Skycutters for Cav Support?

[Antheron]

I've not played much using Elves in 8th - my Dwarf army has seen much more regular service.

I used to have a great deal of success using chariots as support units for infantry (notably Spearmen - ranks + impact hits was very effective), but with the Skycutter's mobility there seems to be the chance to use a chariot as a support unit for Silver Helms.

I was wondering if anyone had had any success using Skycutters to support their cav units and what people had learnt if they'd tried it and failed.

[Nicene]

I think skycutters have great potential! Bear in mind that they cannot march.

[Antheron]

No marching; but they can ignore terrain and intervening units, as per regular fliers. With more cluttered battlefields in 8th, that seems to be key.

[Tethlis]

Discussion regarding Skycutters comes up every once in a while. Generally, they can be made to be functional if they're used in the context being described. For all their shortcomings, they're still highly mobile chariots that can contribute their impact hits across a small frontage, using Fly and long charge distance to provide reliable support.

I think the only question is whether or not this is an optimal use of points. It's not a bad use... But is it a great one? Many players don't think so, but I believe anything can be made to work for players who like them.

[de kaasboer]

In a list where you dont have to go all out attack with your cavalry (ie; where you have a decent shooting and magic phase), skycutters combine very well with both the cav bus (which could take a charge if needed), or min sized dragon prince/silver helm units.

i really like this combination of "tag team cav+ chariot" support in general, and used to combine dragon princes with tiranocs a lot for the following reason:
-both have long charge ranges of 9/10+ swiftstride.
-max models need to in combat, which will usually result in knights with the healthy 2+ save facing the brunt of the return attacks, whereas the chariot can often "clip" corner-to-corner while still adding full dmg output.

now with the skycutter you have the added advantage of flying (and some slighlty better stats). The major advantage this gives is, next to general movement flexibility, the fact that you can charge over units. The way this often comes to play for my "tag-teams" is that"
-they can't be chaffed: your opponent can not prevent you from charging his weak [insert random juicy target here] by putting a unit of harpies or fastcav in front of you knight/chariot combo, because that will result in the loss (or at least charge) of both the chaff unit by the cav, as well as the other unit by the chariot.
-the weak chariot can be protected from BS-based shooting. both during the normal shooting phases, as well as a possible stand and shoot, you can give opposing shooters a hard cover modifier when trying to hit the chariot.

if you run a character loaded silver helm bus, it can often be tactically worthwhile to receive a charge for the greater good of your battle plan. in this case a couple of skycutters safely lurking behind you main combat line provide a releiving support charge, freeing up the cav to get back to crushing the enemy lines. the flying ability again makes sure you will always be able to make it in, as long as there is frontage available.

I'm still debating the usefullness (or rather the usefullness vs points spent) of upgrading the skycutters with boltthrowers. in most of the above examples they will not get a lot out of the actual shooting these provide so i would say they are not worth the points. Then again the added "threat" of 2-3 more boltthrower shots in addition to the regular shooting can often force opponents into coming towards your lines and keeps single monster/cav characters honest (which is what keeps me from dropping the bolters most of the time)

anyway,

just my 2 cents.

cheers

[Curu Olannon]

I`ve never been a fan of any of our chariots, the Skycutter is no exception. I`ve tried them all and I simply find them to be too expensive, the points are just better spent elsewhere. I know some people like a single Tiranoc, but I haven`t seen anyone successfully playing either the Lion Chariot or the Skycutter.

[de kaasboer]

I`ve tried them all and I simply find them to be too expensive, the points are just better spent elsewhere.

I agree lion chariots are just too expensive, and i can see the point for upgraded skycutters. but for unupgraded skycutters and tiranocs; i do not see many other units in the 50-100 point price range which offer the flexibility in roles and movement these units offer. not only can the reliably clear chaff, threaten support units or combine with more beefy units to deliver concentrated damage output, but the free movement freedom they get means you quickly react to threats where an infantry unit or cavalry unit might be too cumbersome, and a unit of reavers or an eagle to "light" to pose any serious threat.

If i compare the points spent on a tiranoc or skycutter to comparable amounts of infantry or cavalry from out book, i certainly do not see them as "too expensive". The question (in my opinion) is rather whether you do want to spend more points on support units in addition to the (core) reavers and small silverhelms. I certainly do, but hey, i play MSU so flexibilty and battlefield control are key for my playstyle

cheers,

J

[SteVieBizzLe]

I have to side with HE chariots aren't great opinion. The lion chariot is too expensive, the skycutter seems great on paper but i think you are hoping for the stars to align to get them to work in the desired manner. Yes they can be effective, but so can seaguard and how often do we see those guys?

The tiranoc is the *most* usable IMO basically due to its low cost, if it was a core choice i think we would see a fair few of them, but they aren't so boo hoo.

95 points is alot in a book where our points are usually tight. 5 reavers with bows and a musician is the same points and probably a better choice. Like anything though, if you have the points and want to make it work, go ahead.