutter, you should be fine. Point your bus at anything without magical attacks and the lions at anything with magical attacks. Don't throw the bus at trolls. Combo charge of frosty and WL should do ok seeing the trolls off. Be sure to challenge out Throgg with your unit champion. (Bonus points if you raise him back up with life magic).
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