What are high elves uniquely good at?

[Ferny]

So inspired by some of the talk about optimisation (oddly, spinning off from the "is the cav bus dead" thread) I was wondering: what are high elves uniquely good at?

What can we do better than any other army? For deathstars you're maybe looking ogres. For fast and in your face WoC. For BS shooty WE and for war machines dwarfs/CD/empire. For troop spam with toys O&G/Skaven. Where do high elves fit in to this? Where do we outclass other armies?

[Nightwing]

I'd say control of the movement phase, and combined arms.

[Cold Phoenix]

One thing that always amazes me with High Elves is how good our infantry are at applying force in a limited frontage. Between high I, WS, ASF, 20mm bases and Martial Prowess, we can put out lots of accurate attacks from a unit which is 7-8 models wide. This helps when making combined charges, but is also good for movement, because our smaller infantry blocks can wheel more easily.

[Tethlis]

-Making entire units hard to kill: Phoenix Guard, Banner of the World Dragon, High Magic Lore Attribute, Frost Phoenix
-Magic Phase Control, especially defense: Knows all the lores, is the only army that runs High Magic uniquely well, Book of Hoeth and Banner of the World Dragon for huge defense.
-Ballistic Skill based shooting: Wood Elves do it well, but I'm not actually convinced it's the best. Having access to Strength 4, Strength 6, and Strength 8 shooting is often a considerable advantage over Strength 3 + Special Rules
-Winning the chaff war: Core Fast Cavalry, Core Movement 9 Heavy Cavalry, Core longbows, Magical Flaming non-character shooting versus Ethereals and Regenerating units.

[Eirik]

Strength 3

[Prince of Spires]

If you want unique and good, then the following come to mind:
- Frostheart phoenix: best support monster in the game. Hands down.
- Book of Hoeth: Best arcane item
- Banner of the World Dragon: best magic protection for the price
- Redirecting / chaff: Eagles are still one of the best units in the game for this, but they are topped by core fast cav. And if needed we even have shadow warriors. If we want, we can keep a unit out of the whole game.

Other then those I would actually say that the strength of HE is not that we are best at something, but that we do everything above average. We're not the best magic users (though the Book is great), we don't have the best infantry that just rolls over everything or cavalry or shooting. But all those perform above average. Which in the end means that a combined arms list in the right hands performs above average. It will suffer in some areas vs different opponents, but the other strengths of the list make up for it.

Rod

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

I second Rod on his description. I think HE, regardless of the army list, have a potential to actively participate in each phase of the game and it is the combination of them all that is unique and provides a player with quite varied toolbox. You can focus more on one aspect in terms of army list building or you can do so depending on the enemy and play to your particular strengths in that match up while having the means to minimize his.

Cheers!

[Curu Olannon]

Moved to tactics.

What we are good at, regardless of what type of army you choose, is force concentration. Every strong High Elf list I have seen is good at delivering X points of hurt onto an enemy unit worth X/2 points or less. We have many ways of doing this, from the obvious frontal charge of the Star Dragon + Frostheart to the more intricate combined combats involving elite infantry + supporting cavalry and spells in assistance. Our unit choices, lore access and special rules (asf, martial prowess) further enhance this feel.

We are not the best at board control. DE and LZ do it way better than us for example. Now some HE lists have pretty good board control in certain matchups (Star Dragon springs to mind), but their board control shrinks drastically once you introduce war machines.

We are inherently a glass cannon army, and unlike DE we cannot tool our characters to counteract this fact. We do however have access to a number of choices which helps us in certain areas, for example the vital BOTWD. We also have a significant presence in our non-optimal fields, for example we have decent mobility, decent chaff-clearing, decent magical offense (while BoH is good it's not as powerful as the Herdstone or Casket of Souls) etc. I think rod captured this aspect nicely:

Other then those I would actually say that the strength of HE is not that we are best at something, but that we do everything above average.

Amen to that! Of course this is very generic and specifics are hard to determine all the while you're not evaluating a certain list, it will remain so.

Oh and lastly, this made me chuckle:

Strength 3

[cptcosmic]

HE are jack of all trades, they are above average in every phase with the obvious drawback of S3 & T3 to compensate.

I also like how you can do very nice themed armies with HE.

[ZT Strike]

I have no answer to this question as for every other army that I can think of can do what we do, we just do it all well.

[Curu Olannon]

I have no answer to this question as for every other army that I can think of can do what we do, we just do it all well.

I dare say that no other army in Warhammer is as good as we are at force concentration, be it in combat or at a distance. I have had countless games where I have been able to bring 1300+ points to bear on a single, important enemy unit. Other fractions cannot do this as well as us, unless they take a deathstar (which is besides the point as a deathstar is inherently hard to bring to bear on the units you want it to attack). I challenge you to present an army that is better at force concentration than we are

[MartinElf]

High Elves,

are a jack of all trade army, which does have its downsides, as we are not the best at anything. but the top 3 in most things .

Movement - is a really hard one to actually rank, however with movement 5 troop are slowest, and access to movement 9 cav, and lots of flyers, this truely is the ace in are pack.

Magic, as already stated we have the best magic item in the game. however, are own high lore, while it is really good, lacks compared to others in my own opinion think dark magic, and daemon and warrior own lores, are better.. ( except maybe slannesh )

shooting - we were the kings of this, until the new dark elf and wood elf books came out, and knocked us off are perch as top elf !!... dwarfs and empire do artillery far better then we do, but are all around shooting is far more effective.

