How would you equip an archmage on a dragon?

[Nightwing]

As the title says, taken in isolation (ie please no responses of 'depends on your list') how would you equip an archmage on a dragon (any size) and which lore and why? Assume the list is 2400 or 3000, these are the size of games I usually end up playing.

Thanks in advance

[spearman]

Lores of life and high are great for survivability and getting a ward/regen on your dragon. Lore of death also worth considering for short range snipes and purple sun. However, I use lore of beasts with mine as it synergizes well with my list. Fly to set up favourable positions for flank amber spear is also good fun. As for equipment, I run 4+ ward and dispel scroll only as I don't have enough points for book of hoeth. If I did, book and 4+ ward would be best in my opinion. If you run high magic, it would be worth getting ironcurse icon as well, but you'd have to drop the 4+ ward for a 5+ ward to fit it in.

[Eltherion2]

As mentioned High, Life or Death.

Either Talisman Preservation and Iron Curse Icon to help protect Dragon which gets improved by High Magic lore attribute.

or MR3 and Iron Curse Icon

[Curu Olannon]

I don`t understand why you`d want to view this in isolation. Lores and items depend on your strategy, which again depends on your list. Are you playing shooty-avoidance? Chances are you need someone to rake in the big kills. Death would be a good choice for example and Purple Sun can really benefit from the fly move as well. Are you playing combat-heavy? The Archmage needs all the help he can get and Beasts is a good starting point. Are you playing combined-arms with significant shooting? Shadow is a strong bet.

I can`t really advice an isolation build. I think that placing an Archmage on a Dragon in the first place is a poor choice, unless you`re doing it for fluff reasons. As for items, I`d say BoH and 4++ is a good starting point, but again it depends on what you want.

[THRILLHELM]

Having played a large amount of Mage on dragon (at 2400) over the past 5-6 months I do agree with Curu in that it is largely a fluff choice UNLESS you play in a fairly comped environment (like myself).

Curu also makes a very solid point about viewing it in isolation. The list plays a huge factor in determining how you want to run the mage. I found the most success with level 4 death on a moon dragon with 4++, khaine's ring and ironcurse icon combined with archer + reaver core, frosty, 4 RBTs and some shadow warriors. Heroes are where I think you can have a lot of fun with this list, A huge temptation of mine, although I never actually tested it, was to run double griffon noble, abusing the fact that your magic needs are taken up by the lord slot. A more effective build overall I found (shamelessly stolen from Aaron Graham's 2013 ETC list) was running a Dragon mage combined with an eagle BSB. There's obviously many ways to fiddle with that combo but I really think that T1 boosted fireball is SO handy for threatening warmachines which are obviously one of the big counters to this list.

In regards to the lore choice and why I pick death, the lore is already insanely powerful but, like Curu hinted at, the mobility provided by a dragon (which you can also get from an eagle with BoH in there too) makes every single spell you roll (apart from the fear one) a threat from turn one. Khaine's ring is more of a gimmick choice I run to cheekily 1 dice at the end/start of the phase to boost the ward saves, realistically a dispel scroll is probably the more powerful option.

I'm kind of on the star dragon bandwagon at the moment though so haven't been playing much of the above lately. Although maybe I should try a level 3 on star dragon...

[Prince of Spires]

I sort of can understand the idea of viewing it in isolation. Given the amount of points spend on it and the fact that he will be your general, your choices for the rest of your army will probably follow from your choice for archmage + kit.

As for dragon, I would probably go big, so star dragon. If you can find the points that is. Decent chance of your AM dying before the end of the game and then the SD has the most use. Also, you will want to keep any combats as short as possible, so the extra S and attack from the SD make a difference there. If you can't find the points for the star dragon, then the dragon ends up being a support choice anyway and so I would go for a Sun dragon as second choice.

As for Kit, I think the talisman of preservation is pretty much a given. You need that 4+ ward save. Even high magic is not an option, since you should probably assume that you will have 1 magic phase with weak winds and 1 scroll phase meaning 2 phases with 1 spell cast max. That's nice if you go from 4+ to 3+ ward, not if you suddenly only have a 6+ ward on your AM.

Leaves 55 points. The book is always a good choice. You could also go for defensive stuff. So Golden crown, potion of toughness, ring of fury (for the extra ward), that sort of thing. If you want to go for unusual and fun, you could look at magical weapons. Reaver bow or star lance could do some interesting things.

Magic lore wise, you're probably looking at a lore that helps the AM the most. So lore of beasts, life or high I would say.

Rod

[THRILLHELM]

At 2400 Star Dragon level 3 leaves only 25 points. Great for a scroll or Khaine's Ring but at only level 3.

I disagree that the dragon is a support choice (which is why I run the moon). It serves multiple roles, especially in the shooty avoidance list by being a hugely reliable points earner, especially in the last 2 turns of the game after magic and shooting has done its work. If magic and shooting hasn't done its work then the dragon flies away, or hunts smaller backline units it can reliable beat/break/stomp. It is also a huge boon to be able to blow your mage up (which happens to me a fair bit as I believe this set up can, at times, warrant a fairly reckless casting strategy) and A) still have the points for it and B) all of a sudden have a very powerful monster that has very little issue with charging into combats without a mage to worry about keeping alive.

