Double Phoenix or no phoenix?

[Andros123]

Hi there.

I'm putting together a list for an upcoming tournament. I have one frost heart phoenix, which we all know, kicks arse! However, I can't help but thinking that the bird is awfully exposed to cannons and other warmachines when it's brothers in arms are consisting of some helms, PG's, Bolt Throwers, archers, Reavers and the like.
It just seems to me, that to use the Phoenix competitively, you should bring another one, or at least a prince/noble on a griffon supported with some other fast units.

What's your take on this guys?

[John Rainbow]

In general I would agree though it is meta/comp dependent. I wouldn't usually suggest a Prince on a griffon though either as the griffon is too easy to kill.

[Bashtrigger]

Target saturation always makes units that are vulnerable more powerfull, but I wouldn't say you need to take 2 of them. It's a bonus if you can fit two in (not just target saturation, also because of redundancy)

One of the stronger lists out there is a flying circus of a Star Dragon, a Dragonmage, 2 FP and some other fast stuff. It'll present your opponent with tough choices.

[Andros123]

Thanks for the response first of all.

I've been playing with a single phoenix in a good amount of games, and overall it has been doing fine. I just have problems in assessing, whether the points would be better spend in a unit of, let say, white lions, which is rock solid. It is after all a lot of points.

I usually play a defensive style, therefor the phoenix stays back, and if able, combo charge with my silver helms to benefit from the -1s to the opponent.

[Curu Olannon]

The problem with double phoenix is that you inherently lose board control and flexibility as you can no longer fit in RBTs. This means that if you want to play this, you need to go all-in. I`d say this includes a Star Dragon and Silver Helm bus and either a Noble on Griffon in addition to BOTWD BSB or double Nobles with Silver Helms.

Alternatively there are lots of builds with 1 frostheart that work just fine

[Andros123]

The problem with double phoenix is that you inherently lose board control and flexibility as you can no longer fit in RBTs.

I agree. I know, that a lot of people here don't like RBT, but I would say that in a all comers list, they are auto includes. Forget about how good or bad they hit, but most importantly they prevent your opponent from doing whatever he likes with his monsters and chariots.

[Viale]

Like others have pointed out I think one phoenix can manage fine if you have other things that present just as credible threats: Mounted lord with lots of Silver Helms, a large unit Dragon Princes, heroes/lords on monsters and so on.

Another possible solution to keeping one phoenix alive could be 2*5 or 1*10 shadow warriors scouting in position to charge the threatening cannon/warmachine the following turn, thereby giving it only one turn to make its shot. Ellyrian Reavers/eagles could probably do the same.

[Toledo Inquisition]

The problem with double phoenix is that you inherently lose board control and flexibility as you can no longer fit in RBTs. This means that if you want to play this, you need to go all-in. I`d say this includes a Star Dragon and Silver Helm bus and either a Noble on Griffon in addition to BOTWD BSB or double Nobles with Silver Helms.

Alternatively there are lots of builds with 1 frostheart that work just fine

Got to go all in - I'm taking the Stardragon, Caradryan and Ashtari, and two Frosties to another 3000 point tournament in a couple weeks. I'll let you all know how it does.

[HugoMac]

Got to go all in - I'm taking the Stardragon, Caradryan and Ashtari, and two Frosties to another 3000 point tournament in a couple weeks. I'll let you all know how it does.

Awesome! Please remember to tell us how it went!

[Toledo Inquisition]

Got to go all in - I'm taking the Stardragon, Caradryan and Ashtari, and two Frosties to another 3000 point tournament in a couple weeks. I'll let you all know how it does.

Awesome! Please remember to tell us how it went!

I've had good luck with this list - went 3-0 at Adepticon with it, and 4-1 with it at Screw City last year (this list had spears instead of block of 10 Silver Helms). I'll be disappointed if I don't go 3-2 at least.

I have more fun in the movement phase than magic/shooting in general, so this is the kind of list I like to play. Well, I do like fighty characters and mean monsters too.

[Sackree]

I took double phoenix to NatCon in NZ over Easter, which was a 3 day, 8 game event and placed 3rd.

I did miss the presence of RBT's greatly though, I absolutely believe they are vital for balanced lists.
My advice if you do want to take double phoenix is to take a lore that compensates. I took the lore of heavens for its long range high strength missiles as well as harmonic which goes great with WL's and silver helms.