Combat - i do think we are one of the very few armies in warhammer, where we have 5 really outstanding combat options, Helm Bus, Dragon Bus, white lions, swordmasters, phoniex guard, all have a role and all have a really strong use.... plus as stated chuck in the best dragon, and the best supporting monster in the game for good measure.

[Eirik]

I challenge you to present an army that is better at force concentration than we are

Maybe skaven. They can bring a lot of artillery, magic item one-shots, destructive magic and troops down on one point at a time. The doomwheel can put an insane number of wounds on a single monster in a turn, and they can hold something down with a unit of 50 slaves all while still firing at it.

[Bashtrigger]

Not to mention we have a lot of options to turn out a lot of high strength attacks with high initiative in a small frontage (the last having already been mentioned ofcourse) which gives us the unique advantage to deal a ton of damage with few return attacks. Then add in a lot of options to influence that combat even more to our favor (decent shooting, access to all BRB lores and high movement) we can fight our combats in a true chirugeon fashion, cutting away at what we wish to remove with cutthroat precision while keeping away the things you don't wish to deal with yet.

The downside being that our knifes are fragile things and need to be taken care of.

[bloody nunchucks]

I would say we excel at:

-bringing a lot of points/force to bear at once, usually deciding the game in one critical turn. I love when around turn four i finally get the fight that has been in the making all game. my white lions front charging something, while my silver helms crash into the side, while my archmage de-buffs the crap out of the enemy unit.

-re-directing and chaff. reavers and eagles make us one of the best in the game at the game of deployment, re-directing and the chaff war.

-the magic phase. we are not the best at any single part (anti-magic, dmg, buffing, de-buffing) but we can participate in all the phases, which no one else can say.

-our frost phoenix is the envy of every army. the fact that it is comped so heavily sucks and is unfair but what are you going to do

-elite troops. i say that we have the best. yes we are easy to hurt on paper but with the right items and care (chaff/fights/deployment) its easy to make a case for them being some of the best in the game.

[Rabidnid]

The only thing they are uniquely good at is prancing around in long dresses and hair flips. They can do combined arms and movement control as well as DE and now WE, and have some nice monsters rather like DE. With the new book and the loss of magic items our massive magic phase is gone, but the overall balance and effectiveness of the army is improved.

[Rexhavoc]

What about elite infantry?
I'm sure I'll regret asking but what infantry would you rate above Phoenix Guard for the price? Warriors of Chaos are more expensive and I've never lost a match up vs them with my PG. They are not the biggest damage dealers but ASF with I6, Str4, attacking in 3 ranks is nothing to sneeze at. Combine that with great durability and they are a force to fear. One 45-50 point banner and a single high magic spell later and they are a nightmare. How many other infantry could win combat vs an ASF block of spears striking at Str9 from mindrazor? I've stood up to a kalida (spelling?) TK Death Star and took 3-5 casualties each magic boosted volley. Even their reputation helps as many opponents don't even bother with shooting at them or using magic missiles. They see it as a waste (vortex spells still an issue). If you are able to spell buff them or use regrowth and it gets even better.
Like all units out there they have a weakness like crazy high armor but so do a lot of units. If u look at them as a whole I can't think of any other infantry I'd rather take for the cost.

For a multi-role/Anvil Elite infantry I think HE take it with the PG. They don't cover every role so they won't win a game by themselves but they pull way more than their weight. Maybe I'm just lucky with ward saves but I never leave home without them.

[Bashtrigger]

Phoenix Guard are definately unique with their 4+ ward save (though Savage Orcs with Shrunken Head get close), and they're definately strong, especially with High Magic attribute.

[Curu Olannon]

Units competing with PG for flexibility: Witchelves, Stormvermin, Plaguebearers. I don't think PG are superior to any of these, given their respective contexts (e.g. we getting cauldron etc)

[Irishranger]

Strong magic items.
There is no magic item in the game that comes even close to the banner even disregarding price. Add in the book which is still probably in the top 5 items and the golden crown and shield of the myrwyrm both of which provide excellent protection for the price. Star lance and reaver bow are the only book weapons that are in anyway common bar the demon gifts.

These combine with our units to allow us to add more staying power and/or hitting power to our elites. The real strength of the army is probably in the synergy but that works differently for every list and is hard enough to pin down for a single good list.

[Rexhavoc]

Units competing with PG for flexibility: Witchelves, Stormvermin, Plaguebearers. I don't think PG are superior to any of these, given their respective contexts (e.g. we getting cauldron etc)

Plaguebearers have a shot I'll give you that but Witchelves and Stormvermin? The Witchelves are some of the biggest one trick ponies in the game. They require the cauldron (and special characters at times) for any staying power and better offense. They also need at least 30 and almost always in horde formation. They die in droves to any shooting and they are all done if you can flank them. They are powerful but flexible does not come to mind. Your now bringing this to a level of comparing infantry combined with other buffing units. Straight up PG vs straight up WE's in versatility and multi-role usefulness there is no contest in my opinion. Same with Stormvermin. Comparing Stormvermin buffed with every character and banner you can to naked PG then ok but the PG is a unit you can drop in naked if you needed to and they still are hugely useful. Compare your buffed SV vs PG with a 3++ High magic boost, Wyssan's from a lev1 in the unit and the BoWD then. Every army has a ton of buffing options. If we go down that road we could go back and forth with 'what if' until we're blue in the face. The very fact that these 3 infantry units are dependent on specific sizes, formations and the buffs of other units, characters, banners, and items is what makes them inflexible. PG are good to go as is or you could buff the hell out of them too. Damn we don't even bother giving them the BoWD because it's overkill on the stock unit.
You make a good point but I still wouldn't trade any of those 3 units for our PG.