[theviking]

I've never run a dragon archmage, so take that for what it's worth. I'd probably start with L4 on high, 5+ ward, ring of fury, power stone. Moon dragon at 2400, star at 3000. I might find myself migrating to life and scroll, depending on how often the archmage/dragon died and if I had a scroll caddy or not.

[Dalamar]

Book of hoeth, talisman of endurance, ironcurse icon and high magic.

Make people cry trying to shoot down a 3++ dragon after a couple spells.

[John Rainbow]

BoH, 4++, done. I can't see any other kite getting much mileage although you could argue for a scroll and some other defensive items maybe.

Although as Curu says the AM on Dragon is generally a poor choice in terms of competitive builds. I think you would get a lot more mileage out of an Eagle mount (same kit) as you gain the mobility and (minor) stat boost which you don't get with the dragon and won't...

a) get the AM killed as soon as you get to CC
b) waste the 300ish point dragon in simply providing M10

[pk-ng]

I think that placing an Archmage on a Dragon in the first place is a poor choice, unless you`re doing it for fluff reasons. As for items, I`d say BoH and 4++ is a good starting point, but again it depends on what you want.

AM on Moon Dragon - Death ToP ICI Scroll
Dragon Mage
Chaff
Other stuff
RBT

This list has won big tournaments in Australia...not bad for a poor choice ?

[Curu Olannon]

I think that placing an Archmage on a Dragon in the first place is a poor choice, unless you`re doing it for fluff reasons. As for items, I`d say BoH and 4++ is a good starting point, but again it depends on what you want.

AM on Moon Dragon - Death ToP ICI Scroll
Dragon Mage
Chaff
Other stuff
RBT

This list has won big tournaments in Australia...not bad for a poor choice ?

Link? I know Australia tried such a list at ETC last year, it failed pretty hard.

[THRILLHELM]

I'm fairly sure that list was one of the big point getters of the team actually. I'm not 100% as it was last year but I think he only dropped one game, which admittedly was a huge loss.

[Prince of Spires]

This list has won big tournaments in Australia...not bad for a poor choice ?

pretty impressive result.

I think the list you posted is a bit a "rock-paper-scissors" list. 2 dragons, highly mobile mages and probably few other things to easily take points off can do very well against certain lists. If you're not set up to deal with flying monsters and fast units then this list will just run circles around you. On the other hand, if you do have a list that can easily deal with flying monsters then it can quickly be game over (mainly thinking lots of cannons here).

From that perspective, it is probably a comp and meta dependent list.

Rod

[Curu Olannon]

I'm fairly sure that list was one of the big point getters of the team actually. I'm not 100% as it was last year but I think he only dropped one game, which admittedly was a huge loss.

My bad, I got him confused with someone else! He ended up on 70 points (5th best HE), which is quite good. Considering Australia`s overall placement though, perhaps they tried too hard to give him good matchups? Anyways, here`s the list he took:

Aaron Graham, High Elves
Archmage on Moon Dragon: General, Level 4, Death, Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon, 595
Noble on Great Eagle: BSB, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade, 200
Dragonmage: Level 2, Fire, Dragon Armour, Charmed Shield, 400
3x 10 Archers: Musician, 110
15 Archers: Musician, 160
5 Silver Helms: Musician, Shields, 125
4x Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers: 70
5 Sisters of Avelorn: 70
1 Frostheart Phoenix: 240
Total: 2400

[THRILLHELM]

It is possible but the rest of the team had pretty out there lists too. 9 sepulchral stalkers stands out as one. He pretty much inspired the way I write my dragon lists. Also is a great guy.

EDIT: should probably mention he inspired my mage + dragon lists. My Star Dragon lists have cropped up from your blog mostly... and from Star Dragons being awesome

[Eltherion2]

Episode 25 of the Dwellers goes through the Australian Teams lists and games in more detail.
http://thedwellersbelow.com/

Its a shame he couldn't get the Golden Crown in the list, but very tight for points.

This HE list did pretty well in the end as far as Australia was concerned shame about Australia's overall placing .


On a side note I got 2nd place in a small Tourney using Double Dragon but I had a Star Dragon Prince and a Dragonmage. The list was very usable under Swedish Comp.
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60571


If running an Achmage on a Dragon I would try

Achmage LVl 4 Death,Talisman Preservation, Healing potion, Scroll Shielding (for Searing Dooms vs. Dragon).

[Findolfin]

Not a very practical builds but:

Beast magic, Fencer blades, crown, dispel scroll, pot of strength. Throw 6 dices at the big one for +3 st, +3 atk. Kill before being killed. Should be 5 ws10 st 9 attacks. If the dragon dies, repeat the process and change back into one for good fun.

[Nightwing]

Thanks everyone for the input.